U.S. to Recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s Capital - Page 14 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14870285
Ter wrote:Whatever the case may be, one tyrant or another, Syria has been ruled by dictators,


There's no effective alternative, in Syria or Iraq. With unbelievable naivete, the neocons thought they knew better than Saddam about how to govern Iraq. The truth is, either there is a strong central authority, or there is national disintegration, giving rise to groups like ISIS.

and Egypt did close an international water way, which is equivalent to an act of war.


I don't know if the Egyptians had actually localized the means to close the strait of Tiran to Israeli shipping. In any event, it was a minor problem considering that Israel's main ports are on the Mediterranean.

It is very convenient to now say that all those Arab troop movements (together with the rhetoric and the rest) were "defensive".


This was known from the start. Read the books by Pollack, Dupuy, O'Ballance etc. Egypt had only two infantry divisions, behind defensive works, on the frontier. The bulk of the armor was much farther back.

Israel was so small they could not wait to see what would happen and struck first.


There was never the slightest possibility Israel would be eliminated. Before the war the US Joint Chiefs concluded Israel would win no matter what happened.


And they cleaned out the Arab armies and took the Sinai, the West Bank, the Golan and Jerusalem.


Right. There was no real danger; the Israelis just seized upon Nasser's move--for political reasons--to destroy arab forces and grab territory.

It does not look as if the Arabs will be peaceful even after getting all of those territories back because even before the 1967 war, the Arab neighbours could not accept even one inch of Israel as a Jewish State.


Nearly four decades of peace following the Egypt-Israel treaty is indisputable proof that the land for peace formula works. But Israel won't apply it to the Golan and west bank.
#14870288
Page 14. Another massive rehash thread. I don’t know how you lot do it tbh. They say the definition of insanity is doing something over and over and expecting different results.. :knife:
#14870296
I personally am hoping for a new Intifada. It might even be the spark for lighting up a new Arab spring! The Israeli apartheid state will surely not be stopped by peace negotiations and sectarian individual terror a la Hamas. There needs to be an uprising of the Arab masses.
#14870302
Your "front row seats" are shit when they keep feeding you bullshit. If you have an argument, make it, provide sources, but come at me with your ignorant arrogance and I will continue to call it out. You don't get free reign to talk bullshit just because you're old. I won't understand your perspective ever when it's ethnosupremacist, which is what zionism is.

Also, it was called the "6 day war" according to zionist mythology. It was bullshit. It has been proven to be bullshit. You're welcome to learn about it. All the information is there if you're willing to deviate from the Corporate-MSM.


Sure. That's real smart of you to keep with the buzz words you have been fed. You sound like a bee hive. And, of course, you would not want to hear about contemporary experience because it does not feed you the narrative you have been fed. (Note your absurd sources.) No I get it. Everyone who disagrees with you is just a dupe for the "Corporate-MSM". You sound like and are exercising the same tactics as your mentor, Donald Trump.

You also have a memory about as long as my....that is to say no memory at all. You have completely forgotten what I wrote at the beginning of this thread. You are just banging your preconceived notions off of people and not thinking at all. As for being old. Old people run the world. Get over it. Then you called me an "ethnosupremacist" [sic]. Give me a break. If I tried to make up a useless label, that would be it. But wait. I get it. I am an "ethnic" American. :roll:

The US is not your daddy and it does not always act as you would have it act. That is life in the food chain. But without the US we would not be having this discussion at all. The Palestinian territories would have been absorbed long ago, as have the loosing aggressors have been since the dawn of time.
#14870303
Ter wrote:Those few pro-Israeli editors do not control the Wikipedia in any significant way.
As with most of your posts, you are just rambling on and uttering clichee after clichee and posting some emotional tweets (with zero result, nobody is impressed)


Aw, I seem to have hurt your feelings by speaking the truth on the monstrosity in state-form, which you support.

