[Sivad]

[skinster]

So he can take the Christians of his town as hostages.

That didn't happen. The town was protesting Trump's move initially and then went ahead and celebrated anyway.

[noir]

Accidentally just read a scanned article from 1935, the Jewish Palestinian author (Ha'Yarden - The Jordan - paper) argues with the Anglican bishop lecture that the Christian presence in British mandate of Palestine is infact diminishing. They refuse or couldn't notice it. It's historical process even before the "occupation" or "Palestinian authority" took power, though they have an influence too.


http://jpress.org.il/Olive/APA/NLI_heb/ ... 2&rtl=true

[noemon]

The Ottomans genocided a million Armenian Christian, but some Jew allegedly wrote some graffiti on a church. Well obviously its the Jews Christians need to worry about not the Muslims.

Hey guys, the Turks killed the Christians a century ago so let's pretend that the extinction of Christians from Jerusalem under Israeli authority today is not a problem at all. They should have a go too, innit Rich?. Hey let's ignore the Christians from complaining about their properties being stolen, their money being confiscated, their religious and human rights being denied by supposed allies, yeah let's ignore that and support Israel because it's killing Muslims too and we hate Muslims more than we love our fellow Christians. Isn't that right Rich?

[noir]

their money being confiscated,

They didn't pay taxes for 70 years. Why?

[noemon]

Because that is the agreement that existed before you came into Israel/Palestine and this agreement existed even for you too, courtesy of the Ottoman Muslims, and it is the agreement you signed to enter into the country. These are the rights that Jews and Christians had from the Muslims in the Holy Land and now you are removing these rights for Christians and Muslims.

[noir]

Than the agreement is unfair and unsustainable because most of Jerusalem residents are religious and almost no one is paying taxes (for social reasons) beside the few secular Israelis. Jerusalem municipality is right, though they probably tring to put pressure on Israel goverment to increase their budget if she doen't want a diplomatic embarrassment.

[noemon]

Even if we pretend that Israel has the right to alter the Status Quo(the agreement that exists for centuries between Christians, Muslims and Jews), which it doesn't because these terms are part of the Israeli declaration of independence, even then you cannot backdate charges or confiscate money from the bank accounts of the Orthodox, Anglican and Catholic churches. It just goes to show how little respect Israel has for Christians.

[Rich]

Who is this liar? He repeatedly lied that all the Jews came from Europe, a huge percentage came from Muslim countries. He also claimed that there are Jews only roads in the West Bank. Is this true? Are Israel's Christian and Druze population forbidden to use these roads?

[noir]

The majority of the Israelis are Mizrahi/Sepharadi non European Jews who fled to Israel from Arab world. It's crucial theme in Arab propaganda to portray Israel as European "colonial settlers state". BTW, the first who used this theme were Christian Arabs (Dhimmi). Their fucking off by whoever side is historical justice.

[skinster]

He also claimed that there are Jews only roads in the West Bank. Is this true?

Yes.

[noir]

More about the demographic dwindling of Christian Arabs (Dhimmi) in the region.

Christianity wise, their immigration is the best thing they did to reclaim their faith. For about more than 100 years, they are tool by the Muslim majority, as we can see olso in this thread; they been used as propaganda ploy by jihadi strategy. Of course, Christianity has its own antisemitic tradition but the Christian Arabs are totally Islamized, and they even call for suicide bombing. In South America, mainly in Brasil and Chile, they can return to peaceful way of Christianity.

[Hindsite]

Because that is the agreement that existed before you came into Israel/Palestine and this agreement existed even for you too, courtesy of the Ottoman Muslims, and it is the agreement you signed to enter into the country. These are the rights that Jews and Christians had from the Muslims in the Holy Land and now you are removing these rights for Christians and Muslims.

As I understand it, the Ottoman Muslim Caliphate forced this agreement on threat of getting beheaded.
So if one wants to keep his head, he would most likely agree or not be able to disagree.
That does not appear to be a fair agreement to me.
The Jews in Israel now have gained the power to disagree.

[noir]

The Jews in Israel now have gained the power to disagree.

