[Crantag]

A state derives its legitimacy, as a state, from the recognition of the sovereignty of its declared government over a specific territory, by other states (which are also recognized within the international state system).

That's why during the American Civil War, the Confederates sought continuously (though unsuccessfully) to receive recognition from Britain and France.

In the international hierarchy of states, states are not equal, and the recognition by some states is more prestigious than others.

It's not as Thucydian as some ideological realest believe. Thucydian logic, if actual, would mean a system deprived of leeway or nuance, and that's not realistic. However, international political realism is in large measure legitimate in my view.

It's a consensus based system, that is state recognition, but it's based on the consensus of governments and not any 'citizens' (and governments operate on the basis of crafted policy and laws, and institutional arrangement, not logical thought like humans).

In large measure, things are the way they are, because they are the way that us now living have found them.

As humans, we simply navigate these systems as a way of getting along.

Hence, the system as it is now is not as it once was, or as it will later be.

I personally sympathize with the ideal of change being accompanied by effort to limit the attendant disruption and discomfort, just as a general matter.

[skinster]

The Jewish State of Israel

I laughed at this before, but apparently Zag felt like deleting that post. But why?

Explain this shit.

Israel is not a "Jewish state" and it can't be unless you support further ethnic cleansing. How else can it be a Jewish state?

[Ter]

Israel is not a "Jewish state" and it can't be unless you support further ethnic cleansing. How else can it be a Jewish state?

It is a Jewish State like Iran or Indonesia or Bangladesh are Muslim states.
The overwhelming majority there is Muslim, or Jewish (80%) in the case of Israel.
But you are free to deny it of course and post some more emoticons, maybe re-tweet a little.

[Crantag]

Based on the description I gave above of states, if I'm not mistaken on the details I believe that means in effect Israel is 'legitimate' within the 1967 boarders, in consideration of the norms of the international states system; though not beyond.

Israel probably has a legal claim to self-defense with respect to operating in the occupied territories, settlement encouragement would seem against the spirit of Israel's international obligations.

With that being said, immigration is not so simple a matter, and no states are really effective at controlling it, even including North Korea. What's more, I had a professor tell a class I was sat in once that in England, the extension of universal suffrage to all males (regardless of land ownership) was what effectively led to the emergence of the 'blood-and-guts' British Empire, because the common people had relatives all over the Empire, and they would never vote to cut them off. So here is an instance where the concerns of the people, in that case the British and in this case the Israelis, with respect to the policy toward their countrymen in the settlements is of relevance to the political situation.

So, I suppose the conflict will persist.

[LehmanB]

I agree that the settlers were and are a very bad development. It should never have happened.

Why do opponents of Israel are against settlements? Thats a tough question (for me).

1. Although pugsville is obsessed with his colonial borders, the "green line" is not a line- its a zone. Around Israel borders there is a large area which is unsafe and unpleasent and perifferal. It is shown best with the border of Gaza and Lebanon- a few miles around it is a poor war zone. Means the normal Israel was very very small, cleaning the impacts of the border- and Jerusalem was isolated and a border town.

When the borders moved, the former green line became central, with economic movement and transportation and safe, so the former small country could fulfill its potential. The Jewish sitting inside the new areas contributed to the Israeli rule, supported and backed the army and governing there, and contributed to daily life and economics with the Arab population. Also, it dragged the attention toward the settelements, whereas before that the proper Israeli territory was under fire. We see the reverse resault in Gaza: before the expel of the Jews in 2005, there were clashes inside Gaza strip. After 2005, there started to be rockets outside, onto Israel proper, as we back to the dangerous times in the first two decades.

Now many Jews live exactly on the green line, so called not annexing anything- but it means the "Taliban" state can't kiss it anymore.

2. The largest impact though is the settelments created a process of growth in Israel- it created an area where mainly religous Jews live, and their central city is Jerusalem. Jerusalem is the center of Judea and Samaria, while Tel Aviv is the central transportation link of the shore. Hence making Jerusalem a central area, and suddenly a new area which is not around Tel Aviv, allowed to create a new culture in Israel, the rise of the new Orthodox, who are not ultra orthodox- but modern, go to the military, work, educated- and nationalists and religious. This makes a cultural diversity in Israel and strengthen the nation, and prevents Tel Aviv to be the single caltural footprint.

