Nigel Farage calls for fresh Brexit referendum to 'kill off' issue - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14878600
The Guardian wrote:Nigel Farage has proposed a second referendum on leaving the EU to settle the issue for a generation, as he believes the result would be the same again.

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The former Ukip leader suggested another poll would ultimately kill off the campaign for Brexit to be reversed, which is championed by remainers such as Tony Blair, Andrew Adonis and Nick Clegg.

Speaking on Channel 5’s The Wright Stuff, he said: “My mind is actually changing on all this. What is for certain is that the Cleggs, the Blairs, the Adonises will never, ever, ever give up. They will go on whinging and whining and moaning all the way through this process.

“So maybe, just maybe, I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership. I think that if we had a second referendum on EU membership we would kill it off for a generation.

“The percentage that would vote to leave next time would be very much bigger than it was last time round. And we may just finish the whole thing off. And Blair can disappear off into total obscurity.”

Farage immediately won support from his ally Arron Banks, the prominent Brexit supporter who helped bankroll one of the leave campaigns.

“If we do not act radically now, we will sleepwalk into a faux Brexit, in name only,” he said. “True Brexiteers have been backed into a corner and the only option now is to go back to the polls and let the people shout from the rooftops their support of a true Brexit. Leave would win by a landslide.”

However, it did not win support from Conservative Brexit supporters, who suggested he was simply seeking attention at a time when Ukip has lost its purpose and slumped in the polls.

Andrew Bridgen, a Conservative MP, told the Guardian: “The moment the public voted to leave the EU, and a Conservative government are enacting that, then unfortunately for Ukip, they are superfluous. I think that’s what it’s about.

“I do agree with Mr Farage that if we had another referendum it would result in an overwhelming vote to leave. But there is no need to do it.”

Steve Baker, a Brexit minister, said the former Ukip leader’s comments were “further confirmation of my long-held view that Nigel Farage is one of the greatest impediments to a successful Brexit”.

Henry Bolton, the new leader of Ukip, and a number of senior party officials also rejected Farage’s call for another poll.

“I am convinced that the leave side would win a second referendum, should one be held, with an even larger majority than before,” he said.

In contrast, Farage’s proposal was also met with approval by anti-Brexit campaigners, who hold out hope that public opinion is turning away from leaving the EU as a result of its economic risks.

Clegg, the former deputy prime minister and Lib Dem leader, simply tweeted: “I agree with Nigel.” Adonis added: “Farage wants a referendum on Mrs May’s Brexit deal. I agree. Bring it on!”

Mark Malloch Brown, a peer who chairs the Best for Britain campaign, said another referendum was “something that the country needs”.

“Every day we see the disaster of Brexit as we see its impact on our economy, jobs, communities and our society,” he said. “With these comments Nigel Farage is disowning the chaos that trying to leave the EU has wrought on this country. Him and his Brexiteer allies have zero idea of what would come next.”

Tom Brake, a Lib Dem MP and his party’s spokesman on Brexit, said support was now growing on both sides of the argument for a vote on the final deal, although the Lib Dems were the only major party that advocated another poll in their election manifesto.

The Guardian
#14878613
Aaron Banks, joins Nigel Farage:

Mirror wrote:Millionaire Brexit backer Aaron Banks says second referendum is only option now.

Aaron Banks, who bankrolled campaign to Leave, said there should be a second vote to confirm support for a clean break with the EU.

Arron Banks, the co-founder of influential pro-Brexit campaign group Leave.EU, said: "If we do not act radically now, we will sleepwalk into a faux Brexit, in name only.

"True Brexiteers have been backed into a corner and the only option now is to go back to the polls and let the people shout from the rooftops their support of a true Brexit," Banks said in a statement.

"Leave would win by a landslide."

Nigel Farage provoked surprise when he said he has changed his mind on holding a second Brexit referendum today.

Speaking on Channel 5's The Wright Stuff this morning, the former UKIP leader said he wanted to put any doubt over the issue to bed and 'kill the issue for a generation'.

"Just maybe I’m reaching the point of thinking that we should have a second referendum on EU membership

"I think if we had a second referendum on EU membership we’d kill it off for a generation.

"The percentage that would vote to leave next time would be very much bigger than it was last time round."

Farage's call was welcomed by anti-Brexit campaigners, including Lord Malloch Brown, who chairs Best for Britain, who said: "A second referendum: my message is clear-bring it on."

While Lord Adonis tweeted: "So Nigel Farage wants a referendum on Mrs May’s Brexit deal. I agree. Bring it on!"

