Saudi Arabia issues mass arrests of senior princes, including billionaire Waleed bin Talal - Page 5 - Politics | PoFo

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Oxymoron wrote:another example of Arabs having no clue how to run a peaceful, stable and prosperous country.

And yet, the Saudis did what Goldman Sachs and NATO told them to: they made friends with the European colonists of Israel and then started binge-eating.

This is Vassal 101. What could possibly go wrong?
Great report on what's happening in the Saudi purge. Apparently the crown king wants to "liberate the Persians" and bomb suburbs in Beirut. Lebanon's Prime Minister is a dual citizen, he's also a Saudi national, they couldn't hold him there as official of Lebanon due to diplomacy and that's why they made him "resign" , now they don't see him as a lebanese anymore but as a Saudi so they feel entitled to hold him there

Marwa Osman is good! 8)

Marwa Osman wrote:Saad Hariri: Kidnapped, Coerced and Is Being Used by KSA to Incite Lebanese Internal Conflicts
A week after Prime Minister Saad Hariri was placed under house arrest, the Lebanese government is seriously discussing the option of internationalizing the crisis with Saudi Arabia and transferring the case to the Security Council. Prime Minister Hariri must wait at least another week, before Lebanon formally involves the United Nations and resolves to confront diplomatic relations with Saudi Arabia, without any predetermined results, given that Lebanon will be facing an adversary whose network of economic interests extends strongly within the United Nations. That it will be the first Arab confrontation to be initiated by Lebanon in the Security Council.

However, transferring this confrontation to the United Nations is necessary. It will represent a testament to the blatant Saudi aggression against Lebanon. The international community must be included in order to be held accountable if it chooses to marginalize itself as Mohammed bin Salman goes to the option of igniting the Lebanese scene. Lebanon cannot simply remain an easy target for Saudi daily blackmail and its constant threat of Lebanese civil peace, provided that it goes beyond the Hariri case, which will not be enough to deter the Saudis. Despite being a current priority, it is also necessary to put forth the Saudi aggression on Lebanon, as reflected daily in the statements of Saudi officials and the frantic activities of the Saudi networks to ignite civil war in Lebanon.

Hezbollah's Secretary General Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah did not deviate from the general atmosphere in the country, which is committed to calm and to call for the return of Prime Minister Saad Hariri from Saudi Arabia to build on the matter. However, sayyed Nasrullah did not hesitate to strip Saudi Arabia of its warmongering rhetoric against Lebanon in general and Hezbollah in specific, stressing that the pressures of the Saudi regime will not succeed in changing the positions of Hezbollah.

Sayyed Hassan Nasrallah is a key player in calming the Lebanese political scene, contrary to the will of the ruler of Riyadh. In his televised speech on Friday November 10, on the occasion of Hezbollah's martyr day and the 40th anniversary of Imam Hussein’s martyrdom, Nasrallah explained how "suddenly and with one stroke Prime Minister Saad Hariri was swiftly summoned by the Saudis without his assistants and advisers. He went and was forced to resign and read the statement they wrote for him. Lebanon was put in front of a new stage, and then began a series of statements and blatant threats from Saudi Arabia, up to the stage we are witnessing today”.

Before he the Saudi madness was unleashed, Lebanon within a year had entered “a state of political stability”, according to Sayyed Nasrullah. A President was elected for the Lebanese Republic, the cabinet was dissolved, and the formation of a national unity government began to work effectively and earnestly. The work of the deputies was activated, a new law was put in place for the upcoming parliamentary elections, and a budget was approved for the first time in 12 years. Then came along Saudi Arabia to offer “public and unprecedented interference” where Hariri's house arrest was then imposed and prevented from returning. His situation has become resounding. The man is detained in Saudi Arabia and is not allowed to return to Lebanon. The Prime Minister of the Lebanese government is being held in Saudi Arabia" the Secretary General repeated more than once.

Stressing that the Lebanese are facing a fateful stage, Sayyed Nasrullah emphasized that Hezbollah condemns the blatant Saudi interference in Lebanese internal affairs and the humiliating behavior with PM Saad Hariri. Sayyed Nasrullah reiterated that “in Hezbollah, we consider insulting the Prime Minister an insult to every Lebanese, even if we disagree with our PM in politics”.