All of this lead to increase of Jewish birthrate. The expand on territory and the rise of Orthodox also influenced the secular Jews to make more babies, as they feel wiht a competition, or more driven. The more perifferal areas, the more babies. Thats also an impact of been a larger state, and not a city-state. Hence although it created a demographic problem, of facing a 35% percentage of Arabs, it also increased the Jewish growth. in 2016 for the first time Jewish birthrate is larger than Arab-Muslim birthrate! Which is revolutionary.

Now you can either focus on the Jewish growth, or on the Arab threat, but one thing I know- anti Zionists/ anti- semites can't stand the Jewish settlements. I think sub conciously, they are most afraid of Jewish growth process, and religious revive, which in turn might turn Israel into more dangerous country since it will have more veriaty of strengthes.@noir

[Ter]

@LehmanB
You gave me a lot to think about. Thanks.

I am not sure that those ultra orthodox Jews are a big asset for Israel. They refuse to do their military service and make life difficult for the secular Jews, e.g. no Egged buses on Saturday !

It seems to me that a status quo is inevitable because there appears to be no workable, acceptable or realistic solution to the problem from either side.

[Oxymandias]

@Hindsite

That is a considerably broad term one, if under scrutiny, could be meaningless. If this is the case, than the region of Palestine was an organized political community under one government, and I don't mean the Ottomans. The Turks allowed the Levant autonomy even letting them have semi-sovereignty.

However Israel, when it was first established, was not enforceable. It was an empty document that did nothing. This is what official has become, an empty term that only gains meaningless prestige amongst certain groups of people. For example, Trump recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Trump had no need to do such a thing, Jerusalem was already Israel's de facto capital. Recognizing it is only a useless formality that would only spur much of the country into an angry riot. If I were Trump I would refrain from recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital while providing unanimous support for Israel and only alluring to being partial towards Israel. This is an example of an official document being worthless and more dangerous than simply acknowledging de facto power.

I do not simply mean police and military power. Cultural, diplomatic, and political power are all necessary and the term "state" does not take that into consideration.

[skinster]

Israel probably has a legal claim to self-defense with respect to operating in the occupied territories, settlement encouragement would seem against the spirit of Israel's international obligations.

So here is an instance where the concerns of the people, in that case the British and in this case the Israelis, with respect to the policy toward their countrymen in the settlements is of relevance to the political situation.

Why do opponents of Israel are against settlements?

but one thing I know- anti Zionists/ anti- semites can't stand the Jewish settlements. I think sub conciously, they are most afraid of Jewish growth process, and religious revive,]

The illegal settlements are placed on top of territory that belongs to a Palestinian state, something Israel is yet to recognize, since the plan is to take over all of what a Palestinian state was meant to be and never allow for one. Israel is of course violating international laws by building these colonies on the West Bank and in East Jerusalem and of course being in these two areas. These are actual crimes according to the law, that Israel gets away with.

Ethnic cleansing persists in Palestine while zionists pretend they're victims of racism. How bizarre.

[skinster]

Zionists make clear their theft of all of Palestine:

Israeli Ruling Party Votes to Annex West Bank and Seize Last Palestinian Lands
The latest radical move by hardline Zionists in Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party could see Israel´s government annex all of the occupied West Bank, incorporating most of historic Palestine into the Israeli state.

The central committee of the right-wing party overwhelmingly voted on Sunday for a resolution urging Likud parliamentarians to push for the annexation of the territories that are already illegally-held.

The non-binding vote by the party's decision-making committee also called on its MPs "to spread Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria (the West Bank)," the biblical terms used by Jewish radical settlers to refer to the occupied Palestinian regions.

“This is a historic event that we have been waiting for,” Likud extremist Natan Engelsman told Focus Information Agency.

“If the president of the United States believes Jerusalem is ours, there is no reason why a right-wing party and coalition cannot. It’s important for us to show Trump what the ruling party in Israel wants, and since he loves the Jewish people, sooner or later, he will come to the same conclusion,” the activist added.

Netanyahu, a member of the central committee, was not present for the vote.

While the prime minister claims he still supports a “two-state solution” with the people of Palestine who have faced seven decades of continuous dispossession, he has also pushed for Jewish settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank, a move that is illegal even in the courts of the Israeli occupation state.