While the Lib Dems' Tom Brake said he agreed with both Nigel Farage and Tony Blair who have now both called for an additional referendum.

Liberal Democrat Brexit Spokesperson Tom Brake said: “Support is now growing on both sides of the argument for a vote on the final deal with the choice of an exit from Brexit.

“In any future referendum, Liberal Democrats will be leading the charge against Nigel Farage to keep Britain in the EU.

“But Farage shouldn’t be so confident of winning, people are now far more aware of the costs of Brexit and the fabrications of the Leave campaign.

“Instead of the promised £350m for the NHS, living standards are in freefall and the health service is in crisis.

“What will the Leave campaign bus have written on it next time: let’s not fund our NHS, but pay a £39bn Brexit divorce bill instead?”

Prominent Labour Remain MP Chuka Umunna said Farage had a "valid point" but did not say he supported the idea of a second referendum.

The MP, who is a member of Open Britain, said: “For perhaps the first time in his life, Nigel Farage is making a valid point. In a democracy like ours, the British people have every right to keep an open mind about Brexit.

“If the Brexit that is delivered does not match up to the promises of Leave campaigners - with no sign of £350 million extra per week for the NHS but a whopping great divorce bill of £39 billion - then everyone is entitled to ask if this is the right choice for our country.”

But the Prime Minister's official spokesman rejected Nigel Farage's suggestion saying: "We will not be having a second referendum.
#14878645
The question is straight forward , the facts are obvious.

Excuse me if I did not provide enough links, for you to be able to understand the question.

I do sometimes assume that people have more information and knowledge about what is going on in the world, than you apparently do.
#14878649
So you don't have a sense of humor. Gotcha.

Actually you do have to provide a link since this isn't really a world event rather a local event and you, as the person who is setting the question, need to provide a context for it and necessary information that you think are relevant to the topic that you, again as the opening post, want to start.

This is how forums in general tend to work. Even if I or anyone else who is outside of the UK did hear the news, it is irrelevant to the fact that you must still provide these information. Because this is not a local British forum but an international one, and not everyone will be up to date on what happens in each and every country's local news around the world.


Now for your "straight forward question", its not straight forward. Is he a traitor to his followers ? Who knows, on what issue did he betray them ? Brexit is not one issue, its a whole set of legal and social cases. Did you mean he went back on all his former opinions, or just one in particular ? Maybe he's arguing for a different method and course of action ? Who knows really, you'd have to provide the relevant information and context for people to determine the answer through the following discussion.
#14878651
I saw the short clip on TV,to be honest,I thought that FARAGE has lost his marbles,perhaps worse, MADLY INSANE.LOL.
I think that what happened was, FARAGE had one of those cathartic moments(between his drinking bouts),when he realised that the 'Brussels gravy train' will hit the buffers in a years time & he will no longer have a platform in which to spout his one-issue nonsense.

He said to the effect in the interview that, a second referendum would settle the matter for a generation.

Just how stupid is the idiot, when just one referendum settled the matter by the people, fulminating in our exit from the EU in March 2019.
'BREXIT' is NOT exiting the EU per se, it's about pulling the wool over the eyes of the people on the betrayal by the Westminster elite,headed by Theresa MAY, to pay to stay, with one foot in the door of the EU post MARCH 2019.

At the next general election ,the Tories will be crushed out of existence by their arch-nemesis, Jeremy CORBYN,a direct consequence of that betrayal as evidenced by the payment of £40+BILLIONS & the continuation of the Customs Tariffs.
#14878658
That's the end of Brexit then! Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

There is no way the Leave campaign could send another red bus with the "350 million/week for the NHS" lie through the country. Nor would they be able to repeat any of the other lies. Surely, even Leave voters can't be so thick as to fall for those lies again!?

Farage, Bojo, et al. counted on a Remain victory the first time round. It was a real shock to them when they realized they had won. And since Farage got a taste what it's like to work for Murdoch, he is yearning to keep his cozy job at the EP. To imagine the EU could be stuck with this scumbag for years to come is the most depressing thought. I was so looking forward to getting rid of him. I was actually counting the days until liberation at 11pm on 29th March 2019. I hope they don't manage to hold the referendum before that and have to reapply to join the EU like every other member.

What I don't understand is why they don't have a lynch mob at their heels for what they have done to their country. The Brits are just too complacent.
#14878660
This is actually a good news for the UK. A second referendum will hold a renewed hope for the UK to retain its position inside the EU, avoiding the ramifications of Brexit. Though indeed much of the damage is already done and the Brits already fucked up their relations with the rest of Europe.
Nevertheless; Brexit, if went ahead, could potentially break apart the UK as whole. So the cost of Brexit remains higher than a renewed remain commitment.
#14878694
Atlantis wrote:That's the end of Brexit then! Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.