The reality dictate the policy. Jerusalem is the poorest city in Israel (despite being the capital) because of its dominantly religious dempography (of all three religion). The city looks poor and neglected. It doesn't make sense to let such rich and wealthy insitutions not to pay taxes.

[noemon]

As I understand it, the Ottoman Muslim Caliphate forced this agreement on threat of getting beheaded.
So if one wants to keep his head, he would most likely agree or not be able to disagree.
That does not appear to be a fair agreement to me.
The Jews in Israel now have gained the power to disagree.

Forced the agreement that Jews do not have to pay taxes for religious buildings, did the Turks threaten them to make them submit to not pay taxes?

The Status Quo of Holy Land Sites is a series of century old agreements that regulate the relationships between Christians, Muslims and Jews and have merely been recognised and formalised under the Ottomans and then the British. Another agreement is that Jews and Christians do not pay the Muslims for water for the Holy Sites in Jerusalem, however Israel has also started charging for water the Christians and the Muslims despite the fact that the Jews did not pay the Muslims for water for centuries. And worse they backdate those charges and then pretend that they are owed millions.

It's good to know that you support them when they disrespect the Christian Church and the century old agreements that exist between the 3 in order to steal Christian money in broad daylight. Because apparently it is not enough that Christians have gone completely extinct inside Jerusalem, now their institutions must be destroyed as well.

[Hindsite]

Forced the agreement that Jews do not have to pay taxes for religious buildings, did the Turks threaten them to make them submit to not pay taxes?

The Status Quo of Holy Land Sites is a series of century old agreements that regulate the relationships between Christians, Muslims and Jews and have merely been recognised and formalised under the Ottomans and then the British. Another agreement is that Jews and Christians do not pay the Muslims for water for the Holy Sites in Jerusalem, however Israel has also started charging for water the Christians and the Muslims despite the fact that the Jews did not pay the Muslims for water for centuries. And worse they backdate those charges and then pretend that they are owed millions.

It's good to know that you support them when they disrespect the Christian Church and the century old agreements that exist between the 3 in order to steal Christian money in broad daylight.

I believe I read somewhere that the Muslim Caliphate forced the Christians and Jews to pay taxes or convert to Islam, or else be put to death. I had never heard of an agreement for them not to pay taxes. That sounds more like the tax exemptions for religions in the USA.

[noemon]

I believe I read somewhere that the Muslim Caliphate forced the Christians and Jews to pay taxes or convert to Islam, or else be put to death. I had never heard of an agreement for them not to pay taxes. That sounds more like the tax exemptions for religions in the USA.

Exactly, the Muslims exempted the Christians and the Jews from paying taxes for religious buildings and water in Jerusalem. Israel started charging for water and for taxes and started backdating those charges, presenting the Christians with millions of debt and without notice confiscating their bank accounts.

All these exemptions, privileges and responsibilities of the 3 religions in Jerusalem are part of an agreement called the Status Quo for the Holy Sites which Israel had to agree to respect before it gets recognised as a country.

[noir]

That sounds more like the tax exemptions for religions in the USA.

According to current scheme, Jerusalem municipality has decided to collect property taxes from the various churches in the city, *which are not used for worship*, of course it's all may be just tug-of-war between the manicipulty and government. No one in Israel believes they will succeed to force them to pay taxes, it's just shows how strong they are.

[noemon]

Israel don't have to force them to pay taxes on their religious buildings in Jerusalem, Israel 3 days ago already confiscated whatever money it felt it needed from the bank accounts of the Anglican, Catholic and Orthodox Churches without even notifying them.

The Jerusalem municipality has already confiscated money from the bank accounts of several churches, saying that it seized 7.2 million shekels from the Anglican church, 2 million shekels from the Armenian church, 11 million shekels from the Catholic church and 570,000 shekels from the Greek Orthodox church.

[Hindsite]

Israel don't have to force them to pay taxes on their religious buildings in Jerusalem, Israel 3 days ago already confiscated whatever money it felt it needed from the bank accounts of the Anglican, Catholic and Orthodox Churches without even notifying them.

That sounds like propaganda. I do not believe Israel would do that. However, I do believe that the Muslim government in their part of Jerusalem might do something like that.