[foxdemon]

It dove tails nicely but why then all these terror attacks across Europe? Does this not greatly work against the cause of marrying the interests of central Europe with Islam? What went wrong there?

I explained this earlier in the thread. ISIS, and the section of Islam they represent, want to assert their authority over all Muslims. Attacking the West in Europe serves two purposes.

1/ it drives a wedge between modern Muslims and Europeans. This isolates a rival vision for the future of a Islam from their supporters.

2/ it shows who it is that other Muslims should be scared off and thus who they should obey.

The aim of ISIS is to recreate the Caliphate with themselves in control. Therefore they need to dominate other Muslims. That goal is central to their strategy. Jews and Christians are just targets to be converted, subjugated or destroyed.

[Rugoz]

If we look at the ideas of Shumei Okawa, we see a pan-Asianist. He contrasted the East with the West in terms of Asian universalism verses Western particularism. @anasawad is talking about different cultural outlooks. Shumei mean't something like 'wholism' versus 'reductionism' whereas contemporary Western universalism means asserting the one true belief over all others and then imposing it on all. Particularism, in contrast to that concept of universalism, means regional values. So we can identify humanism, liberalism and off shoot ideas like human rights, as being a vehicle for dominance, as it is intended to impose the one system of belief on all other beliefs on the grounds that Europeans have a universal truth that can be held superior to any other system of belief.

You mean Western universalism versus Asian particularism.

Contemporary Europeans, on the other hand, hold their beliefs to be universal and thus are not accepting of others. In fact, their exclusionary system of belief prevents them from understanding other cultures. It is a paradox that Western universalism expresses itself in multiculturalism where in neither the native culture nor the immigrant culture is respected.

First of all, it's pretty easy to think that way if you dominate the planet, economically, scientifically, culturally. Nowadays America is the best example of that. So maybe it's just hubris and not a particular cultural attribute. There's arguably also a disconnect between the people and the political elites in the West in that regard.

Yes, but who chose the immigration policy and why? Or more tellingly, why can't Europeans face the subject without either politically correct dogma or reactionary right wing vitriol? It seems there is tension and contradiction in European beliefs.

What you read on Pofo or in the social media from Westerners is hardly representative of what people think. Certainly not in Europe. I mean I never met a person in real life who had such strong opinions about some of the stuff that is debated here. Pofo is very surreal to me at times.

[Rich]

What you read on Pofo or in the social media from Westerners is hardly representative of what people think. Certainly not in Europe. I mean I never met a person in real life who had such strong opinions about some of the stuff that is debated here. Pofo is very surreal to me at times.

My Landlord is a flat earther. I meet increasing numbers of flat earthers. So the views of PoFo are quite mainstream and establishment orientated relative to my outside world. I'm not joking, being sarcastic, or talking in metaphor by the way, round here even David Ike's starting to seem "rational". I blame Bush for all the conspiracy theory mania. I mean him and Obama have been absolutely categorical that 9/11 wasn't done by Muslims, had nothing to do with Muslims (of course it was done by Muslims). But if wasn't, if it had nothing to do with Islam then the obvious question is who did do it.

Its time to recognise that Islamphillia is a hate ideology. It leads to ever more demented thinking. Even Noir engages in Islamophillia. Why do Muslims do evil things? Because Islam is Evil? No, no no never. Muslims only dislike Israel because evil WIGs(White Infidel Gentile) put ideas in their heads.

[noir]

Its time to recognise that Islamphillia is a hate ideology. It leads to ever more demented thinking. Even Noir engages in Islamophillia. Why do Muslims do evil things? Because Islam is Evil? No, no no never. Muslims only dislike Israel because evil WIGs(White Infidel Gentile) put ideas in their heads.

@Rich
You have a point. But who the hell are the Mussies without the oxigen carrier of the Western media and Western culture? They are nothing. The West created this mess. After the war most of the "guest" workers in the west were from southeren Europe and Turkey but under Euro Arab "dialogue", Europe agreed to allow these scum in. This is how we reached to this situation. The Arabs sould had been contained in their desert shit hole, instead they were pumpured and their cause become the most celebrated cause ever.

If a child falls into a lion cage, would you blame the lion or the zoo?

[noir]

The main quote is: If we won't fight, at the end of the century Europe will be part of the Arab world

[Pants-of-dog]

Anyone who is stupid enough to think that Europe will be Muslim or Arab by the end of the century is probably not smart enough to see Wilders for the racist attention whore that he is.

[noir]

Everything beyond Arabia peninsula was gained by expansion and colonization, yet today we call MENA the Arab territories. Only a century ago, much of these territories were composed mainly by Dhimmi indigenous and Muslim Settlers, but since the 20th century with their growing influence in the international bodies they succeeded to convey most of public opinion to hold these truths to be self-evident.

The background to the attack in Spain

[Pants-of-dog]

Everything beyond Arabia peninsula was gained by expansion and colonization, yet today we call MENA the Arab territories. Only a century ago, much of these territories were composed mainly by Dhimmi indigenous and Muslim Settlers, but since the 20th century with their growing influence in the international bodies they succeeded to convey most of public opinion to hold these truths to be self-evident.