As to whatever point you're trying to make, I'm going to go ahead and trust Miko Peled's recording of the minutes of the Israeli Generals meetings where they admitted the 1967 "war" was an opportunity to gain more land. This information has been released and it's not going anywhere just because you're still brainwashed by zionist propaganda. As if they won the "war" and all that territory in 6 days, while being under attack by apparently 7 Arab armies. :lol:

danholo wrote:Sarcasm isn't your strongest suit, I see. ;)


There's nothing sarcastic about it. It's an established fact now that Israel is an apartheid state. You denying it doesn't stop that from being a thing. We have all the videos. We have all the reports. I've posted them already. Let me know if you'd like me to do that again. Even honest zionists - I know that sounds like an oxymoron - are admitting Israel is an apartheid state. I wish you well in catching up.
#14870311
skinster wrote: As if they won the "war" and all that territory in 6 days, while being under attack by apparently 7 Arab armies. :lol:

For someone who is so obsessed with the Arabs, you lack basic understanding of the recent history.
The six day war was in 1967 and the independence war, where they fought and beat seven Arab armies, 1948. Indeed, your Arab friends are born losers, yesterday, today and tomorrow.
#14870315
Actually Israeli propaganda on 1967 was claiming it was 3, 5, 13+ armies at the time. Israeli propaganda claimed they were under existential threat by all its neighbours as well as ME and African states further away. Israeli propaganda then claimed it won this war against all these super scary armies, while it stole the rest of Palestine, (more than the 55% of Palestine that zionists were offered in 1948). Israel is either impervious to Arab armies or full of shit. We know the former isn't true since Israelis got their asses handed to them in Lebanon by a guerilla organization.

Israel peddles similar propaganda about Iran nowadays. Like it did for Iraq, Syria, Lebanon etc.

But anyway, as I said, Israeli generals themselves admitted their war of 1967 was enacted to take more land, and that's exactly what happened. They weren't under threat. This was just the completion of the theft of all of Palestine.
#14870408
skinster wrote: I've posted them already. Let me know if you'd like me to do that again.


Like? I'd love you to do it again. Please. With a cherry on top.

Ter wrote: Indeed, your Arab friends are born losers, yesterday, today and tomorrow.


It is a general attribute of the psyche - losers whine and complain, blame others for their own problems and incompetence. Many have come to worship this victim mentality. I'm tired of it.
#14870464
[quote="skinster"]^ what a load of hasbara bullshit. If you're going to make amazingly retarded claims, try to attach some sources, Nonsense. (btw your screen-name is fitting)

As an expression of historical FACT & personal opinion it is not necessary to name 'sources' just to satisfy some people's irrational prejudices.

I take note that you have a very limited intellectual capacity to make any coherent discourse to the debate on the subject in hand, save to waste space.
I leave it to the opinion of others to decide on the suitability(or otherwise)of my screen-handle.
#14870508
But anyway, as I said, Israeli generals themselves admitted their war of 1967 was enacted to take more land, and that's exactly what happened. They weren't under threat. This was just the completion of the theft of all of Palestine.


It's probably a quote from ex-Israeli BDS activist, Miko Peled, son of Six Day war general, Matti Peled. Mati Peled was one of the more hawkish generals who pushed for the war and pressured the Israeli government of Levi Eashcol to launch a strike, his son lost his mind after his niece was murdered by a Palestinian suicide bomber. It's a great psychological blow for a self style "peace activist". Today this damaged man is making his living from BDS lectures from there this BDS bot is taking its propaganda.

I take note that you have a very limited intellectual capacity to make any coherent discourse to the debate on the subject in hand, save to waste space.
I leave it to the opinion of others to decide on the suitability(or otherwise)of my screen-handle.


The posts are important to read if you want to know what is the up to date Arab propaganda. They tell a lot.


Wikipedia

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattityahu_Peled

One daughter, Nurit Peled-Elhanan, is a professor of language and education at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem. She lost her 14-year-old daughter Smadar Elhanan in the 1997 Ben Yehuda Street suicide bombing, in the center of Jerusalem. His son, Miko Peled, is also a peace activist and lives in San Diego.


Six-Day War

During the severe political crisis of May 1967, in the lead-up to the Six-Day War, Peled—then at the rank of Aluf (Major General) and in charge of the IDF Supply Division—was considered a hawk. At the time when the government of PM Levi Eshkol seemed to be hesitating whether or not to launch a pre-emptive attack on the Egyptian armies concentrating in the Sinai, Peled was among a group of generals who demanded that the government start a war, and threatened to resign if it did not.

Others involved in this Generals' Protest (which only became known to the general public many years later[citation needed]) were then Major General Ariel Sharon and Major General Israel Tal. Sharon later became Defence Minister and Prime Minister and held positions then diametrically opposite Peled's. Tal, who later also became a dove, but a less radical one, never entered active politics.

