[skinster]

Nikki Haley pranked into thanking fake Polish PM for UN Jerusalem vote

The International Treaties Abbas Seeks to Join to Protest Trump's Jerusalem Move
Palestinian Authority will hand in documents required for signing 22 international conventions and treaties. List includes an amendment to the Rome Convention, which extends the definition of war crimes to include the use of poison gas

The Palestinian Authority is about to hand in the documents required for signing on to 22 international conventions and treaties, 18 of which are under United Nations auspices, in protest against the unilateral American recognition of Jerusalem as Israel’s capital. 

The move follows a declaration made in Ramallah by Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas following U.S. President Donald Trump’s December 6 announcement. This step, which is similar to decisions made in the past by Abbas, is intended to augment the recognition of a Palestinian entity as a signatory state to such treaties, similar to other states. 

Haaretz has obtained the complete list of the treaties the Palestinians are intent on signing on to, which includes an amendment to the 8th clause of the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court, a clause which extends the definition of war crimes to include the use of poison gas. Other conventions on the Palestinian list are: 

This is not the first time the Palestinians are taking such steps. In April 2014, the Palestinian Authority asked to join 15 conventions and treaties including the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW), the Fourth Geneva Convention and the UN Convention against Corruption. That move came as a protest against the delay in a scheduled release of Palestinian prisoners. The UN Secretary General at the time, Ban Ki-Moon, acceded to 10 of the requests, involving those conventions which are under UN auspices.

In December 2014, after suffering a defeat at the UN Security Council, Abbas signed on to 22 conventions, including the Rome Statute, thus paving the way for the Palestinians to join the International Criminal Court in the Hague
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... s/1.831908

[Deutschmania]

Based upon what Skinster has posted , in regards to then Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak 's plan for the west bank , it appears to me to be analogous to a Bantustan , with the Palestinian Liberation Organization in the position of serving as the equivalent to the Judenrat . It would seem that the concerns of socialist Zionist Berl Katznelson , in respects to the partition plan of the Peel Commission has come to be realized . He said , and I quote ,

I do not wish to see the realization of Zionism in the form of the new Polish state with Arabs in the position of the Jews and the Jews in the position of the Poles, the ruling people. For me this would be the complete perversion of the Zionist ideal... Our generation has been witness to the fact that nations aspiring to freedom who threw off the yoke of subjugation rushed to place this yoke on the shoulders of others. Over the generations in which we were persecuted and exiled and slaughtered, we learned not only the pain of exile and subjugation, but also contempt for tyranny. Was that only a case of sour grapes? Are we now nurturing the dream of slaves who wish to reign?

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berl_Katznelson#Biography And prior to the State of Israel having been established , Jews and Arab Palestinians lived in a state of peace with one another . https://972mag.com/before-zionism-the-shared-life-of-jews-and-palestinians/118408/ I think that if I were a Palestinian leader , I would seriously consider supporting the Engagement Plan . I tend to believe that this would be of strategic value on the propaganda front , so far as causing a rift between the current government of Israel and its American Christian supporters . For if Jewish identity in Israel were shown to be tied to the religion of Judaism , as it stands currently , with Palestinian Arabs , whom are in reality of Jewish lineage themselves , being denied their status as Jews simply due to their religion , Christians as well as Muslims , and with Messianic Jews being denied the right to immigrate to Israel < https://kehilanews.com/2015/06/17/let-messianic-jews-make-aliyah-to-israel/ , http://m.jpost.com/Israel/Messianic-Jews-to-protest-discrimination , http://kehilanews.com/2017/08/24/us-report-pans-israels-treatment-of-messianic-jews-christians/ > , then Palestinians will end up looking like Saint Stephen the Martyr , while such "Christian Zionists " as John Hagee will be rightly seen as being like Judas Iscariot http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article35747.htm .

