Catalonia crisis: Spain moves to suspend autonomy - Page 10 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14856745
The Spanish government has stripped Catalonia of its autonomy and taken charge of its government.
The measures early on Saturday came after the Catalan parliament voted to declare independence on Friday.
An official state bulletin dismissed Catalan leaders and handed control of Catalonia to Spain's Deputy Prime Minister, Soraya Saenz de Santamaria.
Earlier, Spain's interior ministry took charge of Catalonia's police after firing senior Catalan police officials.
On Friday, PM Mariano Rajoy announced the dissolution of the regional parliament and the removal of the Catalan leader, and called snap local elections.
Demonstrations for and against independence went on into the night.
More are expected on Saturday, with a rally "for the unity of Spain and the constitution" to be held in Madrid.
The crisis began when Catalan leaders held an independence referendum, defying a ruling by the Constitutional Court which had declared it illegal.
The Catalan government said that of the 43% of potential voters who took part, 90% were in favour of independence. Others boycotted the vote after the court ruling.
What are the latest developments?
On Friday afternoon, the Catalan regional parliament voted to declare independence from Spain.
Soon after, the Spanish Senate granted Mr Rajoy's government the power to impose direct rule on Catalonia.
It did so early on Saturday by publishing an official bulletin (in Spanish) that dismissed Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont and all government members.
The announcement came hours after the Madrid government removed Josep Lluís Trapero Álvarez as chief of Catalonia's autonomous Mossos police force.
Mr Trapero was already under investigation for sedition, accused of failing to help Spain's Guardia Civil police tackle thousands of pro-independence protesters in Barcelona during the run-up to the referendum.
Pere Soler i Campins, the Mossos director general, has also been dismissed.
"[Mr Puigdemont] had the opportunity to return to legality and to call elections," Mr Rajoy said.
"It is what the majority of the Catalonian people asked for - but he didn't want to do it. So the government of Spain is taking the necessary measures to return to legality."
Regional elections are scheduled for 21 December.
Mr Puigdemont urged supporters to "maintain the momentum" in a peaceful manner. Spanish prosecutors say they will file charges of "rebellion" against him next week.
Separatists say the independence move means they no longer fall under Spanish jurisdiction.
But the Spanish Constitutional Court is likely to declare it illegal, while the EU, the US, the UK, Germany and France all expressed support for Spanish unity.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41785292
#14856776
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Catalonians are pussies they wont take any arms

If they took arms there would be a civil war between Catalans themselves it seems.

jessupjonesjnr87 wrote:Take note Scotland you wasters.

It's a good advice for sure, the Catalans mean to teach the rest of the world how not to declare independence I think. :lol:
#14856783
Zionist Nationalist wrote:Thats not what its all about its about the fact that Catalonia can trigger the end of the EU :D

hypocrite Europeans have no problem supporting separatism in other continents but when it happen at their home suddenly they are against it :lol:

I thought it was Brexit that triggered the end of the EU, I didn't realise Catalan independence was needed too. :lol:

I wouldn't mind if Catalonia got independent, it's just not realistic and wouldn't be good for the people of Catalonia, who are divided on the issue anyways.
#14856800
From my lofty seat in the arsenal of democracy, the United States, I can't but wonder what all of this hoopla is really about.

I could understand this is Catalonians were an oppressed minority struggling for recognition but they are the wealthiest part of Spain; a country not exactly known for oppression. If they think they can do better themselves (and polls show that at least half of them don't) they might want to think again.

I swear this looks like a few people trying to grab for power.

We here in the pure Christian democracy sure understand one thing though. The best time for sweeping change is during a time of unprecedented peace and prosperity. :eh: ah. or something.
#14856818
I saw the nationalist fervor and joy in the faces of the hundreds of thousands of demonstrators in Catalonia.
If Madrid thinks to make all of that disappear, good luck to them.
I actually don't give two hoots about Barcelona but I enjoy this as another setback for the arrogant, overpaid, untaxed Brusselcrats and their leader, the drunkard Juncker.
#14856836
Ter wrote:I actually don't give two hoots about Barcelona but I enjoy this as another setback for the arrogant, overpaid, untaxed Brusselcrats and their leader, the drunkard Juncker.