"There is no way the Leave campaign could send another red bus with the "350 million/week for the NHS" lie through the country".



Actually, if anyone that understands simple English would explain to the others who mis-interpreted the 'Leave' bus advertising, 'Leave' NEVER said, they 'will' spend £350 Million a week on the NHS.

What the bus advert says is, "We send £350 Million a week to the EU"........"Lets spend it on the NHS instead".

Commonsense tells you that 'LEAVE' are not the government, therefore they cannot say that the money quoted could,or would be spent on the NHS.

It's simply 'IMPLYING' that the money could be spent on the NHS instead of being sent to the EU, providing there is a 'Leave' win & that the decision to 'Leave would pressure the government to do just that.

Are people really so stupid that they cannot separate reality from political rhetoric?

Consider that Theresa MAY has placed £40+ BILLION at the ready,to complete a 'transitional' deal, designed to continue the status quo until the next general election, when the TREACHERY of that spending decision will finally be exposed for what it really is.
It's just been estimated that the UK will 'lose' some £51 BILLION as a result of crashing out of the EU, WELL! NO IT WILL NOT, because we will not then have to then give them that £41+ BILLION.

The EU have already stated that they will not compromise on the, "Four Freedoms", the 'Free Movement of people being perhaps the most important to the EU politically,but which will destroy the Tory Party if they betray the 'LEAVE' electorate.
#14878800
I went out my way to watch the interview. I think it was actually a throw away comment from Farage actually. He didn't understand what he said until he said it. But he is right. A vote to 'leave' now would kill off the issue for a generation. But I think the result would be a landslide. A landslide for 'remain' that is. The 'leavers' lies are becoming apparent and the tide is turning.

I also think with such a high profile endorser of another referendum is key to getting another referendum too. Before this I was crossing my fingers for one. But now May has no excuse to not provide one. She (claims) to be a remainer. Well prove it. Let's kill off this issue once and for all. Take that walk in the Welsh mountains to gain your apiphany if you need to May. The negotiations were going nowhere so it was going to be hard-Brexit anyways. People should at least understand what they are voting for now. And with Farages endorsement (and I'm sure she could get Boris's endorsement as well), it wouldn't be seen as undemocratic by providing one either.

May was always in a lose-lose position trying to keep everyone happy during negotiations. Will she solve her problem by taking Farages offer? I hope so, but with the political elite in Westminister, they do seem focused on sailing Britannia into the iceberg! So I won't be holding my breath.
#14878805
@AFAIK, it won't matter how many referendums are held in the next twenty years, the result will be the same each time. Remain victory.

Three things Brexit has done for the UK that perhaps will make all this hassle in the end worth while. Provided a greater support for the EU, Shown the importance of the EU and shown the economic benefits of the EU.

I doubt people would vote for a shit-fest a second time round...
#14878862
Atlantis wrote:What I don't understand is why they don't have a lynch mob at their heels for what they have done to their country.

Maybe because it's just an "experiment" right now and they haven't had to pay for it so much so far. If Brexit doesn't happen they remain grinches that have caused little harm and can get away with it.

Also, if Mossad or the Israeli government is involved in any way in Brexit, I'd bet they want the UK to leave the EU rather than stay. It's the same with the Russians as well.
#14878865
What's there to understand? Farage knows that Theresa May's government is extremely weak and thus is very vulnerable to revolts from the Remain wing of the Tory Party (as was demonstrated in December, when they voted to amend a government Brexit bill). Since the Tories will never call an election to try and strengthen their position (they won't repeat the fiasco of last year and risk losing), the only sure fire way to silence the Tory Remainers, force Labour to stop prevaricating, and push through exit from the customs union is another Brexit referendum win. Of course, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of why Britain will remain in the customs union: this has little to do with the Tory Remainers, who are basically just trying to put the brakes on a giddy ride to the no-deal exit that Davis and Johnson think is feasible. It actually has everything to do with the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, since the Democratic Unionists will veto any deal which establishes a customs border with the rest of the UK and the Irish government will veto any formation of a hard border between themselves and the North. The only way out is some kind of UK membership of the customs union.