Not only did the Saudis neglect all Lebanese, Arab and international demands for the release of Prime Minister Saad Hariri, they launched a new campaign to impose Baha'i Hariri as an alternative leader for his brother Saad. It seems that the central pressure has shifted from trying to convince the family and the "future" movement to influence their public with what Bin Salman wants, but rather are now working to create a rift within the political team of Prime Minister Hariri, both at the level of the parliamentary bloc, at the level of political leaders and activists and at the level of the media.

Saudi Minister for [Persian] Gulf Affairs, Thamer al-Sbahan, remained in constant contact with a large number of Lebanese personalities, with the help of the Saudi charge d'affaires in Beirut, Walid al-Bukhari, who in the past 3 days have invited personas and groups to visit the embassy in Beirut and to pledge allegiance to the kingdom and its options. Ashraf Rifi, former minister of justice, and leaders of the once existing March 14 created some popular action for youth in Beirut that ended in a complete absurdity on national TV with young men not knowing the reason behind their protest.

On the same note, efforts were being made to persuade some Arab clans from the Khaldeh area to participate in visits to the Saudi embassy amid security warnings for some of those invited to carry out subversive roles, especially after supporters of al-Sabhan reiterated that Hezbollah's roads in Lebanon would be cut in the south and Beqaa. Al-Akhbar reported that a large number of tribal leaders in Khaldah, Beqaa and the North declined to meet the invitation at the request of Future Movement officials. In the same context, the Sabhan team tried to influence some clerics and religious associations. Most of the imams of the mosques observed the commitment of Dar al-Fatwa as not to raise the issue of allegiance to Saudi Arabia in Friday sermons, except for the Mufti of the North, Malik al-Sha'ar, who seemed closer to the speech of Ahsraf Rifi who discussed the situation after the resignation as if it were settled.

Meanwhile a senior Lebanese official said President Michel Aoun had told foreign ambassadors, Hariri had been “kidnapped” and should have immunity. President Aoun had already declared that Lebanon does not accept its Prime Minister being in a situation at odds with international treaties stressing that any comment or move by Hariri “does not reflect reality” due to the questions over his status following his resignation in a broadcast from Saudi Arabia. Lebanon's president then called on Riyadh late on Saturday to clarify the reasons why the country's Prime Minister has not returned home since his dubious resignation last week.

A political crisis has gripped Lebanon and shattered the relative peace maintained by its coalition government since Prime Minister Saad Hariri’s stunning announcement Nov. 4 from the Saudi capital that he was resigning, wrote the Washington Post. Lebanese officials have all insisted on the return home of Hariri from Saudi Arabia amid asserted rumors he is being held against his will.

The wise, calm and responsible administration of President Michel Aoun, in solidarity and consultation with Parliament Speaker Nabih Berri and the various forces, became a consensus for all Lebanese who have decided that it is a must to stand together behind the wise administration of the crisis. ... apped.html

Also, this podcast with journalists Rania Khalek and Rania Masri, covering this whole spectacle. T'was good.
anasawad wrote:The president didn't accept Hariri's resignation, nor did Hariri do any of the official processes to resign.
He is still officially the prime minister of Lebanon and didn't resign yet.

I know and if you had saw the video you would know one of the main reasons they didn't accept is fear they would kill him or hold him there for a long time. Like I said, you're for sure not real Lebanese and I have my doubts of you being a Iranian. For sure you don't know a thing about what's really going on

skinster wrote:Marwa Osman is good! 8)

Yes she is :D MSM and people like @anasawad are trying to troll but Marwa shuts them down
No its not. Even if the president accepted it he still would be officially considered the prime minister until he returns to Lebanon and complete the process. There is a thing called the law if you never heard of it.

And I don't need to watch any video, If you want to post any information you write them down. No one is obliged to watch any video you post since there is a special section for videos and this isn't it.

And I know much more about whats going on than you do. You just don't know how to read.
anasawad wrote:@Politiks
No its not. Even if the president accepted it he still would be officially considered the prime minister until he returns to Lebanon and complete the process. There is a thing called the law if you never heard of it.

And I don't need to watch any video, If you want to post any information you write them down. No one is obliged to watch any video you post since there is a special section for videos and this isn't it.

And I know much more about whats going on than you do. You just don't know how to read.

