Do we live in a police state? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14837263
This weekend in London there is the biggest street carnival in Europe.
It seems that the old bill have arrested a load of people, many on fabricated charges.
The Metropolitan police have arrested 656 people suspected of planning to cause trouble at Notting Hill carnival, the commander in charge of policing the event has said.

Dave Musker, the Met’s gold commander for the bank holiday weekend, said: “I don’t really care what we arrest them for, I’ll be [as] lawfully audacious as I can to get them off the streets.

“So whether they’ve got heroin or they’ve got other class A drugs, [are] drug dealing, [or] serious violence takes place at carnival, we will try to target them and get them off the streets.”

Pre-charge bail restrictions have been used to prevent some people from coming and force some people from the north Kensington area to stay away from their homes during the event, the Guardian understands.

Musker’s comments came after the Met drew ridicule and accusations of racism by publishing a tweet linking a heroin bust in south London to the carnival. The grime artist Stormzy replied to the force: “How many drugs did you lot seize in the run-up to Glastonbury or we only doing tweets like this for black events?”

Musker said concrete blocks and steel barriers would surround the event area to ensure it remains safe at a time of heightened concern about the risk of vehicles being used in terrorist attacks. Officers will check members of the public for knives and corrosive substances as they arrive.

However, he said there was no intelligence to suggest the carnival was at risk of a terrorist attack, nor that the aftermath of the Grenfell Tower fire had raised the risk of public disorder.

While extra officers will be stationed around Grenfell Tower in a “ring of care”, overall police numbers will stay the same as last year, with about 15,000 shifts worked over the two days. This works out as about 6,000 to 7,000 officers on duty each day.

The Met has also faced criticism for plans to trial facial recognition technology at the carnival for the second year running. Civil rights defenders last week urged the Met to scrap the trial, which they said has no clear legal basis and threatened a “significant interference with the right to private life”.

Musker said he was “not blind to the fact that this is a controversial tactic”, adding that the Met had consulted with privacy groups such as Big Brother Watch “to ensure that what we are doing is proportionate, legal and effective”.

“It’s not loaded, it’s loaded with people who we know are involved with criminality, who are wanted,” he said. “It’s not a speculative search tool.”

However, Big Brother Watch denied having meaningful consultation with the Met, having only met with the force once in 2016 to discuss the trial at that year’s carnival. “We did not provide assurances of proportionality, legality or effectiveness of the technology,” Renate Samson, Big Brother Watch’s chief executive, said. “These are assurances which can only be made by legislation or regulation by parliament, not by a conversation with a campaigning organisation.”

One Ladbroke Grove resident caught up in the pre-carnival operations said police had arrested him after finding him in possession of frankincense.

The resident, who preferred to not be named, was told he could not attend the carnival and must report to a police station in Clapham, south London, between 6pm and 9pm on Saturday, Sunday and Monday.




https://www.theguardian.com/culture/201 ... -crackdown
#14837484
A police state? Could be England is just returning to 19th century police tactics. Guess you will need a new country to colonise to send all those convicts too.

Still, one can't help but wonder if the police are rounding up the true trouble makers. The vast majority of social ills in England can be traced back to the power games played by the upper class Home Counties toffs. If England was really trying to clean up their society, surely it would be those Home County elites that need to be rounded up and imprisioned. And no, you can't put shackles on them and send them to Australia. Find somewhere else to dump your undesirables.
#14837494
What a pair of whining wankers, haven't you got anything real to complain about. Britain a police state? You need to go to China or Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Venezuela, or North Korea. Grow up.
#14837511
neopagan wrote:What a pair of whining wankers, haven't you got anything real to complain about. Britain a police state? You need to go to China or Saudi Arabia or Turkey or Venezuela, or North Korea. Grow up.


I think you make a fair comparison between the UK and other police states. Perhaps it is time that the free world impossed sanctions?
#14837567
@foxdemon
@neopagan

If you're black or a member of a minority and poor you would no doubt say that we live in a police state.
Obviously you're none of those. lol

Malcolm X’s description of the United States as a prison sums up the situation..
“Don’t be shocked when I say I was in prison,” he often told his audiences. “You’re still in prison. That’s what America means — prison.”

Image
#14837575
anarchist23 wrote:@neopagan

Have you spent time in prison?
If so what prison?
Just asking?

