[noir]

Palestinan children indoctrinated to kill unarmed praying Jews. When this children are harmed they are whinnig for Taqqya propose. This clip is from an American non Jewish page. Unlike in antisemitic Europe, most of the Americans judge the ME with clear mind.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

How you feel is irrelevant to the fundamental laws of power. Even if you were to be right, there won't ever be a modern population which condones genocide and there hasn't been a single civilization nay any human being who has accommodated others without anyone accommodating him. Israel for the time being serves as a decent pawn for American influence in the Middle East but once the Middle East is no longer worth the time, resources, and bad PR gained from influence-producing actions in the ME, the US or any human nation for that matter will withdraw support of Israel and no generalizations, denial, racism, foul language, feelings, propaganda, name-calling, or text will change that inevitability.

These things (as listed above) and all of the actions of the right only delays the course of history, it does not change it.

[noir]

Unlike Europe, who since 1973 gladly fall for Arab propaganda, the Americans kniw what this map means.

[Ter]

Source?

Rebuffing Israel, U.S. Allows Censure Over Settlements

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/23/worl ... -vote.html

UNITED NATIONS — Defying extraordinary pressure from President-elect Donald J. Trump and furious lobbying by Israel, the Obama administration on Friday allowed the United Nations Security Council to adopt a resolution that condemned Israeli settlement construction.

I'll allow Norman Finkelstein to explain why the above quoted is hasbara:

I have already seen the arguments by Norman Finkelstein.

He is correct of course.
It is also correct to assume that other people have other ideas.
When looking at a problem, it is wise to look at the arguments from both sides.
Just calling everything you do not like "hasbara" is the easy way out.
Calling me hasbara is ridiculous because I got neither money nor instructions about what to post.
If it is true that some people get paid to post certain things like what I post then I am a fool to do it free of charge.
(hey, whoever,start paying me)

@Oxymandias
Even if such a time will come to pass that the US will stop supporting Israel, there will not be a crumbling of the regime. Israel is perfectly capable of defending itself on its own, if necessary by extraordinary means (...). As was the case in the past, there are other players out there who will not hesitate to chose the Israeli side for geopolitical reasons. Your feely feelings for the Arabs and/or Muslims are of no significance whatsoever, as much as you shed bitter tears for the loser side in the Middle East. (see? we can both play that game of feelings...)

Your talk about genocide is totally ridiculous. You are just aping the propaganda of the anti Israel zealots.

[skinster]

It is also correct to assume that other people have other ideas.
When looking at a problem, it is wise to look at the arguments from both sides.
Just calling everything you do not like "hasbara" is the easy way out.
Calling me hasbara is ridiculous because I got neither money nor instructions about what to post.
If it is true that some people get paid to post certain things like what I post then I am a fool to do it free of charge.
(hey, whoever,start paying me)

You're regurgitating zionist propaganda and are therefore in the habit of posting hasbara. This isn't a "both sides" thing unless you're talking about the two sides of the oppressor and the oppressed. It's clear you support the oppressor but you don't need to ramble on about how everyone thinks different things about X or Y and that all versions are valid, when that's obvious bullshit. You are wrong and I am right here. You're promoting fascism while I stand with the oppressed.

I wonder if Anne Baltzer could explain it to you:

As for you getting upset that Obama condemned illegal settlement building - while not doing a single fucking thing to penalize this crime - you should be kissing that guy's feet for what he allowed Israel to get away with (3 massacres of the people of Gaza under his rule).

[foxdemon]

@Ter

How you feel is irrelevant to the fundamental laws of power. Even if you were to be right, there won't ever be a modern population which condones genocide and there hasn't been a single civilization nay any human being who has accommodated others without anyone accommodating him. Israel for the time being serves as a decent pawn for American influence in the Middle East but once the Middle East is no longer worth the time, resources, and bad PR gained from influence-producing actions in the ME, the US or any human nation for that matter will withdraw support of Israel and no generalizations, denial, racism, foul language, feelings, propaganda, name-calling, or text will change that inevitability.

These things (as listed above) and all of the actions of the right only delays the course of history, it does not change it.

Wth due respect, I must say you are mistaken.

The reason why Anglo-Saxon’s support Jews is that we are in the same boat. We are both market dominant minories whom most of the world harbours prejudice. Do not be surprise if we continue supporting Jews even if it costs us the animosity of the majority. It’s like as if you wlll give us a fair go, right! As if....

If you are waiting for the Anglo-Saxon nations to abandon Israel, my advice to you is not to hold your breath.