But, again, the result of a second referendum would be too close to call. And, as the following article from the New Statesman points out, calling it will prove to be impossible from a practical point of view in any case, so all the Brexiteers can sleep safely in their snug, immigrant-free beds:


Nigel Farage’s suggestion for a second referendum would struggle to pass Parliament


Brexit continues to have a number of powerful guarantors on both the left and the right.


Best of three? Nigel Farage has suggested that "maybe, just maybe" a second referendum on the terms of the United Kingdom's exit deal is the best way to settle the issue. Adding to the drama, it comes as a ComRes poll for the Mirror shows Remain overcoming Leave outside the margin of error for the first time.

It has sparked furious debate over whether the poll is any good, about how the referendum would play out and what it would mean for our chances of getting The Best Deal (™). Which is all very diverting, but of course, the thing about Farage is that he's not an MP. (Not for lack of trying.)

Any conversation about a second referendum has to start with a meaningful analysis of how you get 325 MPs to vote for it and how you get that vote in the first place. Brexit continues to have a number of powerful guarantors: Eurosceptics on the Conservative backbenches, Eurosceptics in the Labour leadership, pro-Remain Labour MPs in Leave-heavy seats who don't want to go the way of all flesh, to name just a few. Not only do you have to overcome all of that, but you have to overcome it all multiple times in a new referendum bill.

You can see how, if the next election results in a Labour government with no parliamentary majority, which feels like the most likely outcome at the moment, a referendum on re-entry might be the cost of doing business with the Liberal Democrats, the SNP or the Greens.

But as another election founders on the same rock as a soft Brexit - the unwillingness of pro-European Conservative MPs to damage their own government - that looks like a path to reversing rather than stopping Brexit


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/s ... parliament

And also: why the howling that Farage is betraying you? He already betrayed you the day after the referendum, when he handed the Brexit shit pile to the Tories and ran away to America to lick Trump's moon-like arse. When he did that, he knowingly condemned his political party to oblivion (since he built it up almost entirely around his cult of personality).
#14878875
B0ycey wrote:I went out my way to watch the interview. I think it was actually a throw away comment from Farage actually. He didn't understand what he said until he said it.

Even if it was only a Freudian slip of the tongue, it does reveal what deep down he knows to be the truth: Brexit is a total cluster-fuck and there is no way of improving on it without a U-turn.

Anyways, Aaron Banks who bankrolled the Leave campaign expressly endorsed his statement, which goes to show that the dilemma has reached the conscious level even in the Leave camp.

Take that walk in the Welsh mountains to gain your apiphany if you need to May.

Maybe the Lord Adonis can show her the place in the Austrian Alps where he made his decision in the clear air of the high peaks.

May was always in a lose-lose position trying to keep everyone happy during negotiations.

Paradoxically, balancing the Remainers with the Leavers in her cabinet/party, she is in a strong position, as long as she doesn't lose balance, because there is nobody to replace her. And the Tories are as scarred of a Corbyn government as the devil is of the cross.

Kirillov wrote:Since the Tories will never call an election to try and strengthen their position (they won't repeat the fiasco of last year and risk losing), the only sure fire way to silence the Tory Remainers, force Labour to stop prevaricating, and push through exit from the customs union is another Brexit referendum win.

You know the saying - "twice burned third time shy?" The Tories gambled with the referendum and the snap election and lost, they are not going to take a third gamble with a referendum they are likely to lose.

Of course, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of why Britain will remain in the customs union: this has little to do with the Tory Remainers, who are basically just trying to put the brakes on a giddy ride to the no-deal exit that Davis and Johnson think is feasible. It actually has everything to do with the border between Northern Ireland and the Republic, since the Democratic Unionists will veto any deal which establishes a customs border with the rest of the UK and the Irish government will veto any formation of a hard border between themselves and the North. The only way out is some kind of UK membership of the customs union.


True, the Irish border issue has been papered over but not resolved. The only solution to this problem is either staying in the EU or Irish reunification. Staying in the Customs Union or a Norwegian style EU passive membership would make havoc of the free marketeering Brexitters who want deregulation and trade deals with the rest of the world.

Beren wrote:Maybe because it's just an "experiment" right now and they haven't had to pay for it so much so far. If Brexit doesn't happen they remain grinches that have caused little harm and can get away with it.

Naah, it's just being British. They are capable of staying stoically calm while the country is being torn down in front of their eyes. I lived in London with month-long miners strikes trying to bring down the government during the cold winter months, blackouts and companies closing for 3 days a week, an IRA bombing campaign regularly paralyzing the public transport and other public spaces. It didn't disturb them unduly. Truly admirable! In most other countries, the army would have been called up to reestablish order.

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