Edmonton ISIS Attack and Protecting Canadians - Page 11 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14853709
Buzz62 wrote:Muslim can practice Islam After all, Islam is the religion of peace...right?
But any radical Islamic beliefs? Like for instance...Sharia Law...good-bye.


So you want to police people’s beliefs? That seems difficult. We would need some sort of thought police.

No because its completely irrelevant.


If you are arguing that we should enact your draconian policies because of the risk of harm, then it makes sense to point out those groups that have an even higher risk of harm and use those same draconian policies against them.
#14853715
Pants-of-dog wrote:So you want to police people’s beliefs? That seems difficult. We would need some sort of thought police.

no. just reinforce our own laws, and reinforce our immigration policies.

Pants-of-dog wrote:If you are arguing that we should enact your draconian policies because of the risk of harm, then it makes sense to point out those groups that have an even higher risk of harm and use those same draconian policies against them.

draconian policies for draconian laws.
#14853723
3.2 % of the population are not about to undermine our judicial system. I doubt many want to. Refugees are extracting themselves from painful situations.

I repeat: As long as the Canadian court system is upheld and trump's Sharia law, who cares what people do. Roman Catholics still have that annulment thingee.
#14853725
Stormsmith wrote:3.2 % of the population are not about to undermine our judicial system. I doubt many want to. Refugees are extracting themselves from painful situations.

I repeat: As long as the Canadian court system is upheld and trump's Sharia law, who cares what people do. Roman Catholics still have that annulment thingee.

trump's Sharia law?
what the hell are you talking about here?
#14853748
Buzz62 wrote:no. just reinforce our own laws, and reinforce our immigration policies.


Explain how.

draconian policies for draconian laws.


What does this have to do with the fact that more Canadians die from Islamophobic attacks than from Islamic terrorism? It’s not even a full sentence.
#14853752
BUzz62, your knowledge of Sharia law is sorely lacking. Sharia never trumps the law of the state. That is within the very tenets of Sharia.

Abrahamic religions have a version of Sharia(Judaism/Christianity) and the only places where Sharia law takes place is where there are theocracies, or dictatorships where the leadership to the country makes it so. Sharia only applies to the follower of said religion, as well.

Your fear of it being applied in Canada, is unwarranted. Your fear of Islam in Canada is unwarranted. Just because something happens in Europe, does not make it an equal threat in Canada, or any other place, for that matter.

In short, your fear of Islamic extremism in Canada, is unwarranted, and irrelevant(you seem to like that word).

Also, to dispute your claim:

How Canadian Immigrants are Actually Lowering the Crime Rate
https://www.visaplace.com/blog-immigrat ... rime-rate/

CANADIAN LIBERTY AND THE POLITICS OF FEAR
https://www.liberal.ca/canadian-liberty ... s-of-fear/
#14853910
Sharia Law:
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the hands (Quran 5:38 - includes graphic image).
• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.
• Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death.
• Criticizing or denying Allah is punishable by death (see Allah moon god).
• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death (See Compulsion).
• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.
• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.
• A woman or girl who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).
• Testimonies of 4 male witnesses are required to prove rape of a female (Quran 24:13).
• A woman or girl who alleges rape without producing 4 male witnesses is guilty of adultery.
• A woman or girl found guilty of adultery is punishable by death (see "Islamophobia").
• A male convicted of rape can have his conviction dismissed by marrying his victim.
• Muslim men have sexual rights to any woman/girl not wearing the Hijab (see Taharrush).
• A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.
• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.
• Girls' clitoris should be cut (Muhammad's words, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).
• A man can beat his wife for insubordination (see Quran 4:34 and Religion of Peace).
• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife; a wife needs her husband's consent to divorce.
• A divorced wife loses custody of all children over 6 years of age or when they exceed it.
• A woman's testimony in court, allowed in property cases, carries ½ the weight of a man's.
• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits (see Mathematics in Quran).
• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).
• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.
• Meat to eat must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be "Halal."
• Muslims are to subjugate the world under Islam (see Quran 9:29 and Palestine Issue).
• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.

http://www.billionbibles.org/sharia/sharia-law.html

And here's that word for you again

[Zag Edit: Rule 2]
#14853914
Ignorance is no excuse.