According to Palestine's Land Research Center, this year alone the Israeli government illegally seized approximately 2,500 acres of Palestinian land, destroyed 500 buildings and constructed eight new Jewish settlement units in 2017, according to Palestine's Land Research Center. The expansionist moves also saw 900 incidents of Israeli violence, including attacks by Israeli security forces on East Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque.

Settlement activity also tripled this year compared to the previous year: in 2015, 1,982 homes were built for settlers; in 2016, 2,627; and in 2017, around 6,500 houses were built.

In October, Netanyahu postponed a vote on a controversial bill that critics say would amount to the de facto annexation of Israeli settlements surrounding Jerusalem.

On Christmas Eve, Israeli Minister of Public Works and Housing Yoav Galant declared that a plan would be put into place to build 300,000 new houses in East Jerusalem under the name of "housing on the land of united Jerusalem, the capital of Israel.”

Many analysts expected bolder expansionist moves by the right-wing head of state, especially in light of U.S. President Donald Trump's announcement that Washington would move its embassy to Jerusalem – a gesture that was tantamount to a U.S. recognition of unilateral Israeli claims to the divided and unlawfully-held Arab city.

The U.S. announcement was welcomed by the Israelis, who have been working alongside Saudi Arabia in hopes to pressure the Palestinian Authority to accept Donald Trump's so-called Arab-Israeli “deal of the century” that has not yet been announced. The “deal” would see the Palestinian question settled in exchange for the normalization of ties between Tel Aviv and the Gulf monarchies and the integration of Israel into the regional “family of nations” that the Saudis claim leadership over.

According to regional reports, Saudi King-in-waiting and Crown Prince Mohamed Bin Salman has attempted to present Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas with an ultimatum whereby he must accept the U.S.-Israeli-Saudi plan for the region or resign. Abbas has also faced Israeli and Saudi pressure to halt the rapprochement process between Palestinian factions Hamas and his own Fatah movement but has rejected such pressure.

In early December, a Palestinian official told The New York Times that the Saudis floated the idea of compensating the Palestinians for the loss of West Bank territory by adding territory to the Gaza Strip from Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, an arid and rocky desert territory plagued by attacks by the Islamic State group, who frequently attack Palestinian targets. The Egyptians have rejected the idea, according to a western official.


“This is a historic event that we have been waiting for,” an extremist member of Prime Minister Netanyahu's Likud Party said.

The latest radical move by hardline Zionists in Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's Likud Party could see Israel´s government annex all of the occupied West Bank, incorporating most of historic Palestine into the Israeli state.

ANALYSIS:
Homeland Insecurity: Palestine's Refusal to Die Haunts Israeli Colonial Celebrations

The central committee of the right-wing party overwhelmingly voted on Sunday for a resolution urging Likud parliamentarians to push for the annexation of the territories that are already illegally-held.

The non-binding vote by the party's decision-making committee also called on its MPs "to spread Israeli sovereignty over Judea and Samaria (the West Bank)," the biblical terms used by Jewish radical settlers to refer to the occupied Palestinian regions.

“This is a historic event that we have been waiting for,” Likud extremist Natan Engelsman told Focus Information Agency.

“If the president of the United States believes Jerusalem is ours, there is no reason why a right-wing party and coalition cannot. It’s important for us to show Trump what the ruling party in Israel wants, and since he loves the Jewish people, sooner or later, he will come to the same conclusion,” the activist added.

Netanyahu, a member of the central committee, was not present for the vote.

While the prime minister claims he still supports a “two-state solution” with the people of Palestine who have faced seven decades of continuous dispossession, he has also pushed for Jewish settlement expansion in the occupied West Bank, a move that is illegal even in the courts of the Israeli occupation state.

RELATED:
Israel Tasks Saudi Arabia to Lead Peace Process With Palestine

According to Palestine's Land Research Center, this year alone the Israeli government illegally seized approximately 2,500 acres of Palestinian land, destroyed 500 buildings and constructed eight new Jewish settlement units in 2017, according to Palestine's Land Research Center. The expansionist moves also saw 900 incidents of Israeli violence, including attacks by Israeli security forces on East Jerusalem's Al-Aqsa Mosque.

Settlement activity also tripled this year compared to the previous year: in 2015, 1,982 homes were built for settlers; in 2016, 2,627; and in 2017, around 6,500 houses were built.

In October, Netanyahu postponed a vote on a controversial bill that critics say would amount to the de facto annexation of Israeli settlements surrounding Jerusalem.