Some historians credit the Generals' Protest with a decisive role in Israel's making the decision to launch the Six-Day War—a crucial turning point in the history of the country and of the entire Middle East to the present day. Others, however, assert that the Eshkol Government had already decided to go to war and that its apparent hesitation was mainly aimed at gaining international (and specifically, American) support.

When later asked about this incident—as he was on numerous occasions during his later career on the Left—Peled expressed no regret. He stated that having been in charge of the Supply Division, he was aware that prolonged mobilization, with the IDF reserves comprising a significant percentage of Israel's overall workforce, would severely cripple the country's economy, which was already suffering from a severe, years-long recession. Therefore, Peled asserted, he was duty-bound to tell the government that the country could not afford a long mobilization and that it had to strike "a sharp decisive blow," after which the reserves could be discharged—which is what Israel proceeded to do in the June 1967 Six-Day War.

Peled reiterated, however, that he had conceived of this as a purely military operation to counter a military threat, and that he had no idea that Israel would maintain occupation of the territories captured for decades afterwards, or establish settlements designed to effect their annexation and permanently change their demographic character. He had opposed these tendencies as soon as they appeared after the war.

Peled retired from military life in 1969. In that period he visited Vietnam as an official guest of the U.S. Army and was cordially received by American generals. At the time he still supported the U.S. involvement in the Vietnam War, a position that was to change in subsequent years.
Last edited by noir on 13 Dec 2017 04:56, edited 1 time in total.
#14870511
Miko Peled is an excellent activist. His sister, whose daughter was killed, is also excellent, she analysed Israeli school-books and called them out for the propaganda they were, for their demonization of Palestinians.

In Jerusalem we have the latest chapter in a century of colonialism
One hundred years ago, on 11 December 1917, the British army occupied Jerusalem. As General Allenby’s troops marched through Bab al-Khalil, launching a century of settler colonialism across Palestine, prime minister David Lloyd George heralded the city’s capture as “a Christmas present for the British people”.

In a few months’ time, we mark another such anniversary: 70 years since the Palestinian Nakba of 1948, the catastrophic destruction of the Palestinian polity; the violent dispossession of most of its people with their forced conversion into disenfranchised refugees; the colonial occupation, annexation and control of their land; and the imposition of martial law over those who managed to remain.

The current US president’s recognition of Jerusalem as the capital of Israel bookends a century of such events: from the Balfour declaration in November 1917 to the partition plan of 1947; from the Nakba of 1948 to the Naksa of 1967 – with its annexation of Jerusalem, the occupation of the rest of Palestine, further mass expulsions of Palestinians including from East and West Jerusalem, and the invaders’ razing of entire ancient neighbourhoods in the city.

Donald Trump’s declaration could easily be read as one more outrage in his growing collection of chaotic and destructive policies, this one perhaps designed to distract from his more prosaic, personal problems with the law. It is viewed as the act of a volatile superpower haplessly endorsing illegal military conquest and consolidating the “acquisition of territory by force” (a practice prohibited and rejected by the UN and the basic tenets of international law). And it is seen alongside a long list of domestic and international blunders.

However, this analysis obscures what happens each day in occupied Palestine, and hides what will surely happen next – unless governments, parliaments, institutions, unions and, most of all, citizens take measures to actively resist it.

Leaders across the world appear incapable of naming what is taking place in Palestine, so their received wisdom on the cause and nature of the conflict, along with the “consensus solutions” they offer, prove futile. This century of events instead should be understood as a continuum, forming part of an active process that hasn’t yet stopped or achieved its ends. Palestinians understand it: we feel it in a thousand ways every day. How does this structure appear to those who endure it day in, day out?

Patrick Wolfe, the late scholar, traced the history of settler colonial projects across continents, showing us that events in Palestine over the last 100 years are an intensification of (rather than a departure from) settler colonialism. He also established its two-sided nature, defining the phenomenon – from the Incas and Mayans to the native peoples of Africa, America, and the Middle East – as holding negative and positive dimensions. Negatively, settler colonialism strives for the dissolution of native societies; positively, it erects a new colonial society on the expropriated land: “Colonisers come to stay: invasion is a structure not an event.”