[Ter]

Trump administration to snap ties with Palestinians, no peace plan, no more monetary aid



The White House has decided to quietly withdraw from all its ties with the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority and Mahmoud Abbas.
DEBKAfile’s exclusive sources report that the Trump administration has resolved to scrap all ties with the Palestinian leadership in retaliation for its campaign against US President Donald Trump and his Jerusalem policy. Several warnings to Mahmoud Abbas (Abu Mazen) of what was in store if he did not desist from castigating the US president fell on deaf ears.
Last week, two Arab crown princes, Saudi Muhammed bin Salman and UAE Sheikh Muhammed bin Zayed, summoned Abbas to their capitals and urged him strongly to back away from his attacks on President Trump. He got the same advice from the ruler of Qatar, Sheikh Tamim Al Thani, who conferred with Washington on the subject – all to no avail. The Trump administration has therefore set out an eight-point program of sanctions, which is first revealed here:

The Israeli-Palestinian peace plan under preparation in Washington will not be submitted to Ramallah – only to Israel and the relevant Arab governments.
US-Palestinian interaction is to be suspended – not just at the senior levels but in day-to-day interchanges. The administration has notified Palestinian and other Arab parties to stop addressing queries on political and economic matters to the US consulate in Jerusalem, because they will not receive answers.
The status of the PLO office in Washington will be reevaluated with a view to shutting it down.
Palestinian officials will no longer be invited to Washington by the US government, including the State Department and Department of Treasury.
Above all, they will not be welcome at the White House or the National Security Council where US Middle East policy is designed. Senior US officials congratulated the senior Palestinian negotiator Saab Erekat, who also holds the PA’s American portfolio, on his recovery from illness, at the same time warning him that he would no longer be received at the White House.
The Trump administration will not make any public announcement of the cutoff of financial aid to the Palestinians. Since the funds are mostly earmarked for specific economic projects, each allocation will simply be held back on the pretext of the need for a “reappraisal.”
The US will halt its contributions to the UN Work and Relief Agency (UNWRA), an estimated one billion dollars per annum.
The US administration moreover intervened with the governments of Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi and Qatar with a request that they freeze or slow their economic aid to the Palestinian Authority.

According DEBKAfile’s sources, Palestinian officials in Ramallah were devastated by news of the sudden cutoff of the main sources of the PA’s revenue. Even the Qatar ruler, whom Abbas visited last week as a last resort to save the PA from economic meltdown, refused to release any more funding.

https://www.debka.com/trump-administrat ... etary-aid/

Actions cause reactions.
Let's see if some rich countries who expressed solidarity with the PLO will take up the financial slack.

[skinster]

The White House has decided to quietly withdraw from all its ties with the Ramallah-based Palestinian Authority and Mahmoud Abbas.

Excellent.

[pugsville]

What you posted as usual is your opinion. And it's a shit opinion since you support the murder of Israeli civilians including children and the elderly.

Here is an article from the Huffington Post, with @3 quite relevant about the status of Jerusalem.
Reality must be painful for the Arabs and the Arab supporters, even the fanatically obsessed like you.


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/te ... 0de8b066a2

10 Basic lies about the Isreal-Plaetsinain conflict. Just cobbled together crap that makes up the long running Israeli memization and pocket history of the conflict that drastically simplifies things and leaves out Israel and the Zionist actions that made this mess,


1/ The Zionist leadership "accepted" the partition plan, as pragmatic moves while actually invading and conquering the proposed Arab Partition state, engaging in wholesale massacres, and ethnic cleanings. There was no acceptance of a Palestinian state. The Zionist leadership were very expansionist, in talks with Britain and France prior to starting the 1956 war, for the West Bank, the Golan Southern Lebanon and the Sinai. Hmm places they would invade later and be very hesitant to give up.

2/ Israel embarked on a war of conquest before there was nay Arab intervention At no stage to Jordan invade Israel, it had strict orders to stay out of the Proposed Jewish partition state, Jordan and Israel were fighting to see who would get what of teh proposed Arab partition state.

4/ Israel ACTUALLY eliminated the Palestinian state. The were peace feelers form both Arab states and Israel , peace on their terms. If Israel had accepted the refugees back.

5/ Israeli prime ministers was also assented by his own sides extremists.