On Christmas Eve, Israeli Minister of Public Works and Housing Yoav Galant declared that a plan would be put into place to build 300,000 new houses in East Jerusalem under the name of "housing on the land of united Jerusalem, the capital of Israel.”

Many analysts expected bolder expansionist moves by the right-wing head of state, especially in light of U.S. President Donald Trump's announcement that Washington would move its embassy to Jerusalem – a gesture that was tantamount to a U.S. recognition of unilateral Israeli claims to the divided and unlawfully-held Arab city.

The U.S. announcement was welcomed by the Israelis, who have been working alongside Saudi Arabia in hopes to pressure the Palestinian Authority to accept Donald Trump's so-called Arab-Israeli “deal of the century” that has not yet been announced. The “deal” would see the Palestinian question settled in exchange for the normalization of ties between Tel Aviv and the Gulf monarchies and the integration of Israel into the regional “family of nations” that the Saudis claim leadership over.

According to regional reports, Saudi King-in-waiting and Crown Prince Mohamed Bin Salman has attempted to present Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas with an ultimatum whereby he must accept the U.S.-Israeli-Saudi plan for the region or resign. Abbas has also faced Israeli and Saudi pressure to halt the rapprochement process between Palestinian factions Hamas and his own Fatah movement but has rejected such pressure.

In early December, a Palestinian official told The New York Times that the Saudis floated the idea of compensating the Palestinians for the loss of West Bank territory by adding territory to the Gaza Strip from Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, an arid and rocky desert territory plagued by attacks by the Islamic State group, who frequently attack Palestinian targets. The Egyptians have rejected the idea, according to a western official.

Netanyahu is also eager to secure a mandate from an increasingly racist public in an early election as he awaits possible criminal indictments against him on corruption suspicions for abusing his power for personal benefit. He denies wrongdoing.

Although parliamentary elections are not due until November 2019, police investigations in the two cases of alleged corruption against Netanyahu and tensions among partners in his governing coalition could hasten a poll, increasing pressure for the beleaguered leader to secure right-wing support.

The bill had been expected to be voted on by a ministerial committee in a move that would fast-track its progress through parliament.

Israel occupied the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, in the Six-Day War of 1967. It later annexed East Jerusalem in a move rejected by the international community. The occupation is still unrecognized.

It claims the entire city as its indivisible capital, but the Palestinians want the eastern sector as the capital of their future state.

About 600,000 Israelis live in over 230 illegal settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem among 2.9 million Palestinians, with frequent outbreaks of violence and brutal repression by the occupation authority.

By enacting civilian law over settlements, the move could streamline procedures for their construction and expansion. That land is currently under military jurisdiction and Israel's defense minister has a final say on building there.

In 1981, Israel enacted a civilian law on the Golan Heights, territory captured from Syria in 1967, a de-facto annexation of the strategic plateau. The move has not won international recognition.

Likud's central committee counts around 3,700 members, and according to Israeli media, some 1,500 were present for Sunday's vote.
https://www.telesurtv.net/english/news/ ... -0017.html

[Hindsite]

@Hindsite

That is a considerably broad term one, if under scrutiny, could be meaningless. If this is the case, than the region of Palestine was an organized political community under one government, and I don't mean the Ottomans. The Turks allowed the Levant autonomy even letting them have semi-sovereignty.

However Israel, when it was first established, was not enforceable. It was an empty document that did nothing. This is what official has become, an empty term that only gains meaningless prestige amongst certain groups of people. For example, Trump recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital. Trump had no need to do such a thing, Jerusalem was already Israel's de facto capital. Recognizing it is only a useless formality that would only spur much of the country into an angry riot. If I were Trump I would refrain from recognizing Jerusalem as Israel's capital while providing unanimous support for Israel and only alluring to being partial towards Israel. This is an example of an official document being worthless and more dangerous than simply acknowledging de facto power.

I do not simply mean police and military power. Cultural, diplomatic, and political power are all necessary and the term "state" does not take that into consideration.

Israel meets all the requirements of an official nation state, Palestine, at the present, does not. Trump is not only recognizing Jerusalem as the capital, he is moving our embassy to Jerusalem and other nations are planning to follow.