Just because you're a entitled troll :excited: doesn't mean I'm one. I mean, what makes you think I think is mandatory to watch a video I posted? Or even read a comment I write? Watch if you want, don't watch if you don't want, I really don't care. I posted the video because is practical and easier, anyone who has interest in the subject can see the video, if not just scroll down, that simple.

The entitlement of few is real :excited:
Israel, Saudi Arabia Deepen Ties With Iran Intelligence Sharing Agreement
The Chief of Staff of Israel’s military has confirmed to a Saudi newspaper, that the Israeli regime is now prepared to share intelligence with the Saudi Arabia on matters concerning Iran.

While some will doubtlessly feign shock at the announcement, it is merely a confirmation of what most regional observers have felt was the status quo dating back a number of years, albeit one which has intensified lately.

Today’s statement follows the trend of Saudi Arabia and Israel working quietly but unambiguously to begin establishing open diplomatic relations. When this inevitably happens, Saudi will be only the third Arab country to have relations with the Israeli regime, the others being Egypt and Jordan.

For decades, Saudi and Israel have shared similar regional alignments. Both regimes have worked to undermine and overthrow Arab nationalist governments throughout the Arab world, including both Ba’athist and Nasserist states. Since 1979, both countries have also become steadfast opponents of the Islamic Revolution in Iran.

Moreover, this follows a trend of the Middle East regrouping into a northern and southern zone, each with its own geo-strategic goals and mutual dependencies within the respective zone. As Saudi Arabia and Israel each fall in the southern zone, it is only natural for the two countries to make their de-facto alliance public. This demonstrates that any theoretical differences between the state ideologies of Zionism and Wahhabism are largely inconsequential. In both cases, shared strategic goals of undermining Arab nationalist states and the Islamic Revolution in Iran have taken precedence over perceived ideological differences.

In his statement, Israeli military officer Gadi Eisenkot admits to a south versus north divide. He accuses Iran of attempting to form a ‘Shi’a Crescent’ running from Iran to Lebanon. In reality, this internationally juvenile description of the new north of the Middle East, undermines the very real strategic interests of Iraq, Syria and Lebanon as part of this alliance, as well as the emerging and meaningful partnership between Iran, Turkey and Iraq. Furthermore, as this region is home to millions of Sunni Muslims and many varieties of Christians and seeing as Iran retains its historic Jewish population, it is absurd to call the new northern bloc of Middle Eastern powers a ‘Shi’a crescent’.

I have written about this new trend which is emerging in the following way:

With the wars in Syria and Iraq drawing to a close and with the governments of both states standing victorious over both Takfiri terrorism as well as (broadly speaking) Kurdish ethnonationalism, a new reality in the Middle East has emerged where the region is broadly divided between a geo-political north and south.

In the north, there is the Syria-Iraq alliance made possible by common enemies and a common history, in spite of the Ba’athist schism of 1966-2003. Both states, for slightly different reasons, are also allied with Iran and for oddly similar, are reasons partners with Russia. In the case of Syria, Damascus is a historic Soviet ally and in the case of post-Ba’athist Iraq, the government looks to attain defense independence by working with a Russian state which unlike the US, is willing to sell arms to any reasonable nation without political preconditions.

Iran, Iraq and Syria, in turn, are allied with Hezbollah, which in effect means a large portion of Lebanon and in terms of geo-strategic defense considerations, it means the most important part of Lebanon. Turkey is now a partner of Iran, Iraq (to a surprisingly important degree) and Russia. While Syria will be very unlikely to forgive Turkey for its previous support of Takfiri driven regime change, in reality, Syria and Turkey have a common post-Takfiri enemy: the continued rumblings Kurdish ethnonationalism. This means that it is becoming increasingly likely that Syria and Turkey may end up cooperating in the future, even if it means doing so at a covert level because of heightened sensitivities to such a thing among the general public in both Turkey and Syria.

To the south, there is another story. Saudi Arabia and Egypt are now close allies. The mentality and political independence of the Nasser years are all but done in Cairo. Jordan can also be lumped into this group. Like Egypt, Jordan is one of the only two Arab states to have normal relations with Israel and by many accounts, Saudi Arabia will soon follow. As goes Saudi, so goes the UAE, Bahrain and to a lesser extent Kuwait and to an even lesser extent the relatively politically unimportant Oman. Qatar finds itself in a situation that is both precarious and surprisingly advantages, as I explored in the piece below.