6/ Netanyahu says there will never be a Palestinian state. Meir says there no such things as Palestinians,

7/ What territorial sacrifices did Israel make to Jordan? Hey? Really?

8/ There is no historical connection between the Jews and Arab east Jerusalem. It' still claimed and illegally annexed as the 'eternal and undivided' capital of Israel. The Historical connection is a nonsense argument. Jewish people leaving Europe wanted and did too to the America in large numbers rather than go to Palestine. the Zionists movement was secular. And Historical connection is what in real terms? who lived where 2,000 years ago is an insane way to conduct politics now.


9/ the Gaza "withdrawal' was done at the same time as expansion into the west bank , putting more settlers in, and more land taken away. It was the Gaza-redepolyment, it was sold that way the settlers.


The Palestinains. are being occupied by the Israelis being denied their political, civil, property and human rights. Thats a fact. It's not the other way around. And they are occupied because Israel wants the land and is slowly taking it piece by price.

[Hindsite]

10 Basic lies about the Isreal-Plaetsinain conflict. Just cobbled together crap that makes up the long running Israeli memization and pocket history of the conflict that drastically simplifies things and leaves out Israel and the Zionist actions that made this mess,


1/ The Zionist leadership "accepted" the partition plan, as pragmatic moves while actually invading and conquering the proposed Arab Partition state, engaging in wholesale massacres, and ethnic cleanings. There was no acceptance of a Palestinian state. The Zionist leadership were very expansionist, in talks with Britain and France prior to starting the 1956 war, for the West Bank, the Golan Southern Lebanon and the Sinai. Hmm places they would invade later and be very hesitant to give up.

2/ Israel embarked on a war of conquest before there was nay Arab intervention At no stage to Jordan invade Israel, it had strict orders to stay out of the Proposed Jewish partition state, Jordan and Israel were fighting to see who would get what of teh proposed Arab partition state.

4/ Israel ACTUALLY eliminated the Palestinian state. The were peace feelers form both Arab states and Israel , peace on their terms. If Israel had accepted the refugees back.

5/ Israeli prime ministers was also assented by his own sides extremists.

6/ Netanyahu says there will never be a Palestinian state. Meir says there no such things as Palestinians,

7/ What territorial sacrifices did Israel make to Jordan? Hey? Really?

8/ There is no historical connection between the Jews and Arab east Jerusalem. It' still claimed and illegally annexed as the 'eternal and undivided' capital of Israel. The Historical connection is a nonsense argument. Jewish people leaving Europe wanted and did too to the America in large numbers rather than go to Palestine. the Zionists movement was secular. And Historical connection is what in real terms? who lived where 2,000 years ago is an insane way to conduct politics now.


9/ the Gaza "withdrawal' was done at the same time as expansion into the west bank , putting more settlers in, and more land taken away. It was the Gaza-redepolyment, it was sold that way the settlers.


The Palestinains. are being occupied by the Israelis being denied their political, civil, property and human rights. Thats a fact. It's not the other way around. And they are occupied because Israel wants the land and is slowly taking it piece by price.

This sounds very much like when the children of Israel conquered and took over the land God gave them in Old Testament history. History is repeating itself. Praise the Lord.

[Ter]

10 Basic lies about the Isreal-Plaetsinain conflict.

They are not lies. You just see things the other way and it seems as if you are emotionally involved.

If Israel had accepted the refugees back.

With the Arabs breeding like rabbits that would be the end of Israel as a Jewish State.

8/ There is no historical connection between the Jews and Arab east Jerusalem.

Really ? What about the Western Wall, the only remnant of the Jewish Temple.
To name but one place.

9/ the Gaza "withdrawal' was done at the same time as expansion into the west bank

I agree that the settlers were and are a very bad development. It should never have happened. At the same time I doubt that peace would have been possible if the West Bank would have been handed over because the Arabs do not want to accept a Jewish State even if it were only one square kilometre big.

[Hindsite]

I agree that the settlers were and are a very bad development. It should never have happened. At the same time I doubt that peace would have been possible if the West Bank would have been handed over because the Arabs do not want to accept a Jewish State even if it were only one square kilometre big.