After the British marched into Jerusalem in 1917 and declared martial law, they turned Palestine into an Occupied Enemy Territory Administration (OETA). Declaring martial law over the city, Allenby promised: “Every sacred building, monument, holy spot, shrine, traditional site, endowment, pious bequest, or customary place of prayer of whatsoever form of the three religions will be maintained and protected.” But what did he say of its people? Allenby divided the country into four districts: Jerusalem, Jaffa, Majdal and Beersheba, each under a military governor, and the accelerated process of settler colonialism began.

At the time of the military takeover, Palestine was 90% Christian and Muslim, with 7-10% Palestinian Arab Jews and recent European settlers. By the time the British army left Palestine on 14 May 1948, the expulsion and ethnic cleansing of the Palestinian people was already under way. During their 30 years’ rule, the British army and police engineered a radical change to the population through the mass introduction of European settlers, against the express wishes of the indigenous population. They also suppressed Palestine’s Great Revolt of 1936-39, destroying any possibility of resistance to what lay ahead.

Once any individual episode is understood as part of a continuing structure of settler colonialism, the hitherto invisible daily evictions of Palestinians from their homes assume their devastating significance.

Invisible too has been the force driving the expansion of illegal settlements on Palestinian land. Without a framing of settler colonialism, the notion of the founder of Zionism, Theodor Herzl, of “spiriting away” the native Arabs “gradually and circumspectly”, makes little sense. In Jerusalem this is how gradual ethnic cleansing is being practised today.

The new US policy on Jerusalem is not about occupation and annexation; the supremacy of one religion over another so “balance” must be restored; the two-state solution or the failures of the Oslo agreement; or the location of an embassy, or division of Jerusalem.

Nor is it even about the soap opera-level conspiracy the Palestinian people have been abandoned to: where the son-in-law of the US president, who has actively funded the rightwing settlement movement in Israel, has been granted absolute power to fabricate a “peace process” with a crown prince who has just locked up his relatives.

In this dystopic vision, the village of Abu Dis outside Jerusalem is proposed as the capital of a future fragmented Palestinian “state” – one never created, given that (along with all US-led peace processes), its eventual appearance is entirely dependent on Israel’s permission. This is named, in “peace process” language, as any solution to be agreed “by the parties themselves”, via “a negotiated settlement by the two sides”.

With colonialism always comes anti-colonial resistance. Against the active project to disappear the indigenous people, take their land, dispossess and disperse them so they cannot reunite to resist, the goals of the Palestinian people are those of all colonised peoples throughout history. Very simply, they are to unify for the struggle to liberate their land and return to it, and to restore their inalienable human rights taken by force – principles enshrined in centuries of international treaties, charters, and resolutions, and in natural justice.

The US has been blocking Palestinian attempts to achieve this national unity for years, vetoing Palestinian parties in taking their legitimate role in sharing representation. Palestinians’ democratic right to determine their path ahead would allow our young generation – scattered far and wide, from refugee camps to the prisons inside Palestine – to take up their place in the national struggle for freedom. The US assists the coloniser and ties our hands.

Former European colonial powers, including Britain, now claim they are aware of their colonial legacy, and condemn centuries of enslavement and the savage exploitation of Africa and Asia. So European leaders should first name the relentless process they installed in our country, and stand with us so that we can unite to defeat it.
#14870570
What 2 State solution? The Arab League never wanted a 2 State solution, they never accepted the deal and never will because they want the Jews not only gone but gone in coffins. Muslims didn't accept the deal, those Palestinians are taking advantage of this nonsense narrative of western MSM media that pretends that deal was ever accepted by the Muslims

So what Jews are buying lands and buildings? What you call settlements or invasion I call business transaction.
Last time I checked when someone wants to sell and someone buys is called a sale not a settlement.

skinster wrote:The two-state solution was dead before it started. It has always been bullshit because Israel has always been about taking as much land as possible and never any interest about peace with the natives.

You are a typical ignorant American who doesn't have a clue about the so-called conflict. You're probably an extremist evangelical type who supports all this because you believe in dumb shit like Jesus's second coming and Armageddon having to take place in a state called Israel. I don't even know why Jewish zionists support Evangelical Christians on this shit since according to that whole mythology, millions of Jews will be killed, but smart-zionists is an oxymoron, so....

