Prosthetic Conscience wrote:But here you are, still determined, over a month later, to make it into an attack on Trump supporters; while ignoring the total insanity several right wing posters showed in that thread of being desperate to link Paddock to Islam (he's a Muslim! He converted! His wife is a Muslim! He was Antifa!
Primarily noir. Yet, we still don't know what his motivation was at this point.
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:In actual fact, hardly anyone condemned the shooting explicitly - most of the people you name didn't, for instance. But that's because we do all assume that a massacre is obviously bad, whether we're on the left, right, or denying that labels are meaningful.
Right. However, the notion that all of the people on the right were responsible for Heather Heyer dying, or for starting the violence and so forth was total rubbish. That backfired very badly, because there were way too many witnesses. I don't know how it will all get sorted out. However, one of the ironies of the event is that left wingers looked up the driver's license plate, found the previous owner of the car and started sending death threats. The police told the previous owner to leave his home for his safety. Clearly, the left was on the war path.
That doesn't excuse violence on the right, but it does provide a rational explanation for what transpired. Take this for example: Bond again denied for suspect in Charlottesville Aug. 12 garage beating following Unite the Right rally
Assistant Commonwealth’s Attorney Nina Antony presented footage of the garage beating and pointed out the moment she said Ramos saw the attack happening and jumped in to participate.
As alt-right protesters moved up Market Street after an unlawful assembly was declared at Emancipation Park, counter protesters followed the group.
Ok. Are you following this? This is what people have been saying the whole time. Not everyone on the right was violent until they were first provoked. The police declared an unlawful assembly, and the Unite the Right people left. Then, they were followed by the Antifa and BLM folks. Even the Commonwealth's attorney has to stipulate to that because of the video footage. The left was looking for a fight and they got what they were looking for.
At one point, Antony said, Harold Cruz was carrying a flag and, as someone grabbed the flag away from him, a struggle ensued in front of the Market Street parking garage.
Ok. Now we have a robbery by the counter protesters. That's a criminal act. It's not ok to do that.
At that point, Harris appeared to swing a flashlight at Cruz and a group rushed at Harris and began beating him, Antony said.
Ok. Now we have aggravated assault, which is a felony by the counter protester Harris at Cruz. So what did the protesters do? They beat the counter protester who had committed felony aggravated assault.
As Harris scrambled backward into the parking garage, Antony said, the group followed him. As Harris lay curled up on the ground, the group continued to kick, punch and swing sticks at him — at which point, Antony said, Ramos can be seen jumping over people and striking Harris on his head and shoulders.
So who's fee fees are hurt now? They tried to take Cruz's flag, engaged in felony aggravated assault, and the protesters met the counter protester with what? The same thing. Felony aggravated assault. Who started it? The BLM/Antifa folks. It's on videotape. Who's getting prosecuted? The Hispanic "white supremacist."
A defenseless young man? That's how the prosecutor sees it? Really? He just committed a felony aggravated assault without any other provocation than the free expression of a view he didn't like. That is how a lot of this went down. More than a few of you on this board have plainly excused the initiation of violence against the Unite the Right protesters. In this instant case, the initial victims were Hispanic and were attacked by black protesters. When they kicked the black guy's ass for stealing Cruz's flag and hitting him with a flashlight, suddenly the black perpetrator became a defenseless victim.
So as I see it, the basic problem you have here is that the person who first robbed Cruz of his flag, and Harris, who committed aggravated assault on Cruz, will probably not get charged. Yet, Harris, who instigated a violent felony aggravated assault is now--boo hoohoohoo--a defenseless man undergoing a felony assault as a response to a felony assault he instigated without provocation himself. You do not have to agree with the Unite the Right protesters. Clearly, Mayor Singer does not. However, if you are going to prosecute people who respond to a felony assault with a felony assault after the police decide to allow things to devolve into a melee, you are only prosecuting one side of the equation when it is clearly a mutual combat at worst. That's not seen as fair to people who were otherwise behaving lawfully and leaving the scene as the police had asked them to do. They left the scene of what was previously a lawful assembly until the Antifa and BLM folks showed up.
If that doesn't make sense to you--and I'm not saying that it's agreeable to you--then you will probably not understand why someone like Ramos found sympathy in the community so that he could make bond. Yet, it was denied anyway.
Hannah Zarski, mother of five young children, said she and her husband were willing to host Ramos at their house if he was granted bond. She said she thought about hosting him after she attended one of his last court hearings and heard the judge say he would be more comfortable granting bond if Ramos had some tie to the community.
Since then, she and Ramos have spoken about a dozen times and she has talked to his roommate in Georgia to assess any risk to her own family. Ultimately, she said she felt comfortable having him live in her home.
Also, you should note that both Cruz and Ramos are Hispanic names. The left is in a constant battle trying to win over Hispanics and use them against whites, but they call Hispanics whites when they are charged with crimes against blacks and then play up the race card. So you can see why Hispanics are not necessarily going to be a lock for the Democratic Party in the same way that working class whites are no longer a lock for them. Identity politics is destroying the old coalition and the new one is too volatile to comprise a stable majority.
Prosthetic Conscience wrote: That thread has been second only to this one in displaying the complete hopelessness of discussing anything with you and your cohort of paranoid bigots.
It's not paranoia if they're out to get you... Honestly, if you really think neo-Nazis are bad, how does it make sense to walk around in the street while they're driving around you? If you believe they are dangerous, it makes sense to stay away from them. That didn't happen. The BLM/Antifa folks went looking for trouble, and they got it. No, that doesn't make violence other than lawful resistance acceptable. However, it does make it understandable, and you should spend at least some time reflecting on that fact in view of the many people here who think it is a-ok to initiative violence against people whose views they disagree with.