The illegal settlements are placed on top of territory that belongs to a Palestinian state, something Israel is yet to recognize, since the plan is to take over all of what a Palestinian state was meant to be and never allow for one. Israel is of course violating international laws by building these colonies on the West Bank and in East Jerusalem and of course being in these two areas. These are actual crimes according to the law, that Israel gets away with.

Ethnic cleansing persists in Palestine while zionists pretend they're victims of racism. How bizarre.

There is no Palestinian state and no ethnic cleansing of Arabs. There are plenty of Arabs in Saudi Arabia and other places in the world.

[skinster]

The vast majority of the world opposes this move and nothing is really happening besides some people saying "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel". That doesn't make it so.

[Hindsite]

The vast majority of the world opposes this move and nothing is really happening besides some people saying "Jerusalem is the capital of Israel". That doesn't make it so.

So you believe nothing is going to happen because the world is opposing it. That is nothing new. The Holy bible has predicted that the world would be against Israel in the last days over 2,000 years ago. HalleluYah

[skinster]

So you believe nothing is going to happen because the world is opposing it. That is nothing new. The Holy bible has predicted that the world would be against Israel in the last days over 2,000 years ago. HalleluYah

Yeah but the world isn't run with the idea of rapture, that's just a weird evangelical thing that unfortunately persists.

[Hindsite]

Yeah but the world isn't run with the idea of rapture, that's just a weird evangelical thing that unfortunately persists.

That is not new either.

[skinster]

[Hindsite]

Your Rabbi Shapiro is a blind Jew. He is like the Pharisees that attacked Christ for breaking the Sabbath law.

Some of the Pharisees said, “This man is not from God, for he does not keep the Sabbath.”

But others asked, “How can a sinner perform such signs?” So they were divided.
(John 9:16)

One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels.

Some of the Pharisees asked, "Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?"
(Luke 6:1-2)

They eventually called for Jesus to be put to death.

The Blind Jew

https://www.bereanbiblesociety.org/the-blind-jew/

[Zagadka]

You guys should probably take this to Spirituality. I'll clean up further off-topic lines.

[noir]

@Hindsite

It's well known Taqqyah tactic. To pit Dhimmi against Dhimmi

ISESCO AND THE MEDIA PLAN AGAINST ISRAEL


The objective of the Amman Conference was to establish a global strategy for the re-Islamization of Jerusalem (al-Quds), because, as one of the lecturers explained, “Jerusalem is the cornerstone of the spiritual edifice and the Zionist Jewish entity. Were it to be dislodged, the whole edifice and the Zionist entity itself would crumble like a deck of cards.”[39]

The lecturers emphasized the major importance of Muslim-Christian solidarity in the fight to seize al-Quds and to drive Israel out of Islam’s holy city. They proposed a whole range of schemes, including the adoption of the Muslim and Christian holy sites in al-Quds by all the mosques, churches, monasteries, and Muslim and Christian institutions the world over.


In the short-term the author also recommended:
1) Publicizing the history of Jerusalem since its foundation by the Canaanite Jebusites [sic] to date. This would be achieved through a systematic and intensive process that is easy to assimilate by the Western public opinion and that demands little time, material and mental effort. It would be based on accurate and documented information that relies on archeological
findings and credible documents or manuscripts, as well as on a rejection of the Torah-based history.

Other themes were:
Discreetly and indirectly encouraging trends critical of Zionism and the Israeli judaization policies in Jerusalem within Western circles and in a way that would prevent the targeting, isolation and annihilation of these trends by the Zionists movement and its concealed and visible tentacles. This would make possible the use of these trends as a pressure tool in confronting the Zionist lobby and the coalition of Jewish and Christian Zionists (neo- conservatives)[45] in defending the vital interests of their countries.

According to the lecturer Mr. Adnan Ibrahim Hassan al Subah, president of the Palestinian Jenin Information Center:
People familiar with the Torah, which we believe to have been distorted, know the extent of the evils they attribute to their prophets: corruption, treachery, fornication or approval of it. It is with these facts that we need to arm ourselves when we confront the Zionist propaganda in the world with tangible facts, as part of our defense of the faith and the faithful on earth, wherever they may be. (p. 254)
The lecturer had probably never read the Bible of which he speaks, since his allegations are fantasies. They are the seeds for fanning hatred among the illiterate, manipulating them and conditioning as he himself explains:
[T]his approach is more likely to establish a bond between the faithful of the earth. In our information efforts, we need to target the simple Jew and expose the anti-faith Zionist regime.
Mr. Al Subah doubtless was unaware that the Hebrew Bible is part of the basic religious texts of Christianity and that his insults about the Torah are also insults against more than two billion Christians, believers and non-believers, if only through the excessive ignorance they reveal.