The background to the attack in Spain

Do you have nay evidence to support your fear that Europe will be Arab by the end of the century?

[noir]

Bernard Lewis (age 101) is generally acknowledged as the greatest living historian of the Middle East, in an interview with German newspaper, Die Welt

'Europe Will Be Islamic by the End of the Century'

"Europe will be a part of the Arab West or Maghreb. "Migration and demography indicate this. Europeans marry late and have few or no children. But there's strong immigration: Turks in Germany, Arabs in France and Pakistanis in England. At the latest, following current trends, Europe will have Muslim majorities in the population at the end of the 21st century."


It said in the academic world, "What Bernard Lewis doesn't know about the Middle East isn't worth knowing."

[One Degree]

Almost all population growth in Western countries is from immigrants who themselves have a higher than replacement level birth rate. The end result is obvious if immigration is not stopped.

[Pants-of-dog]

Bernard Lewis (age 101) is generally acknowledged as the greatest living historian of the Middle East, in an interview with German newspaper, Die Welt

'Europe Will Be Islamic by the End of the Century'

"Europe will be a part of the Arab West or Maghreb. "Migration and demography indicate this. Europeans marry late and have few or no children. But there's strong immigration: Turks in Germany, Arabs in France and Pakistanis in England. At the latest, following current trends, Europe will have Muslim majorities in the population at the end of the 21st century."

It said in the academic world, "What Bernard Lewis doesn't know about the Middle East isn't worth knowing."

Provide a link to this interview. As far as I know, you could easily be taking these words out of context.

---------------

Almost all population growth in Western countries is from immigrants who themselves have a higher than replacement level birth rate. The end result is obvious if immigration is not stopped.

Again, I want evidence. Not your random fears.

[One Degree]

I have no interest in wasting my time playing that game. Anyone who has studied the problem is aware of these facts. They are readily available should you truly be interested in the truth.

[SolarCross]

Bernard Lewis (age 101) is generally acknowledged as the greatest living historian of the Middle East, in an interview with German newspaper, Die Welt

'Europe Will Be Islamic by the End of the Century'

"Europe will be a part of the Arab West or Maghreb. "Migration and demography indicate this. Europeans marry late and have few or no children. But there's strong immigration: Turks in Germany, Arabs in France and Pakistanis in England. At the latest, following current trends, Europe will have Muslim majorities in the population at the end of the 21st century."


It said in the academic world, "What Bernard Lewis doesn't know about the Middle East isn't worth knowing."

They can't match us militarily not by a long margin, since the industrial revolution we have left them in the dust for technology and industry, but through immigration they can beat us demographically, they can outbreed us and then out vote us.

So then we need a Reconquista 2.0, it is clear.

[noir]

Looking for tge original German source in Die Welt

https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article2 ... misch.html

Western paper quote

http://www.weeklystandard.com/islamic-e ... ticle/5901

Third world paper quote

http://archive.thedailystar.net/2004/10 ... 150196.htm

[ingliz]

The Daily Star

Tabloid shite - tits and lies.

It is the second time in little more than a week a UK newspaper has been found to have printed a misleading headline about the UK’s Muslim communities, following a recent ruling that a Sun front page headline, “One in five Brit Muslims’ sympathy for jihadis” was also significantly misleading.

edit:

Did you ninja edit that link?

[Pants-of-dog]

I have no interest in wasting my time playing that game. Anyone who has studied the problem is aware of these facts. They are readily available should you truly be interested in the truth.

So people who want evidence and facts to support arguments are wasting time and playing games. But people just randomly posting their fears is somehow professional and serious.

Lol.

----------------

The original German source in Die Welt

https://www.welt.de/print-welt/article2 ... misch.html

The words you quoted do not appear in that interview, even allowing for translation.

[One Degree]

So people who want evidence and facts to support arguments are wasting time and playing games. But people just randomly posting their fears is somehow professional and serious.

Lol.

----------------



The words you quoted do not appear in that interview, even allowing for translation.

I don't mind posting evidence if it is actually desired in a discussion. I have learned it is a waste of my time if it is just a diversion. I won't say my comments are immune from sourcing due to common knowledge, but anyone debating should be aware of these facts. Are you denying Western countries replacement birthrate averages near zero? Are you denying immigrants into these countries often have higher birth rates?

Edit: I used 'zero ' instead of the more correct 'two' because I thought it would lead to less confusion.

[noir]

http://maverickphilosopher.blogspot.co. ... lewis.html

From an Interview with Bernard Lewis
Here I translate, at the instigation of Kevin Kim, what to me is the most interesting portion of an interview with the famed Islamic scholar, Bernard Lewis. The interview was conducted by Wolfgang G. Schwanitz at Princeton University. The Interview appeared in Die Welt on 28 July 2004. The entire interview is available here.