What Are the Most Misunderstood Aspects of Sharia Law?
I think the most misunderstood aspects of Sharia are that it is a hardened set of unchanging rules, and bizarrely that Muslims in America are trying to force it upon others in the US.

In reality, the word Sharia is derived from the word for “path”. Linguistically it means the “path to water”. In the religious context, it means the “path to God.” It is a set of timeless principles, enshrined in the Quran and the Prophet’s example, that provide ethical guidance. Scholars (men and women) derive law from these principles, through a process called “ijtihad” (no, not jihad) and these derived laws are scholarly opinions, not “edicts.” These are called “fiqh”, which literally means “an understanding.” Here, Muslim history is filled with diversity, contradictory opinions, schools of thought, and differing opinions by the same scholar over time and geography! This built-in flexibility of Islam’s legal framework is meant to keep it relevant in different contexts. The best analogy I have to explain the difference between Sharia and Fiqh is that of the compass and the map. Sharia is the compass in that it provides timeless principles, a Muslim’s “True North.” Fiqh, the map, however changes with time and place but should not contradict the compass. Fiqh is a rich and diverse body of scholarship, not a codebook of rules. They are legal “opinions”, and by definition, inherently fallible since they are a human beings “understanding” of God’s will, and can be and often are debated.

These principles guide Muslim life. The idea that anyone wants to replace the Constitution with sharia is pure fantasy and deliberate fear mongering for the purpose of fanning the fire of Islamophobia for political gain.

Not only do these laws produce anti-Muslim hysteria when they are proposed, but they restrict the rights of Muslim Americans if passed and are being challenged in state level supreme courts on constitutional grounds. The other issue is that the law makers pushing these “laws” also push proposed laws that restrict the rights of other people, including voter suppression and anti-labor laws.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/quora/wh ... 02388.html

Don't call my unCanadian simply because I don't agree with you. That's very puerile. I love and care about Canada. I simply don't ascribe the the terror and fear that you are selling.
#14853936
• Theft is punishable by amputation of the hands (Quran 5:38 - includes graphic image).

This is not particularly true.
The punishment of amputation of, not hands but hand, is implemented when someone well-off commits theft. This punishment does not apply to those who steel out of need, nor when the nation is under economic crisis or downturn. This punishment, almost across the entirety of Islamic history, has been to punish either the rich steeling out of greed, or those holding public and official positions going corrupt.

• Criticizing or denying any part of the Quran is punishable by death.

Does not exist anywhere in Islam.
Someone who denies the Quran is simply no longer considered a Muslim nor allowed to return to Islam.This is written in clear and direct letter in the Quran.
The punishment, according to the Quran and Islam in general, is in the afterlife not in worldly life.

• Criticizing Muhammad or denying that he is a prophet is punishable by death.

This is also a lie, and doesn't exist in Islam. Shown clearly that even the prophet hemself accepted that people have the right not to accept his prophethood in the Hodaibiah treaty.

• Criticizing or denying Allah is punishable by death (see Allah moon god).

The Quran clearly states in many sections including an entire sorah about it, stating that there is no coercion in religion or belief, and tells Muslims of those who do not believe in Islam or god, They have their religion and you have yours, leave them be and they leave you be.

• A Muslim who becomes a non-Muslim is punishable by death (See Compulsion).

This is a twisting of another rule called "reddah" which is not leaving Islam but leaving Islam and attacking the Islamic nation or joining an enemy nation fighting against it. i.e treason.

• A non-Muslim who leads a Muslim away from Islam is punishable by death.

False. Christian and Jewish and even Zoroastrian religious figures have across the history of Islam been active in attempting to bringing Muslims to their faith.
This is one of the main reasons why even Christian orthodox and Jews fought on the side of Muslims during the crusades.

• A non-Muslim man who marries a Muslim woman is punishable by death.

This is an outright lie.

• A woman or girl who has been raped cannot testify in court against her rapist(s).

A women that has been raped is to bring (or someone helping her) 4 witnesses or evidence for the crime alongside her testimony. If she can not, then she gives 1 oath in the place of each witness/evidence and a fifth to that she's telling the truth. A judge then decides on the case.