Many antisemitic churches accepted this version of history, save the mainstream American protestant churches

In accordance with jihadist law, this formula eliminates all history and the rights of indigenous people prior to the Islamic conquest. World history began with Islam in the seventh century. But neither Jerusalem nor any town or region of Palestine is mentioned in the Koran or Sunna. Only the Bible recounts the history of this land linked to the people of Israel, beginning more than two millennia before the Koran and the birth of Muhammad.

The history of the Hebrews, according to the Koran, is the history of the Muslims before Muhammad. The Prophet maintained that the biblical characters are Muslim prophets, and that the Bible—both First and Second Testaments—is simply a falsification of the story of these biblical prophets who, in the Koran, were Muslims and preached Islam. They appear in the Koran, like Abraham, Moses, David, and Jesus, with Arabized names. But they are flimsy disembodied figures floating in fragments of undefined space-time, and featured in homilies.

The crime of the people of Israel is the creation of a compilation of books written over a period of centuries recounting the vagaries of their history, faith, legislation, and aspirations—completed more than a thousand years before the Koran was written and excoriated by Muslim orthodoxy as a falsification of the Koran. The same charges are brought against the Four Gospels assimilated with a different Koran, supposedly written by Jesus himself, who appears in the Koran as Isa and a great Muslim prophet and Islamic preacher. The Muslim designation of Jews and Christians as “People of the Book”—in the singular—derives from this assimilation of religion with a book, an object endowed with exceptional status in the illiterate pagan Arabia of the seventh century. Jews and Christians, guilty of falsifying Islam, the one true religion taught by their Muslim prophets, are condemned to ignominious dhimmitude to expiate their stubbornness until they return to Islam, their first faith. Islam is true Judaism and true Christianity, the first and only monotheistic faith, preached for the good of all humanity. Muslims proudly claim to venerate and respect the prophets, including Jesus, without revealing that the objects of their veneration are Koranic versions of the originals that they reject. Though these Koranic figures wander in uncertain space with no geographical or temporal references, Muslims claim they lived in “Palestine,” on the basis of Jewish and Christian scriptures that they reject. It follows that biblical history is Islamic history usurped by Jews and Christians, and the land in which it took place—though inexistent and never mentioned in the Koran—is a Muslim land, and Jewish and Christian holy sites are all Muslim. Any Judaization of parts of Judea, Samaria, and the Galilee where every region, town, and village is mentioned in the Bible with historical and chronological precision, is sacrilegious to Muslims. They observe with destructive rage this unfolding return of history that they claim as their own, though they know nothing about it because it is not told in their Koran and sacred books. Any confirmation of the veracity of the Bible is seen as an attack on the Islamic authenticity of the Koranic figures taken from the Bible. Israel, in the land of its history, towns, and villages, resuscitates the Bible, the book the Koran must supplant. Determined to destroy Israel’s history and recover its Islamized past, Muslims construct, with the help of their European acolytes, Arabizing fables of the biblical past, including early fictive Christian history. This is the foundation of the war against Israel. As for the Christians, Islam teaches that they have gone astray by placing themselves in the lineage of the Hebrew Bible, because their real origin is Islam, with Isa, the Muslim Jesus mentioned in the Koran and the Sunna. Christians who betray Isa by rejecting his Koranic message, inventing the concept of the Trinity, are as diabolical as the Jews. Jesus belongs to Islam, not to Judaism, so Christianity too belongs to the Muslim world. This MuslimChristian relationship drives the hateful, outraged rejection of the term “Judeo-Christian” that ties Christianity to the Jewish Jesus of the Gospels—“born in Bethlehem of Judea”—and of the Bible. Jesus, they insist, belongs to Muslims and the Koran.

Source:Eurabia

[Hindsite]

@Hindsite

It's well known Taqqyah tactic. To pit Dhimmi against Dhimmi

Many antisemitic churches accepted this version of history, save the mainstream American protestant churches

Source:Eurabia

Okay, but Zag has pointed out that we are getting into the religious aspects of the subject, which probably belongs in Spirituality and not in this political news forum.

[skinster]