Most of us white people are smart enough to stay out of trouble and obey the laws so we don't go to prison. I am one of the smart ones, if you haven't guessed.
#14837577
Hindsite wrote:Most of us white people are smart enough to stay out of trouble and obey the laws so we don't go to prison. I am one of the smart ones, if you haven't guessed.


Are you serious?
Have you heard of institional racism. If not, then you should educate yourself and read a book or two.

Britain’s most senior police officer has said there is some justification to allegations that the Metropolitan police is institutionally racist, despite efforts to improve relations with ethnic minority communities following the Stephen Lawrence scandal.


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... tification
#14837578
anarchist23 wrote:Are you serious?
Have you heard of institional racism. If not, then you should educate yourself and read a book or two.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... tification

Yeah, I know about the claims that black young men are ‘much more likely’ to be stopped and searched than white men. However, that is because they are much more likely to have committed a crime.
#14837582
Hindsite wrote:Yeah, I know about the claims that black young men are ‘much more likely’ to be stopped and searched than white men. However, that is because they are much more likely to have committed a crime.


If the police target mainly black males then more black males will be busted. This is obviously obvious.

So in other words, because of the perception that Blacks commit more crimes this somehow justifies the fact that Black people are actually policed more. The problem is that this shouldn’t be the case. First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses. The other narrative is that Black neighborhoods are ubiquitously framed as being problematic and crime prone when in fact there are a plethora of predominantly Black neighborhoods around the country that has extremely low crime rates and are not part of the narrative. On the other end of the spectrum, there are predominantly White neighborhoods that have high crime rates, but for some reason we leave these two types of neighborhoods out of the narrative as it relates to crime.


https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/bla ... _crimes_1/
#14837584
If you watch the local news, you see vid after vid of dark skinned people committing crimes. You do not do minorities a favor by pretending this is not happening. This is a problem that needs addressed, not pretend it is the result of racism and therefore justified. Blacks are the victims of black crime. How does racism justify that?
Idiots.
#14837586
One Degree wrote:If you watch the local news, you see vid after vid of dark skinned people committing crimes. You do not do minorities a favor by pretending this is not happening. This is a problem that needs addressed, not pretend it is the result of racism and therefore justified. Blacks are the victims of black crime. How does racism justify that?
Idiots.


You make it up as you go along. So institional racism in the police force doesn't exist. Is this what you're saying?
And again.

First, an overwhelming percentage of Blacks are not criminals and those that have been convicted of crimes, studies show that roughly 75% of Blacks in prison are in prison for nonviolent drug offenses.


https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/bla ... _crimes_1/

To help stymie the problem, Morgan suggests redistributing some of what he calls the “exorbitant amounts of resources we put into policing [Black and racialized] communities.” The Toronto Police budget for 2016 is $1 billion, but Morgan says some of that money could be better spent on services that foster stronger communities, like investing in more accessible transit, affordable childcare and housing, and education and job training opportunities for young people. All of these initiatives would benefit low-income communities, which are disproportionately Black or racialized. “If you look at it in the full scope of those things, it’s not surprising we have so many African-Canadians in jail,” says Morgan. “It’s an inevitable outcome when you have social neglect as systematic as it relates to the Black community.”


http://torontoist.com/2016/04/african-c ... opulation/
#14837589
anarchist23 wrote:You make it up as you go along. So institional racism in the police force doesn't exist. Is this what you're saying?
And again.



https://thesocietypages.org/toolbox/bla ... _crimes_1/



http://torontoist.com/2016/04/african-c ... opulation/


Bullshit. This is more liberal 'superiority ' in believing it is your responsibility to help those 'less than you'.
Blacks don't need your 'help '. They need you to quit keeping racism on the front page. They need gangs eliminated by the police. Instead, you tie the police hands with your nonsense. None of your 'help ' or propaganda will do one bit of good as long as gangs control neighborhoods. It does not matter what the causes are, Black crime needs to be reduced as a first step. If Blacks are not willing to help police, then they deserve what they get in their neighborhood and have no right to complain about anything.
That said, it is a disservice to use Black and White when discussing the issue. It is any people too ignorant to accept police help in making their neighborhoods civilized. I don't care what color you are, if you want to continue living in a neighborhood where rival gangs determine justice then you are an idiot that deserves nothing.
This is reality. Police can't solve murders because stupid people think they should take care of it by continuing the killing. They refuse to be witnesses. Their refusal to be civilized is not my fault and it is not the fault of the police.
Get over your 'superiority complex ' and start expecting the same civility from all people. Equality means they are also equally responsible for their actions.
#14837600
@One Degree

anarchist23 wrote: So institional racism in the police force doesn't exist. Is this what you're saying?