In the case of rape, if the victim was lying to convict someone, then the punishment given to her/hem is the same as that given to the person wrongfully convicted.

• Testimonies of 4 male witnesses are required to prove rape of a female (Quran 24:13).

The word male was never mentioned. And its 4 witnesses or evidence, as the word in the Quran is Shohod, which means either witness or evidence, and this is how its implemented. Islamic criminal justice convictions need 4 proofs to seal a conviction.

• A woman or girl who alleges rape without producing 4 male witnesses is guilty of adultery.

Lie. See above.

• A woman or girl found guilty of adultery is punishable by death (see "Islamophobia").

The punishment of adultery for both men and women is 80 lashes, never death penalty.
The lashes are not to be too hard or present physical harm as shown in the prophets rules. As the purpose is public shaming, not physical punishment.

• A male convicted of rape can have his conviction dismissed by marrying his victim.

A rapist is punished by death, and its the only crime that once convicted, the punishment can not be avoided as stated in clear and straight statement in the Quran.


• Muslim men have sexual rights to any woman/girl not wearing the Hijab (see Taharrush).

This is an outright lie. The punishment for sexual harassment is death penalty as its considered attempted rape. Regardless of what or who the women is and what shes wearing.

• A woman can have 1 husband, who can have up to 4 wives; Muhammad can have more.


Having more than one wife have many rules attached to it, and it was made in order than in wartimes with many of the men dying, those who are alive and welloff provide for the widows and orphans that fallen soldiers left behind.

• A man can marry an infant girl and consummate the marriage when she is 9 years old.

Marriage is not allowed before puberty, and consummation of marriage is decided between the couples afterwords.
What you're describing is an old Arab tradition in arranged marriages as they usually would arrange for their children to whom they will be married to when they reach age.
Islam in matter of fact fought against this and made it that in order for marriage to be legit, there must be consent between both the man and the woman, with each bringing 2 witnesses to testify that he/she have consented to the marriage and entered the marriage willfully.

If a marriage was forced on a women, then the consummation of it is considered rape.

• Girls' clitoris should be cut (Muhammad's words, Book 41, Kitab Al-Adab, Hadith 5251).

Female genital mutilation does not exist in Islam, nor infact does it exist in Islamic communities in general since its a sub-saharan tradition and not an Islam or Arab one.
And no such thing as a hadith saying so exists in any of the primary sources of the Sunnah.
What does exist is male circumcision.

• A man can beat his wife for insubordination (see Quran 4:34 and Religion of Peace).

This is also a clear lie as the Quran clearly states to treat women in kindness and respect, and if they've done something wrong in your right (i.e against you), then you punish them by staying away from them. Basically silent treatment or emotional punishment if you're to call it that.

• A man can unilaterally divorce his wife; a wife needs her husband's consent to divorce.

Both men and women can unilaterally divorce their spouses. A man's initiation of divorce is called Talaq and a woman's initiation of divorce is called Khale'.
And to add to that, in Talaq, the man needs to provide a reason for it. While in Khale', which only women can do, a woman does not need to provide a reason.

• A divorced wife loses custody of all children over 6 years of age or when they exceed it.

Quite the contrary, kids remain in their mother's custody until they reach puberty. If the mother is not capable of taking care of them for whatever reason, the custody moves to an aunt or a grandmother of either side. The father only takes full custody if no alternative is available.
As Islam and the prophet in many occasions and sections put a large focus on the importance of a mother's role in raising children and shown its always preferable for the children to be raised by either their mother of a woman who can fill the role of a mother to them.
To be exact, there are 11 sections in the Quran and Sunnah speaking exactly about this.

• A woman's testimony in court, allowed in property cases, carries ½ the weight of a man's.


Another clear lie.
The only place where women do get half the rights of men is in inheritance as in general, men tend to be the providers of the family and women tend to be the provided for in a family. Which means what a women inherits is purely to herself and is not obliged to give to anyone of it. While what a man gets, his wife and children have legal rights to it and he's mandated by law to provide for them.
Meaning that a woman inherits only by her self, while a man inherits with his wife and children.