Israel has never been "nice" to the natives:





Wrong! 63% of Americans oppose this move.

But...

Make no mistake. The overwhelming majority of the world simply to not like "Americans" very much. We have had just about enough terrorism, chest pounding threats, regime changes, torture and We Love Freedom crap. America is a shit hole where cops go around killing people with impunity, where people have to beg online to be treated for healthcare, where the GOP tax bill is a massive fuck you to the poor, where your roads and general infrastructure is crumbling etc.etc.etc. Trump's move has been condemned by pretty much everyone who isn't a zionist-extremist or evagelical-psychopath.

As for ISIL, that's an American creation who the US and Israel have armed, trained, provided air-cover for (in Syria) etc. If it was genuinely for the people of the middle east, it would aim fire at Israel. But that happened once and ISIL subsequently apologized for it, for hurting their own. I posted that in a thread earlier but here it is again. :D



It's clear Americans like you have no understanding of the history of the region, you've taken what you've learned from the topic probably from your extremist church or from your mainstream media which brainwashes eejits with zionist propaganda.

As for the "Israel was attacked by its neighbors" mythology, Miko Peled has proven how this is bullshit from the Israeli generals meetings that were taken place at that time (his father was a general). Stop repeating bullshit that's already been exposed as bullshit.



Spare me this bullshit too. If you cared about the oppression of women, what about Palestinian women? If you want to bitch about cultures, try taking a look at your own, the one causing the most destruction all over the world. The arrogance of people like you is just, laughable.



Actually Americans protested in cities all over the country because of this, I posted pictures of that.

And if you think Israel is a democracy, lol once more at you for being so clueless.

Here are pics again from American protests:













#14870596
As long they are not treated as pro Nazis Americans in the 30's there is no much to do against them




Pro Nazi German Americans rallies.

New York City, February 20, 1939



Later, the Nazi "German American Bund" were the first pro Arab supporters in America. Among these organizations were the socalled League for Peace with Justice in Palestine, the Institute for Arab-American Affairs, the Arab Office, the Committee for Justice and Peace in the Holy Land, and a variety of affiliated groups.

Source

United States. Congress - 1948 - ‎

The Congressional Record is the official record of the proceedings and debates of the United States Congress

KLEIN. of NEW YORK IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Saturday, June 19, 1948 Mr. KLEIN. Mr. Speaker, I have referred before to the inexcusable propaganda and political activities of a number of Arab front organizations and agitators, whose purpose it is to prevent the successful execution of Our Country's policies in the Middle East. Among these organizations are the socalled League for Peace with Justice in Palestine, the Institute for Arab-American Affairs, the Arab Office, the Committee for Justice and Peace in the Holy Land, and a variety of affiliated groups. The activities of Several of these organizations have recently been subjected to searching scrutiny, during 23 days of sworn testimony in a New York magistrate's court. This action started as a result of the unparalleled audacity of the pro-Arab group in filing a criminal-libel complaint against Rev. Dr. Henry A. Atkinson, chairman of the Nonsectarian Anti-Nazi League—which had distributed to delegates to the United Nations Assembly and to the press, a carefully documented brochure entitled “Pan-Arab Propaganda: Its Pro- Fascist and Pro-Nazi Aspects in America.” This brochure was a detailed, documentary memorandum showing how key figures in the present pro-Arab agitation had once been intimately associated with Hitler's German-American Bund, and how others—backed up by unlimited funds—are engaged in deliberately and systematically stirring up anti-Jewish hatreds and other forms of bigotry, here in America, as a device toward achieving their selfish ends. Believing—like others before them— that manifold millions of dollars might be able to hide or suppress the truth, . some of these pro-Arab agents caused their attorney, Hallam M. Richardson, to go into court to prevent the continued distribution of the Nonsectarian AntiNazi League's publications. As a result of a hearing marked by a striking wealth of detail, and the most sensational admissions wrung from the pro-Arabs themselves, Judge H. Bushei, in New York magistrate's court, handed down an opinion on May 26 which (1) excoriates the pro-Arab attorney, both for his evil associates and for his attempt to exploit the court's processes for propaganda purposes; (2) upholds. all. of. the. sensational. findings. of. the. Nonsectarian Anti-Nazi League, as accurate and even “ conservative and restrained,” and (3) holds for further investigation the financial records of the pan-Arab propagandists. Here are some of the things which counsel for the Nonsectarian Anti-Nazi League brought out during these hearings: The head of an allegedly “American” organization engaged in pro-Arab propaganda, Benjamin Freedman, was disclosed as sending cables wishing “vision, courage and strength” to that arch war criminal, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, who was Hitler's right-hand ally in Middle Eastern affairs throughout the war. Thus the misnamed League for Peace with Justice in Palestine was publicly branded as an American agency of the Mufti and his Arab higher committee. ' "' * An 'unnaturalized Englishman, a former. official of the British foreign office, now living and doing profitable business in our midst, as head of a multi-million-dollar corporation, was disclosed as one of “the three .. . men who were-the real founders of-this pane . Arab propaganda machine. This man is named Capt. Charles Percy Passman. Cables and letters from Freedman, relative to huge shipments of war supplies, and the projected construction of a Thompson submachine gun factory to aid the Moslems in Pakistan, with the clear purpose of preventing any American embargo from being effective, were presented in court by officials of the Western Union Co. and other Cable agencies. * * * The most conspicuous Arab publicist in the United States, H. I. Katibah, was revealed as the author of the lead  article on a pro-Hitler propaganda monthly published in Boston, Mass., in 1933. * * * The lawyer, Hallam M. Richardson, who has represented these powerful Arab interests in approximately a score of cases, was revealed as a former associate of the unspeakably vile Christian Front agitator, Joseph McWilliams, who was indicted for sedition during the war and whose un-American activities earned him the lavish praise of Hitler's agents. (Among Richardson's clients have been McWilliams, Freedman, Katibah, the League for Peace With Justice in Palestine, and Ahmad Hussein, head of the ultranationalist Young Egypt Party.) The pan-Arab propagandists are afraid to submit their financial accounts to public scrutiny in court, probably for the reason that they fear self-incrimination under the the Federal Foreign Agents Registration Act. * * *
Last edited by noir on 13 Dec 2017 08:27, edited 1 time in total.
#14870628
UK