[Ter]

I wonder if Anne Baltzer could explain it to you:

I tried, I really did...
I got to two minutes into it and then I had seen and heard it all : the separation wall, the check points, the separate road, the occupation, ... . It is the jargon of the anti Israel zealots.
All these problems for the Arabs are brought upon by themselves. The wall was built to stop suicide terrorists from entering Israel, the checkpoints are there to stop terrorists from entering Israel, the separate roads to stop attacks by Arabs on Israelis, and so on.
But your videos play to the feely feelings of the people, to show a baby, a child, a mother, suffering the consequences from the violent terrorism perpetuated by their own people.
It does not work any more.
Every stabbing, every bomb, every rocket increases the majority of the ultra right political parties in Israel.

You are not doing too bad with the propaganda either:

You're regurgitating zionist propaganda... posting hasbara....the oppressor and the oppressed. It's clear you support the oppressor ... obvious bullshit. You are wrong and I am right here. You're promoting fascism while I stand with the oppressed.

Your insults and jargon are to me like water on a duck's back.
I maintain there are two sides to this story.

[noir]

Wth due respect, I must say you are mistaken.

The reason why Anglo-Saxon’s support Jews is that we are in the same boat. We are both market dominant minories whom most of the world harbours prejudice. Do not be surprise if we continue supporting Jews even if it costs us the animosity of the majority. It’s like as if you wlll give us a fair go, right! As if....

If you are waiting for the Anglo-Saxon nations to abandon Israel, my advice to you is not to hold your breath.

This is one reason. But it started with the bible. Most of Christian churches are antisemitic who don't believe or read the Old Testament. The protestant Anglo churches are in extraordinary minority view in Christianity. Today, the Anglican church in Britain is quite close to traditional antitisemitic Christian dogma.

[starman2003]

haha that is exactly what you and some others are hoping for.
Well don't hold your breath because that is definitely not going to happen.

OK fine, let Israel go ahead on its current course, and consummate the ethnic cleansing scheme. It may take decades, but we'll see what ultimately happens.

[Rich]

Today, the Anglican church in Britain is quite close to traditional antitisemitic Christian dogma.

Christianity is not anti Semitic that's ridiculous. Its certainly true that some parts of the Gospels imply that Jesus was a Galilean and not Jewish, but Gallileans were Semites, Samaritans were Semites. Much of the old testament scripture was originally written in Hebrew a Semitic language. I'm not anti-semitic but I am virulently anti-Semtism. Semitism is the racist ideology that the creator of the universe entrusted his instructions for humanity to Semites, whether Israelite, Jewish or Arab. As an anti racist I oppose this disgusting and hideous ideology.

We have absorbed Jewish racist exceptionalist terminology. i have recently realised the racist nature of the term Zionism, we don't need a special term for Jewish nationalism any-more than we need a special term for anti Jewish sentiment. American nationalists also play the special snow flake card, calling their nationalism patriotism. Its like how you get American racist filth who think that other nations should look up to Thomas Jefferson as a superior moral example and leader.

You see I don't have problem with Genghis Khan, but then Mongolian nationalists are not asking me to revere Genghis as some great moral, philosophical and social icon. You might notice that I part company with Neo Nazis, the moment they start trying to sell Adolph Hitler as some sort of peace mongering, human universalist.

[noir]

@starman2003 Why do you use their Taqyyia terminology?

The only ethnic cleansing in the ME is this.

[noir]

[Drlee]

I think part of the problem is that the people of the ME can't imagine that we (the US) could side against them while they are lobbing rockets at children, throwing rocks at soldiers, perpetrating terror in the name of their official national religions and taking to the streets screaming "death to America". They are blaming us for every ill in the world.

Meanwhile Israel is not exporting terror. It is a peaceful nation simply trying to survive within a region where the official policy of the regional powers is that they should be destroyed. We would side with Luxembourg against the EU if the rhetoric was as hateful against them as it is from the Islamic nations of the middle east.

More knowledgeable Americans know that these shitty regimes need a great Satan to redirect the anger of their people and focus it on someone other than their own guilty selves. The US is far from blameless. Many of us believe that the attack on Iraq was a huge mistake. But understand this. We believe it was a mistake not because of innocent people in Iraq or some sense of blamelessness on the part of Saddam Hussein. He and his Baathist regime had much to answer for. We believe it was a mistake because these very Baathists were able to keep a stopper in the powder keg that was Iraq and serve as a counterbalance to Iran. Saddam's mistake was not in seeking WMD. It was in changing sides and attacking our allies physically and us rhetorically. And he hung for his temerity.

Why is it that the US is expected to act counter to its own interest? Simple. We have, unlike the majority of countries, done it before in the service of a higher ideal. Much is expected from us in that regard. We are seen as restoring Europe for example, when we could have divided it up and controlled at least half of it. We gave away the Panama Canal when we could easily have kept it. And more.