"Europa wird am Ende des Jahrhunderts islamisch sein"
Der Islamforscher Bernard Lewis über den Zustand der arabischen Welt und warum die Herrscher Israel als Blitzableiter brauchen

DIE WELT: Wird die EU ein globales Gegengewicht zu Amerika bilden?

Lewis: Nein. Neben den Vereinigten Staaten werden künftig globale Spieler China, Indien und möglicherweise ein gesundetes Russland sein. Sicher weißß niemand, welcher Art die Macht in Moskau sein wird, aber gewiss nicht kommunistisch. Europa wird Teil des arabischen Westens sein, des Maghrebs. Dafür sprechen Migration und Demografie. Europääer heiraten spät und haben keine oder nur wenige Kinder. Aber es gibt die starke Immigration: Türken in Deutschland, Araber in Frankreich und Pakistaner in England. Diese heiraten früh und haben viele Kinder. Nach den aktuellen Trends wird Europa spätestens Ende des 21. Jahrhunderts muslimische Mehrheiten in der Bevölkerung haben.

The World: Will the EU form a global counterweight to America?

Lewis: No. Next to the United States, the future global players will be China, India, and possibly a healthy Russia. Surely no one knows what the dominant regime in Moscow will be, but it will certainly not be communist. Europe will be a part of the Arabian West. Migration and demographics point in that direction. Europeans marry late and have few children if they have any. But they allow heavy immigration: Turks into Germany, Arabs into France, and Pakistanis into England. These people marry young and have a lot of children. According to present trends, the population of Europe will contain Muslim majorities by the end of the 21st century at the very latest.

Mit Bernard Lewis sprach in Princeton Wolfgang G. Schwanitz

Artikel erschienen am 28.07.2004

http://www.trafoberlin.de/pdf-dateien/B ... 202004.pdf

[SolarCross]

Lewis: No. Next to the United States, the future global players will be China, India, and possibly a healthy Russia. Surely no one knows what the dominant regime in Moscow will be, but it will certainly not be communist. Europe will be a part of the Arabian West. Migration and demographics point in that direction. Europeans marry late and have few children if they have any. But they allow heavy immigration: Turks into Germany, Arabs into France, and Pakistanis into England. These people marry young and have a lot of children. According to present trends, the population of Europe will contain Muslim majorities by the end of the 21st century at the very latest.

This is a gloomy prediction but trends can be reversed if action is taken. I have started a thread to discuss what might be done to reverse this trend and counter this threat.

Reconquista the Sequel, the de-islamification of Europe

[Pants-of-dog]

I don't mind posting evidence if it is actually desired in a discussion. I have learned it is a waste of my time if it is just a diversion. I won't say my comments are immune from sourcing due to common knowledge, but anyone debating should be aware of these facts. Are you denying Western countries replacement birthrate averages near zero? Are you denying immigrants into these countries often have higher birth rates?

Edit: I used 'zero ' instead of the more correct 'two' because I thought it would lead to less confusion.

I am not denying any facts. But I am smart enough to know that even if these two facts are true, it still does not necessarily lead to Europe having an Arab population of over 50%.

---------------

http://maverickphilosopher.blogspot.co.il/2004/10/from-interview-with-bernard-lewis.html

From an Interview with Bernard Lewis
Here I translate, at the instigation of Kevin Kim, what to me is the most interesting portion of an interview with the famed Islamic scholar, Bernard Lewis. The interview was conducted by Wolfgang G. Schwanitz at Princeton University. The Interview appeared in Die Welt on 28 July 2004. The entire interview is available here.

DIE WELT: Wird die EU ein globales Gegengewicht zu Amerika bilden?

Lewis: Nein. Neben den Vereinigten Staaten werden künftig globale Spieler China, Indien und möglicherweise ein gesundetes Russland sein. Sicher weißß niemand, welcher Art die Macht in Moskau sein wird, aber gewiss nicht kommunistisch. Europa wird Teil des arabischen Westens sein, des Maghrebs. Dafür sprechen Migration und Demografie. Europääer heiraten spät und haben keine oder nur wenige Kinder. Aber es gibt die starke Immigration: Türken in Deutschland, Araber in Frankreich und Pakistaner in England. Diese heiraten früh und haben viele Kinder. Nach den aktuellen Trends wird Europa spätestens Ende des 21. Jahrhunderts muslimische Mehrheiten in der Bevölkerung haben.

The World: Will the EU form a global counterweight to America?

Lewis: No. Next to the United States, the future global players will be China, India, and possibly a healthy Russia. Surely no one knows what the dominant regime in Moscow will be, but it will certainly not be communist. Europe will be a part of the Arabian West. Migration and demographics point in that direction. Europeans marry late and have few children if they have any. But they allow heavy immigration: Turks into Germany, Arabs into France, and Pakistanis into England. These people marry young and have a lot of children. According to present trends, the population of Europe will contain Muslim majorities by the end of the 21st century at the very latest.

Well, now that we have seen the context, we see that he merely made a few declarations. There is no discussion as to how he came up with that prediction or if he is just guessing.

How do we know if he has any reasoning to support that claim?