Why don't you answer the question?
#14837602
anarchist23 wrote:@One Degree



Why don't you answer the question?


I have answered it many times. No, it does not. It would require a conspiracy that would be impossible to hide. We have had this discussion. Accusing police departments with Black police chiefs and Black police officers of institutional racism is ridiculous. Your statIstics come mainly from major liberal cities whose police forces have minority representation. You take the problems of liberal cities and say conservative racists are the problem. It is totally insane.
#14837610
anarchist23 wrote: So institional racism in the police force doesn't exist. Is this what you're saying?
Why don't you answer the question?


One Degree wrote:I have answered it many times. No, it does not.


What evidence have you to back up this claim or is it your opinion? lol

The head of the Metropolitan Police has said there is "some justification" to claims that the force is institutionally racist.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-33025853

In the Justice Department’s damning, astonishing report on the ingrained, systemic racism in Baltimore’s police department, one tidbit captures the larger picture. It describes an email by a city police supervisor containing a template for officers making trespassing arrests, with blanks to be filled in for date, location, suspect’s name and address — yet, oddly, no prompt for race or gender. Instead, the words “black male” were automatically included.

That must have been a convenience for Baltimore patrol officers, who, as the report details, have routinely used minor charges to harass, detain and arrest African Americans for the offenses of walking down the sidewalk, gathering on a corner and speaking to police the wrong way.

If that assertion prompts a raised eyebrow, consider this: In the five-year period ending last summer, blacks — who comprise 63 percent of Baltimore’s population — accounted for roughly 90 percent of suspects charged with trespassing, failing to obey an officer’s orders or “impeding” an officer. Eighty-four percent of those charged with disorderly conduct were black. And in a disproportionate number of those relatively trivial cases, where the arrests depended on an officer’s discretion, the charges were ultimately dropped.


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... 22c2e2662d
#14837613
The mayor of Baltimore is a Black woman. Liberals control the cities where most minorities live.
Why have they not corrected this 'institutionalized racism'? They are in control of what happens.
If it is not correctable, why bother bitching about it?
Why do you blame conservatives and/or racists for problems in cities they have virtually no input on? :?:
These problems are mainly problems in liberal cities and you blame people who have no say in changing it.
Liberal policicies obviously don't work and instead of admitting it, you place the blame on people who can't change it. :knife:

Why are Black problems in Liberal controlled cities not the fault of Liberals? What kind of insane reasoning is that?
#14837614
@One Degree

So you blame the liberals. lol
You haven't supplied the relevant information to back up your claim of no institional racism in the US police force.


CHICAGO — Racism has contributed to a long pattern of institutional failures by the Chicago Police Department in which officers have mistreated people, operated without sufficient oversight, and lost the trust of residents, a task force appointed by Mayor Rahm Emanuel has found.

Document: Chicago Police Accountability Task Force Report
The report, issued on Wednesday, was blistering, blunt and backed up by devastating statistics. Coincidentally, it was released as city leaders were installing a new, permanent superintendent for the Chicago Police Department.

“C.P.D.’s own data gives validity to the widely held belief the police have no regard for the sanctity of life when it comes to people of color,” the task force wrote. “Stopped without justification, verbally and physically abused, and in some instances arrested, and then detained without counsel — that is what we heard about over and over again.”

The report reinforces complaints made for decades by African-American residents who have said they were unfairly singled out by officers without justification on a regular basis, then ignored when they raised complaints.

It comes at a pivotal moment for the nation’s second-largest municipal police force, which is being criticized by residents and is under scrutiny from the Justice Department. And, coming from Mr. Emanuel’s own appointees, the findings intensify pressure on him and other Chicago leaders to make substantive, swift changes.




https://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/14/us/c ... finds.html
#14837616
Rahm Emanuel is the mayor of Chicago. Of course Liberals are to blame. They control the cities. Who else should be blamed except the people in control?
You did not answer a single one of my questions. You simply find it funny Liberals should be blamed for what happens in cities they control. :knife:
Answer my questions instead of posting meaningless articles.

Edit: You do realize Emanuel is a Clintonite?

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