You don't seem to understand that prophecy requires that Israel possess all the land. Praise the Lord.

[starman2003]

I agree that the settlers were and are a very bad development. It should never have happened.

Indeed but now it seems irreversible.

At the same time I doubt that peace would have been possible if the West Bank would have been handed over because the Arabs do not want to accept a Jewish State even if it were only one square kilometre big.

No doubt some Israelis said the same thing before Sinai was returned to Egypt.

[skinster]

Goodbye and Good Riddance
Holding hands, the US and Israel have decided to walk out of UNESCO. Nothing could be more appropriate. Two rogue states run by two dangerous buffoons. Two states that have wreaked immense violence across the Middle East ever since ‘Israel’ was implanted in Palestine. In addition to Palestine, the US has launched genocidal wars against three countries just since 1990, Iraq (twice), Libya and Syria and continues to back Saudi Arabia in its equally genocidal war on Yemen.

As for Israel, living permanently outside international law is a necessary condition of its existence. It should have been tossed out of the UN long ago, or at least suspended, until it mended its ways. After all, what club continues the membership of someone who does not obey the rules, is warned once, once, twice, thrice, even 50 times, but still refuses to obey the rules? But Israel does not have to mend its ways and remains a member of the ‘international community’ because another state that does not obey the rules, and shows no respect for international law either, the US, protects it at every level and in every way, fomenting even more violence.

UNESCO has done its best to protect the cultural heritage of Palestine. Nothing that is not Jewish matters to the Zionists and so little of it is Jewish that Muslim and Christian Palestine has been ravaged, not just once (1948) or twice (1967) but continuously. The destruction of Palestine is the necessary condition for the creation of Netanyahu’s ‘Jewish state.’ It is all or nothing: there can be no compromise, no either/or. The Palestinians have set forth options, one secular state, two states living side by side, but the only option acceptable to Israel is all Palestine for us and none for you.

The elimination of the Palestinian human presence in 1948 was accompanied by the destruction of close to 500 of Palestinian villages or hamlets, irrespective of their historical and cultural worth. More destruction followed after 1967, beginning with the demolition of the Magharibah quarter in 1967 to make way for a ‘plaza’ around the Haram al Sharif and continuing in the years that followed. The war also created the opportunity for more Palestinians to be driven out of their homeland, this time from the West Bank, where many had taken refuge during the Zionist onslaught in 1948.

The war was another opportunity to drive Palestine further into history, towards the point where the physical evidence had all been destroyed and the Zionists could say ‘What Palestine? There was never a Palestine here.’ In fact this is what they have been saying all along, anyway, convincing no-one outside their own ranks because the Palestinians have not gone away, because their numbers are increasing (possibly there are now more Palestinians between the Mediterranean sea and the Jordan River than the Zionist settler population) and because too much of their history can still be seen on the landscape. This is why the danger to Al Aqsa, glowing above Jerusalem, is so great because it is the living symbol of the lies being told by the Zionists.

On this subject how intriguing it is, and how frustrating for the Zionists, that in the half century they have been burrowing under and around the Haram al Sharif they have not found one object proving that the temple was ever there. There are far older structures whose ruins can be seen today. Turkey is full of them: the excavated temple at Gobeklitepe in south-eastern Turkey is 12,000 years old so how can it be that nothing is left of the grandiose structure said to have been built by Solomon where Al Aqsa now stands? The Bible speaks of a building more than 60 meters high, built from wood (the cedars of Lebanon) and huge blocks of stone. Similar material is said to have been used in the building of the second temple, completed in 515 BC and destroyed by the Romans in AD 70. It is said to have been of the same massive dimensions yet nothing has been found, no remnants of fallen stone pillars, no votive bowls, absolutely nothing, suggesting that if the temple did stand on this site the biblical descriptions were fantastically exaggerated (no surprise in a book full of fantastic exaggerations).