The alliance between the northern Middle East powers and the alliance between the southern Middle East powers are not formal blocs in the sense of the Warsaw Pact and NATO which divided most of Europe into east and west. Instead, the new geopolitical blocs of the Middle East constitute a rapidly consolidating reality where countries are united based on the pragmatic acknowledgment of common interests. By including Turkey into the mix, one cannot say it is a “Shi’a crescent” and likewise, by including both Turkey and Iran into the northern Middle East, it is neither Pan-Arab. The same is true when it comes to including Israel in the southern portion of the alliance, which is very much where Israel is.

Against this backdrop, it is easy to see why many in Saudi Arabia and beyond are eyeing Lebanon as a potential prize. Lebanon, as a small state with beautiful real estate, is a microcosm of the entire alliance, certainly in terms of religious affiliation.

Hezbollah is well aware of this and in a move that can only be described as politically masterful and in terms of security, highly ethical, Hezbollah like the fellow Shi’a Amal Movement and the broadly Christian Free Patriotic Movement, have urged political unity at a time when clearly Saudi Arabia is attempting to sow divisions in the country.

Hezbollah is openly positioning itself as a ‘national party’ in a country that doesn’t have national parties. Lebanese politics often looks like ‘the art of the impossible’ with sectarian pacts being more prevalent than a unifying patriotism, as it is in Ba’athist Syria. Hezbollah cannot change this and certainly cannot modify it overnight, but in playing the national card rather than the Shi’a versus Sunni/Wahhabi card, Hezbollah has transcended the extreme sectarian politics of Lebanon, just as Saudi Arabia is becoming unable to transcend the family feud between some men from the House of Saud and other men from the House of Saud.

This attitude which will give Hezbollah and its coalition partners the moral high ground while refusing to exclude or scapegoat Lebanese Sunnis for Saudi’s meddling means that Lebanon is well placed to become part of the political north of the Middle East.

This leaves Israel and Palestine. For the Israeli regime, recent events have all but killed Tel Aviv’s preferred narrative which it has invoked since 1947. For Israeli propagandists, it was always “us versus the Arab world” and when the Arab world was attempting to unite in the age of Nasser, there was some truth to an Arab world uniting against Israel. This is something that the Arab world saw positively and Israel saw negatively. After 1979, the Israeli propaganda narrative was modified to be “The Arab world + Iran – Egypt versus us”.

Today though, with Jordan and Egypt on good terms with Tel Aviv, with Saudi Arabia looking to increase its ties with Israel and with only one Arab state, Syria, still fully behind the Palestinian cause, Israel’s narrative has collapsed.

There is no “Arab Israeli conflict” because half of the Arabs either tacitly or overtly accept the presence of the settler state. Likewise, Iran is a stalwart supporter of Palestine and Turkey is becoming ever more distant from Israel.

The collapse of Israel’s creation myth narrative also means increased Israeli isolation from a military standpoint. Just as Israel boosts its relations with the Arab states of the southern half of the Middle East, so too does it mean that Israel will have a more difficult time acting unilaterally.

Hezbollah’s leader Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah has admitted for the first time that under the “new” Muhammad bin Salman regime in Saudi Arabia, the Israeli regime is being coerced by Saudi into making provocative moves while Israel remains cautious for selfish reasons. As recently as last week, it was assumed that Tel Aviv called the shots, not Riyadh.

This means that if Israel is going to preserve its new friends in the southern part of the Middle East, it will have to do something it has never done: consult with others in order to preserve alliances.

This weakens Israel’s ability to fight its customary blitzkrieg wars, as such wars rely on a single front against a united enemy. Instead, the region now has multiple possible fronts with many different enemies to rage at, in many scattered locations and many different partners to placate or even show deference towards. By contrast, Saudi Arabia prefers slow burning/grinding conflicts for obvious logistical reasons but also for the tactical reason that Saudi Arabia wants to present itself as the legitimate leader of the Arabs while Israel is keen to present itself as the country that Arabs fear. In reality, Israel is more hated than feared and Saudi is far from a leader of the Arab world, but these are the aims, however preposterous, of both states, respectively.

