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By Godstud
#14859780
foxdemon wrote:The truth is liberalism is the ideology of the ascendancy of mercantile townsfolk, the bourgeoisie, over labour and the aristocracy. Liberalism = capitalism.
:lol: That's not what Liberalism is. That you think it is related to an economic ideology, is just plain sad. Liberalism can thrive in a socialist economy, as well.

foxdemon wrote:Just to clarify a few points liberals seem to be confused about.

1/ rule of law predates liberalism. Therefore liberalism is not required for rule of law.

2/ acedemic freedom and an open mind predates liberalism. Therefore liberalism is not required for freedom of intellectual inquiry or a curious mind.

3/ democracy predates liberalism. Therefore liberalism is not required for democracy.

4/ social justice was a response to the inequities of liberal capitalism. It is an expression of socialism. Therefore liberalism is not required for social justice.

1/ Liberals are very aware of law. Liberals follow it as much as the next person, and it holds as much importance as in any other ideology.

2/ Liberalism is not required for freedom of intellectual inquiry or a curious mind. That IS liberalism.

3/ Therefore liberalism is not required for democracy. It's not required, but it goes hand in hand with it.

4/ Social justice is a part of liberalism. Democratic socialism thrives with liberalism. Again, it isn't required, but it does play a big part of liberalism.

It's sad to see you don't actually understand what Liberalism is. :*(
#14859812
Red_Army wrote:If atheism turns out to be his motivation - holy shit what an evil fuck.

It's looking that way. Instead of all these arguments about the definition of "liberal," it seems more appropriate to discuss the effectiveness of deontology in the absence of religion.

Godstud wrote:Right, so this person should have been denied access to firearms, and possibly this could have prevented this incident. If the US had any gun controls worth a shit, these incidents could be prevented.

How would that have stopped 9/11, the Nice attack, or the recent attacks in London and NYC? If people have the will to kill, they don't need guns to do it.

Godstud wrote::lol: That has nothing to do with this thread, which is about white American men with guns killing lots of people. White American male gunmen are a bigger threat to Americans than Islam, or terrorism.

He was an atheist who thought Christians were stupid. Atheists have killed quite a few people. Do you have any comment on that?

'Creepy, crazy and weird': Former classmates say Texas gunman was an 'outcast' who 'preached his atheism' online before killing 26 in the state’s worst ever mass shooting
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By Godstud
#14859813
blackjack21 wrote:If people have the will to kill, they don't need guns to do it.
Right, and 3 guys killed 7 people instead of 150 in the UK recently, because they didn't have access to guns. Want to blurt out more stupid shit?

blackjack21 wrote:He was an atheist who thought Christians were stupid. Atheists have killed quite a few people. Do you have any comment on that?
I've never equated criminality to religious, or non-religious orientation, so your argument is nonsense.

Edit for grammar.
Last edited by Godstud on 07 Nov 2017 00:11, edited 2 times in total.
By Suntzu
#14859911
The guy drives to the church to kill his mother-in-law. Ironically, she skipped church. He opens fire on the church outside and then moves inside. Neighor's daughter hears the commotion and gets daddy who gets his rifle and engages the shooter as he exits the building wounding him in the side. Shooter drops his gun and flees to his car parked at gas station about a block away. Neighbor with rifle pursues on foot and then stops a guy with pickup. Together they pursue shooter for a few miles until he crashes his SUV. What happens next is unsure, he either bled out or committed suicide. Cops show up five minutes later, shooter is dead. One account has him grabbing a hostage but no other mention of it.
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By Beren
#14859926
One must be a really unscrupulous person to come up with Muslims and Islam anytime something like that happens, like it's a typical Muslim thing. However, liberalism can be blamed here as US gun laws are very liberal indeed. (The constitution is misinterpreted though.)
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By Beren
#14859940
Suntzu wrote:So what does the constitution really mean? :roll:

As far as I know it means that the people can own guns to be able to form armed militias or defend their homes and property if necessary. I'm sure the Founding Fathers didn't believe in the romanticism of the Wild West and they didn't mean Americans to bear arms routinely while walking the streets or amass assault rifles and ammunition in normal peace time.
By Suntzu
#14859958
Beren wrote:As far as I know it means that the people can own guns to be able to form armed militias or defend their homes and property if necessary. I'm sure the Founding Fathers didn't believe in the romanticism of the Wild West and they didn't mean Americans to bear arms routinely while walking the streets or amass assault rifles and ammunition in normal peace time.


America is an armed militia, the militia being the whole of the people. ;)
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By Beren
#14859964
Suntzu wrote:America is an armed militia, the militia being the whole of the people. ;)

Just because people have guns they're not militia. Militia is also not about gun cult.
By Decky
#14859978
Godstud you know that outside of the colonies people still use liberal correctly rather than in the American way right?
By Suntzu
#14859991
Beren wrote:Just because people have guns they're not militia. Militia is also not about gun cult.


For you enlightenment:


10 U.S.C. § 311 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 10. Armed Forces § 311. Militia:  composition and classes

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32 , under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

The classes of the militia are--

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia;  and

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
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By Beren
#14860001
Suntzu wrote:For you enlightenment:


10 U.S.C. § 311 - U.S. Code - Unannotated Title 10. Armed Forces § 311. Militia:  composition and classes

The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32 , under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.

The classes of the militia are--

the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia;  and

the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

So that's how militia (The militia of the United States) is defined by US law. Very interesting, however, I used the word in another sense.

Wikipedia wrote:A militia is generally an army or some other fighting organization of non-professional soldiers, citizens of a nation, or subjects of a state, who can be called upon for military service during a time of need, as opposed to a professional force of regular, full-time military personnel, or historically, members of a warrior nobility class (e.g., knights or samurai).

My point was that people with guns are militia only if they are organised, however, unorganised militia is also defined by US law it seems.
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By Beren
#14860013
Suntzu wrote:Rare that facts enter into an argument 'round here. ;)

But it's not rare that people start talking about peaches when it's about apples. I used a word in its general/ordinary sense to make an argument, then you used a legal argument to enlighten me prove me wrong. Do you feel like a great debater now?

I used the word "militia" in a general sense obviously, so it's irrelevant how US law defines it, but it's appreciated you told me about it. :up:

► Show Spoiler
#14860049
Another mentally deranged American kills people. :*(

Americans need to start looking for the enemy within, instead of enemies without.

Americans who already have guns are far more dangerous to Americans, than immigrants and refugees.
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