Furthermore, the modern day Zionists are connected to ancient Israel only by their religion. Their first colonists had no living connection with the land and no ethnic connection with the people who lived on it. Zionists continue to play on the living Jewish connection in Palestine over the centuries but do not mention that the Jews who were there when their forefathers arrived regarded Zionism as a heresy. Netanyahu’s claim that Jerusalem has been Israel’s capital for 3000 years could convince only idiots, seeing that Israel is only seven decades old and that the last Jewish state in Palestine collapsed in the sixth century BC.

In any case, irrespective of these questions, the ancient Jewish presence in Palestine cannot be accepted as justification for the destruction of what was there until the arrival of Zionist colonists in the late 19th century.

The Zionists share with the Crusaders the unsavory distinction of bringing to Palestine the greatest destruction known in its modern history. After conquering Palestine in the late 11th century the Crusaders massacred or drove all Muslims and Jews out of Jerusalem. The restitution of Muslim rule was followed from the early 16th century by four centuries of a long Ottoman peace until the British capture of Jerusalem in December, 1917. From that time onwards, Palestine has not known a day of peace. Violence and repression by the British occupiers was followed by massive violence, repression and dispossession by the Zionists, continuing down to the present day.

Jerusalem was always a prime target. Massacres and the seizure of Palestinian property in 1948 were repeated after the seizure of the eastern half of the city in 1967, followed by a continuing racist demographic war launched in complete breach of international law and the laws of any country claiming to be called civilized. What this underlines is that at heart Israel is not a modern state but a tribal, atavistic community that lives by its own brutal standards, certainly insofar as the Palestinians are concerned, and is indifferent to what the rest of the world thinks, when not actually contemptuous of what it thinks. For the Zionists to think that they can get away with this endlessly is a sure indication of the madness and delusions in their minds.

The US has now gone so far as to ‘recognize’ Jerusalem as Israel’s capital when in international law, Jerusalem is an occupied city, all of it, not just the eastern half, captured by force of arms and settled in direct violation of the laws or war. Commenting on the UN General Assembly vote rejecting the Trump declaration, Nikki Haley, the US ambassador, openly threatened those who had voted in its favor. Names had been taken and punishment would be inflicted at the appropriate time. By voting for the resolution UN members had shown a lack of respect for the US, according to Haley: where, one might ask, is US respect for international law and the right of UN members to take independent decisions on the basis of that law?

The Trump declaration on Jerusalem has had an incendiary effect across the Middle East and amongst Muslims everywhere. It should be welcomed because it rips the last veil from the deceit known as the peace process. Mahmoud Abbas has had his nose rubbed in the dirt. The Saudi and Qatari governments, dealing with the Zionists behind the thinnest of veils, have had to fall into line on the question of Jerusalem. The Trump declaration has united Muslims across all divides.

By themselves, as brave as they are, as much fortitude and steadfastness as they have always shown, the Palestinians were never going to be able to defeat their enemies on their own. They were far too powerful. The road back to Palestine was always going to lead through the Arab world, as George Habash wrote in the 1950s, now to be extended, given the rise of Iran, to the Islamic world. Nasser fired up the Arab people in the 1950s and together, Hizbollah and Iran have again set an example of defiance of the US and Israel, so successfully that Israel is now well into preparations for the war intended to destroy them once and for all.

This will be an existential war for survival, an extremely violent war for which Israel has been making intensive preparations. It is warning of total destruction and Hasan Nasrallah is warning back that Hizbollah is ready with missiles that can reach any part of occupied Palestine. The stakes in Middle Eastern wars have never been higher, the possible consequences never graver and even potentially cataclysmic. The consequences of Trump’s declaration would have been so well known beforehand that it seems insufficient to call it stupid. Perhaps it was intended to bring on the war with Iran that Israel and the US have wanted for a long time.
http://www.palestinechronicle.com/goodb ... -riddance/

[Zagadka]

the US has launched genocidal wars against three countries just since 1990

lol, that is a bit of a stretch.

Guess the US doesn't have much use for education and science anymore, anyway.

[skinster]

Google the definition of genocide.

[Oxymoron]

Google the definition of genocide.

You will need a new word if you keep fucking with the chosen people

[skinster]

[pugsville]

They are not lies. You just see things the other way and it seems as if you are emotionally involved.