As an added note.
This is actually something first and second wave feminists took from Islam, which is that women holds full rights to her property, while a man shares the rights to his property with his wife and children.

This is a good video. She explains this privilege perfectly.


• A female heir inherits half of what a male heir inherits (see Mathematics in Quran).

Already addressed in previous point.

• A woman cannot drive a car, as it leads to fitnah (upheaval).

Back then, there were no cars, and women could ride all sort of transportation on their own.

This rule is only applied in Saudi Arabia, and its there alongside many many other policies meant to subdue and prevent the population from ever rising up.

• A woman cannot speak alone to a man who is not her husband or relative.

Yes she can. Women are allowed to do all sorts of dealings on their own with anyone irregardless of their status.

There isn't much to say here because no such thing exists anywhere in the Quran or Sunnah, so its more of a straight lie than a twisting of an actual rule.

• Meat to eat must come from animals that have been sacrificed to Allah - i.e., be "Halal."

No. Halal is meat drained of its blood, as the consumption of blood is forbidden in Islam.
Sacrifice to god, usually around Al-adha holiday or in special occasions, is not meant for consumption but rather is meant to be given to the poor and those in need.
Basically, its something like "For god's appeasement I sacrifice this (insert animal) to feed the hungry and poor with."

• Muslims are to subjugate the world under Islam (see Quran 9:29 and Palestine Issue).

Muslims are to spread the message of Islam to all whom they meet. While its forbidden for them to coerce people in it.
What the Quran says about the military aspect is not a call for a war but rather a call for Muslim nations to always to ready and equipped to deter enemies from attacking them.
The exact letter is "Terrorize your enemies with number and equipment." Basically like how China does right now.

• Muslims should engage in Taqiyya and lie to non-Muslims to advance Islam.

Lying is forbidden and not advocated. Taqiyya, which yes is a lie, is permitted in only one situation, which is when the person's life is threatened and he/she has to lie to save themselves. This is mainly for in cases when Muslims are being attacked or persecuted for being Muslims, they can lie to save their lives and their lives matter more.

The only time when this was advocated by the prophet was to the Muslims still living in Mekka before Mekka became Islamic, As Muslims were being persecuted and killed, the prophet told them to hide their religion and lie about being Muslims to avoid what often used to be torture and death.

The word Taqiyya itself comes from the root etiqa' which means saving one's self from harm, or the avoidance of harm.
#14853938
You're wasting your time, Anasawad. You're trying to use logic and reason to argue with a bigot. He will deflect and dismiss any logical argument, as he has already done to me time, and time, again.
#14853948
Your whole argument is simply one big Ad Hominem fallacy. You have no logic or reason in your argument. It's all fear-mongering, hate, and prejudice.

You don't even know what a traitor is. No one is lying, or making excuses. We're showing you arguments based in fact, not in fear.

Also, it's "you're welcome", not 'your'.
#14853951
@Buzz62

Are you worried that the evil Muslims are going to impose Sharia on the rest of us because some random guy stabbed a cop and drove a U-Haul badly?

Because he made absolutely no change to Canadian society or laws.

In fact, there seems to be absolutely no way for Somali refugees (or any Muslims, for that matter) to impose Sharia on the rest of us.
#14853953
Funny. Most people steal, from a cookie to vast amounts of money. Yet in all the years I've watched the news of events in the middle east, I've never noticed bucket loads of double ( or single) amputees.

And look at those nutty Americans with there extreme views on religion and science. There's no barrier between them and Canadians or Mexicans, but their bland and unthinking version of religion is not spreading over the borders. Nobody up here feels a need to adopt a religion based on rank stupidity.


Really, Buzz, go watch that film "Bend 'em Like Beckham". That's a better model to describe the average Canadian Muslims jihad.
#14853971
The two wings of this thread are:

1. OMG. Muslim with knife and car in Edmonton! Lower Canada's immigration numbers immediately. (as if there aren't more easily justifiable reasons for lowering immigration and population)

2. Multiculturalism is holy. Immigrants are nicer than the (aging) indiginous population. Canada needs a larger population, or something... (as if you can actually articulate some credible reason why any country should want a larger population)
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