Red Green (color of Islam) alliance

On Friday the Guardian columnist and Corbyn-supporter Owen Jones sent out this Tweet to his followers:



As a video of the resulting demonstration shows, the crowd outside the embassy loudly chanted (among other things) ‘Khaybar Khaybar, ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad, sa yahud’. This is a famous Islamic battle-cry which might be translated, ‘Jews, remember Khaybar, the army of Muhammad is returning.’ The battle of Khaybar relates to a 7th century attack on a Jewish community by the armies of Mohammed.



The British author and journalist, Douglas Murray asks:

Now two obvious questions arise. Why might this battle cry have been used on Friday night outside the American embassy in London? And are racist chants of this kind now acceptable on the British left?

Last edited by noir on 13 Dec 2017 11:02, edited 1 time in total.
#14870632
Ter wrote: the independence war, where they fought and beat seven Arab armies


The Arab Legion fought well in '48, mauling the Israelis at Latrun and Jerusalem.

your Arab friends are born losers, yesterday, today and tomorrow.


The Arab Legion in '48, the initial Arab gains in '73, and the performance of Hez in '06 indicate arabs, given adequate motivation and preparation, can be winners. They're in poor shape now but the potential is still there--population, oil revenues, renewed Russian help, even nonarab states like Iran joining in a future fight, which never happened in the fullscale wars of the past.
Last edited by starman2003 on 13 Dec 2017 15:20, edited 1 time in total.
#14870654
Ter wrote:What a shame that Yasser Youre-a-fart refused to sign the peace agreement.
Look where the Arabs are now.
They wanted everything and got nothing.
The Mohammedans will never agree to a Jewish State, in whatever size or shape.


Ter, you are quite the baby with some of the language you use. :D

And you're just posting Israeli propaganda again.

Arafat had nothing worth signing to, he refused to give as much of Palestine as the greedy zionists demanded in the deal. I believe he was happy to settle with about 20% of Palestine, rather than the 45% that was offered in the Balfour Agreement, but the zionists wouldn't allow it and Arafat refused to sell his people out. I'll have to double-check on that figure, but it's mentioned here in this talk:


You should watch it. You might learn something, it's very clear you need to since you keep posting dumb shit that's been proven wrong decades ago.
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