Even in Yemen where Saudi has used a large amount of shock and awe, it is still far from the Israeli blitzkrieg where a swift ground attack follows shortly from aerial bombardment. Likewise, Israel probably wouldn’t have the patience for such a protracted war, while Saudi at least for now, still is intend on beating the Houthis in Yemen, a task which will likely prove impossible.

This helps explain Sayyid Hassan Nasrallah’s confidence in the fact that Israel will not go to war in Lebanon even at Saudi’s gold-plated behest. Israel knows that a conflict in Lebanon in 2017 would be a long protracted struggle, the kind Saudi might be willing to put up with in Yemen, but Israel does not have the stomach for on its border.

I previously wrote how this new reality could work in the favor of the besieged Palestinians in the long term. I stated:

On the one hand, if Tel Aviv concentrates on both co-opting and being co-opted by states like Saudi, Egypt and Jordan who in recent decades have shown little enthusiasm for the Palestinian cause, there is a danger that Palestinian land could become a tragic ghetto of isolation in an otherwise booming region. However, on the other hand, the idea of prosperity trickling horizontally across a newly booming economic region could actually take the wind out of the sails of the Israel-Palestine conflict, something which in the long term bodes well for Palestine reclaiming its full statehood. This is the case because if the Tel Aviv regime becomes fully immersed in a mostly Arab led regional prosperity initiative, having to contend with rightfully angry Palestinians could only exorcise all parties. Furthermore, Palestinian grievances in a would-be south-Arab ghetto could further incur the wrath of Palestine’s meaningful allies including Lebanon (aka Hezbollah), Syria, non-Arab Iran and in the future, quote possibly a revitalised and almost certainly pro-Palestine Iraq. Wanting to keep such countries away from Saudi’s ‘south Arab’ project would be in the interests (however selfish) of Saudi, Jordan, Egypt and the regime in Tel Aviv.

And here is where a peaceful one-state solution could come into play. Rather than divide a portion of an increasingly inter-dependent south-Arab region (aka the two-state solution), leaving open the possibility of Syria, Hezbollah, Iraq and non-Arab Iran playing a part in this new region via the Palestinian back door, it might instead be easier to create a single state along the pre-1947 Palestinian borders that could be described as Palestine with cosmopolitan characterises or perhaps Israel with Arab characteristics, depending on the demographics and political will of various countries in ten years or more from today.

Just as Lebanon is a cosmopolitan country that is increasingly tied in with the north-Arab region, so too could this new Palestine be a kind of cosmopolitan bridge to the south, a place which like Lebanon has a shared history that at times has been peaceful and at others has been horrific. Tragically, Israeli meddling is by far the greatest author of mystery in both Palestine and Lebanon.

Ultimately, unless something radically changes in Egypt, Jordan or Saudi, the kind of good will that countries like Syria has for Palestine will never be present in the new ‘south Arab’ bloc. However, pragmatism which would come about in the ‘new Arab south’ to spite countries like Syria and groups like Hezbollah, could indeed force a pragmatic one-state solution based on the peace that is implicit in the need to pacific a region in order to make it ‘prosperity friendly’. In this sense, Palestine could breath a much needed breath after decades of asphyxiation, while Palestine friends in the ‘new Arab north’ would have something of a last laugh as they have got a decades long running start in developing key relations with China and Russia.

This situation is both far from assured and also far from ideal in many ways. It is however, a possible solution which still represents some improvement on the hopeless status quo.”

Thus, we see the emergence of a new Middle East, one which has risen from the sinews of war in the north and political stagnation in the south. As Israel, Saudi, Egypt and Jordan become ever more economically interdependent, this will only further limit Israel’s ability to act in a unilateral fashion in its old blitzkrieg style.

While the north is increasingly revitalized by victory, the south is increasingly interdependent. Into this fray, the most heavily armed state in the Middle East, Israel is now trapped in a cycle of interdependence, without its old narrative, without its old might, without its old confidence, and without its old boogie men. Israel’s devious attempts to destroy Arab unity have just backfired in a spectacular fashion. Israel has built itself a fortress of partners and these partners have a lot to say to Israel and not all of it is the echo of a choir. For the first time in history, Israel may just have to listen to what others are saying.

Thus we see that as Israel and Saudi Arabia formalize their partnership against the powers of the northern Middle East. The new blocs about which I spoke, have formally solidified. ... ent/23454/

Thanks for the warm welcome all.

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