Eurocrat is the usual nomenclature, and I'm sure they'd deserve you farting a big fat fart in their general direction five times a day at least. :lol:
#14858002
Pudgie is doing in Brussels the only thing he can do: playing the victim in order to get a favourable deal in the future with the Spanish goverment (maybe an official independence referendum or some fiscal advantages, I'm inclined for the latter). He knew since the beginning that the declaration of independence was a farce, as every person with any knowledge of this issue knows.

I am not gonna explain why 'taking up arms' (or 'war' or some bullshit like that) is not an option, as some here seem to suggest.
Just an example: Is 'taking up arms' an option for, say, independentist Babarians in Germany? :?:
#14858535
Eight sacked Catalan ministers have been remanded in custody by a Spanish high court judge over the region's push for independence.
Prosecutors had asked the judge to detain eight of the nine former government members who turned up for questioning in Madrid.
They are accused of rebellion, sedition and misuse of public funds.
The state prosecutor has requested a European arrest warrant for ousted Catalan leader Carles Puigdemont.
The request also covers four other dismissed Catalan ministers who did not show up.
Spain has been gripped by a constitutional crisis since the referendum was held on 1 October in defiance of a constitutional court ruling that had declared it illegal.
Last week, Spanish Prime Minister Mariano Rajoy imposed direct rule on Catalonia, dissolving the regional parliament and calling local elections for 21 December.
This came after Catalan lawmakers voted to declare the independence of the affluent north-eastern region. The Catalan government said that of the 43% of potential voters who took part in the referendum, 90% were in favour of independence.
Those detained include Deputy Vice President Oriol Junqueras, Interior Minister Joaquim Forn, Foreign Affairs Minister Raül Romeva, and Justice Minister Carles Mundó.
Former Business Minister Santi Vila was granted bail at the request of prosecutors. He resigned before the Catalan parliament voted for independence on Friday.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-41850094
#14858541
None of this in Catalonia surprises me at all. Spain's unification was always a fragile thing. Spaniards are highly regionalistic and in my frank opinion have always been very anarchistic and did not ever fully like central control of anything. Spaniards are incredibly rebellious by nature. Francisco Franco had a very hard time just getting minimal cooperation out of the various regions of Spain. Galicia speaks Gallego, Catalonia speaks Catalonian, the southern regions have dialects like mozarabe...etc. The idea of some one culture and one language and one unified Spain wasn't ever a real thing. It was made out of convenience. Andorra and the Euskari (Basque) people are very much their own culture as well. So many people who never study Spain in depth have very erroneous notions about who the Spaniards are in the world. They are disrespectful of central control for hundreds and hundreds of years. Hard for the Castilians to impose a damn thing on the rest of the regions. It has always been fragile. The Spanish civil war proved how difficult it was to have some kind of overpowering presence. The anarchistic element in Spain has always been strong, as well as the Communist, socialist and liberal as well. The fascists won out of sheer brutality and a very bloody civil war. An uneasy truce.

That Catalan flag has Puerto Rico and Cuba in it. Very obvious to me that the Catalan influence in the creators of those two Caribbean islands have Catalonia in there influencing the idea of national symbols. It is interesting. Spain is a very complex nation in terms of culture. It always has been.

Hernan Cortes the "Conquistador" of Mexico, had to burn the ships full of Spanish soldiers and sailors in Veracruz, Mexico because none of them wanted to advance into the heart of the Valley of Mexico. They were being rebellious and disobedient. Cortes solution was to burn the ships. No ship to go back to Cuba in. They had to commit to marching on to Mexico City. Typical Spanish shit in my opinion.

Interesting the Catalan flag sure resembles Cuba's and Puerto Rico's flag. Look:
#14858722
I wonder what Madrid will do if nationalist parties win the election again and vote for independence. :excited:

Then they will have a serious political problem. Lol. But the fact remains: about half the electorate of Catalonia support remaining a part of Spain (the pro-Spanish factions boycotted the illegal referendum). And the constitution of the Spanish nation-state is such that it is not possible for Catalonia to secede from Spain legally. Doing so would require an extra-legal act on the part of the Catalan elite; in other words, a revolution. The Catalan nationalists have demonstrated that they are not able or even willing to use violence to achieve their political aims. Their revolution is therefore never going to happen, and Catalonia will remain part of the Spanish nation-state for the foreseeable future.
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