They are not factual statements generally. Mistruthsm deliberate leis, half truths, misleading, sure these an element of truth to most of them but overall it's a distortion.


The Refugees had a right to go home. This is the fundamental root of the conflict land and ethnic identity. the Zionist wanted that land but rejected the native population. The refugee problem was one of Israel's creation.


I said Arab east Jerusalem, which is the bulk of the Area "annexed" by Israel with the Greater Jerusalem.

"The Arabs", board brush.

The Israels conquered and suppressed any Palestinian state. They do not accept the existence of a Palestinian state.

Immigrants turn up in your country with the intent of setting up their own state, they refuse to sell land back to natives or employ them. They force 80% of the mantle population to leave. They engage in terrorism and ethnic cleansing. Context. The Zionists settlers and Israel were not disliked because they were jewish, but because of the many actions they took against the native population.

Would you accept rule by foreigners who only arrived in the last 10 years?

[Ter]

@pugsville
only the first sentence of the quote is mine, the rest is your own text,

You just repeated a couple of very biased and inaccurate pro-Arab arguments.

The Jewish State of Israel already exists for seventy years, not ten. in a short while, the majority of Israelis will have been born there, they know of no other country to go back to.
At the same time all Arabs claiming to be refugees from that area will in fact be third and fourth generation refugees, and refugee status cannot reasonably be passed on to the next generations.

[Zagadka]

[Hindsite]

"The Arabs", board brush.
The Israels conquered and suppressed any Palestinian state. They do not accept the existence of a Palestinian state.

The Arabs never declared a state in the area of Israel that the Romans renamed Palestine. Whereas, the Jews there took advantage of the British and UN situation after WWII and declared a Jewish state that they named Israel. So the fact that there is no official Palestinian state is the fault of the Arabs living there. I believed I mentioned this point in a previous post on that subject.

[Oxymandias]

@Hindsite

What is the state? What is official? I am of the opinion that the term "official" is nothing more than a status symbol rather than a true display of any ownership over a piece of territory, population, or polity. Power will not be found through the formalities of documents, empty words, or appealing titles. Power comes from action, it is displayed through acts of control and depending on how efficiently and how greatly one can effected the controlled entity, this determines not just how much control you have, but how effective you are at utilizing it.

And regarding the state? The state is the greatest act of officialism there is. It is the encompassing of an entire region within a simple, poorly defined term and is the greatest and cruelest joke to ever defile the souls of man, it holds up a mirror and shows that our destruction will not come from the hands which see to kill us but from the hands which desire to assist us. And in a futile attempt to sedate the hands instead put us on the trail for ruin, one which we can never return back from. And so that is the tragic end of this great saga known as humanity.

The state, like all official acts, doctrines, and traditions are figments of the human mind seeking a form of closure or a neat fitting title that fulfills the human urge to name and categorize everything. It provides the notion of stability and uniformity while simultaneously various and unpredictable along with first and foremost perpetuating a mindset that inaccurately reflects the dynamics of the area. Like officialism, the state ironically with it's attempts to effectively portray politics, fails to take one of it's most important factors. Power. Power is the central facet of the human theater and if you fail to take it into consideration, you have failed comprehending life itself.

Power is not just a core part of us, it is a core part of the universe. Power can be found in everything, it can be observed within the smallest atoms to the largest scale conflicts in the universe spanning galaxies. Power is an incentive system, it incentivizes us to change, grow, and develop by struggling for it and it rewards us with being able to choose our own destinies, it rewards us with control. Power does not have to be over something as trivial and trite as politics, you can use power to gain control over yourself, your world, your thoughts, your ideas, your work, your abilities, anything you can physically have power over is possible. Power cannot be ignored in any study or analysis of anything, it is always a factor.

Power

Power

Power

[Hindsite]

@Hindsite

What is the state? What is official?

As I understand it, a "state" is a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government. And "official" refers to the government authority, power, and responsibilities as set forth by an authorized, enforceable, and accepted document. Yes, you are correct that police and military power is necessary as part of any official state to provide defense and enforce the laws enacted by that state government.