The US knows that turning its back on Israel will be far more than unpopular at home. It will be loosing our one ally in the region. We know that were we to physically dislodge the Jews from Israel and hand the entire country over to the Palestinians it would gain us not one thing. We know that Islam is on a collision course with Christendom whether we are an overtly religious country or not. That the decision to do this is inherent in the doctrines of Islam and not a response to anything we do or have done. Why don't we open our borders to large numbers of Islamic refugees? Well duh. Perhaps we see better than other of our allies. We see how well it is working out in Europe. And finally. We see absolutely NO effort toward peace in the Middle East from any government there ever. (Sadat had us fooled for a year or so then....) We have to beg to get some "moderate Arab" whatever that is to show up at Camp David and put on a show for the camera.

So we back the horse that runs for us. Even if that horse kicks us every now and then. This is far more than some notion of a powerful 'Jewish lobby". There is that but not nearly so powerful and many think. Certainly not with the Republican Party which which they only grudgingly interact. The cold hard fact of life is that the American people, despite the 'its only a few bad Muslims' rhetoric, simply do not love people who hate them and say so on a daily basis... Who do next to nothing to discourage terrorism or openly support it....Who when helped by us can't wait to bite the hand that feeds them... and whose religion is seen to advocate for the destruction of not only our government but of the values we hold dear.

In short. We don't like people who hate us and our committed to our destruction. And this seems to surprise the whole world.

[noir]

@Drlee

Americans are not uniform nation. Many blue states harboring Jihadism.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

I haven't stated that this will be Israel's undoing but it will contribute to it and I bet that there will be other nations that will ally with Israel however they're choices of patronship is limited to either China or Russia, two countries which seem to lean more closelyvto supporting Iran rather than supporting Israel due to a lack of common heritage.

Israel will go the way of Islamic Spain. When the US, the longest patron of Israel under Trump relieves support, it would be a message to Israel to stop and so Israel will become domesticated and, like Islamic Spain, become a part of the Middle East. When American influence in the Middle East weakens the nations within it will be given a chance to breath and develop themselves. Israel is still a threat of course and so there will always be attempts at its destruction. Unlike Islamic Spain, Israel is not on an relatively isolated peninsula capable of not causing too much trouble for surrounding countries so wars will be common. Eventually, when Israel, like all nations, weakens at some point with no major power behind it, like Spain it will be prey to the newly powerful MidEast countries that have emerged during that period.

@foxdemon
You do realize that Anglo Saxons are the majority in America and that it was Germany that killed off most of the Jewish population and it was Britain and America which were the Nazi's most vocal supporters. The idea of a Judo-Christian culture is simply historical revisionism applied to a conservative political view.

Interests are more important than relations. It situation in the ME will tell you that.

@Drlee

I would like to have more in depth conversation with you if you're willing. I unfortunately am typing this post on my phone so I am unable to go too deep into this right now but I would just like you to know that there's a huge post coming your way hopefully at a moments notice. I think it's time you listen to what a person in the ME really thinks and not listen to what people have been telling you about us.

[noir]

Israel will go the way of Islamic Spain. When the US, the longest patron of Israel under Trump relieves support, it would be a message to Israel to stop and so Israel will become domesticated and, like Islamic Spain, become a part of the Middle East. When American influence in the Middle East weakens the nations within it will be given a chance to breath and develop themselves. Israel is still a threat of course and so there will always be attempts at its destruction. Unlike Islamic Spain, Israel is not on an relatively isolated peninsula capable of not causing too much trouble for surrounding countries so wars will be common. Eventually, when Israel, like all nations, weakens at some point with no major power behind it, like Spain it will be prey to the newly powerful MidEast countries that have emerged during that period.

Europe will go the way of Islamic Spain before Israel.

[skinster]

Meanwhile Israel is not exporting terror. It is a peaceful nation simply trying to survive

It was built on terrorism and conducts the same today. Including towards Christians, who apparently you don't give a shit about because I don't know, you love the genocidal state of Israel more than your fellow Christians.

The patriarch of Jerusalem launches a warning message: Christians in Jerusalem are threatened with extinction by Israel

[noir]

@Oxymandias , have you watched this interview? The identity of the 3,500 yr people is much stronger than you may think. No one know what will bring the future but you treat this ancient people as it was a feckless European country

[Thomasmariel]

Israel and all other states shouldn't exist, because all Palestinians are able to want to be planets

[Politiks]

@starman2003 Why do you use their Taqyyia terminology?

The only ethnic cleansing in the ME is this.

Same can be said about Christians,they are a rare product in the Middle East these days and that was not the case 30-40 years ago.

Jews are only safe inside Israel and that says a lot.