[Hindsite]

Does Fox News propagate left-wing political propaganda? lol

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2018/01 ... -know.html

FOX News have some left-wing commentators too. That is why FOX News is known for being fair and balanced.

[anarchist23]

FOX News have some left-wing commentators too. That is why FOX News is known for being fair and balanced.

Are you serious or just clutching at straws?

[Doug64]

:lol: The Republicans have control of the government, so it's THEY who shut it down. Trying to fob it off on the Democrats is just the usual stupid shit the Republicans do, and no one is buying it, except the moronic Trump base. But they'd believe him if he said he walked on water.

To repeat myself yet again:

Right, that's why 90% of Republican Senators voted for the CR and 90% of Democrats voted against it, enough so that even if 100% of Republicans had voted for it there wouldn't be enough votes to overcome the 60-vote requirement of the ludicrous filibuster rules currently in place -- and all this for a bill that doesn't have a single aspect I'm aware of that Democrats oppose.

[Drlee]

Something ought to be said about the filibuster rule here. There is a very good reason for it and very good reasons why senators on either side of the aisle do not want to see it go. I don't expect our so-called conservatives here to understand it but here goes. Suppose we did not have a filibuster rule. What would have happened so far that the republican politicians would have had to go into the 2018 election owning and running on.

1. The PPACA would have been repealed leaving over 40 million Americans, many republicans, without health care and allowing unlimited raises in premiums and exclusions for preexisting conditions on the books. Would this be a gain for republicans? Not hardly. It would cost many incumbents their seats. And it would allow the dems to be the heroes in 2019 when they enacted universal health care.

2. The republicans would have had to pass 30 billion in spending for a wall with Mexico that amost nobody wants. Or they would have had to destroy trade with one of our largest trading partners trying to get Mexico to pay for it. This trade war would have devastated our auto industry. It would have driven prices for fruit and vegetables up dramatically. It would result in an instant increase in the cost of gasoline. Then there is the trade war with our second largest export market. Where would the stock market be right now if we lost 262 billion in exports mostly from our manufacturing sector. (Though our farmers would also have been hit hard.)

3. They republicans would have had to pass legislation to deport the dreamers. Why? Because it was a promise to their base.

4. They would have had to gut social programs. Why? Because it was a promise to their base.

5. They would have had to privatize social security. Why? To fund the even more dramatic tax cuts they would have had to pass just to get their own tea party idiots to get them across 50 votes.

Avoiding nuclear option is vitally important to the republicans because it allows them to govern all of the people not just the dullards from the sticks who got them their jobs. The last thing McConnell wants to do is own all of Trump's outlandish campaign promises. Maybe a few like the Ayn Rand besotted Speaker of the House might claim to like the idea but I think not.

So be clear. If to be responsive to their voting base the republicans had to pass all that they promised to pass or face primary challenges from Bannon and his followers, and a massive push-back from democrats and independents who vastly outnumber them at the polls, it would be the practical end to the republican party for decades. The filibuster allows them cover enough to do the compromise that keeps enough people happy with them so that they can stay in office.

And, oh by the way. Trump is the best reason of all to keep the filibuster in place. He has shown time and time again that he will not hesitate to attack one of his own party to get his way. The filibuster allows McConnell and Ryan to say no to him and not wreck the party dancing on his string. Right now and with this president the filibuster is the best friend the republican party has.

[Doug64]

And the Democrats have caved, with nothing but a figleaf for their pains after giving the Republicans more propaganda fodder.

Something ought to be said about the filibuster rule here. There is a very good reason for it and very good reasons why senators on either side of the aisle do not want to see it go.

I have no problem with the filibuster in principle, just the opposite. It’s the current rules that turn almost all votes into a 60-vote requirement that I have a problem with.

[anarchist23]

[Crantag]

I am seeing another shutdown on 2/8 as likely, if the temporary spending does get passed.

At the same time, the Democrats are losing out on the DACA matter.

This is going to have real consequences.

I don't know if it is relevant or not, but I personally find the 'dreamer' term cringe worthy, because to me it is hyperbole. I do not ever like hyperbole, for a variety of reasons. For one thing, it obscures the issue. It also opens up a proposal to assault by those with opposing sentimental sympathies.

The effects of draconian immigration policy will be to push people into the shadows.

It seems like Trump would like to deport the 700,000 DACA registrants, using the information which they provided voluntarily to the government as part of the DACA program. Without mincing words (and this is not hyperbole), this is out of the Nazi playbook.

[Drlee]

I have no problem with the filibuster in principle, just the opposite. It’s the current rules that turn almost all votes into a 60-vote requirement that I have a problem with.

You are articulating a distinction without a difference. Reduce the number to a simple majority and the results are what I mentioned. Either there is a filibuster or not. What is your solution? What are the numbers/

[Doug64]

You are articulating a distinction without a difference. Reduce the number to a simple majority and the results are what I mentioned. Either there is a filibuster or not. What is your solution? What are the numbers/

Go with 60% of those present rather than the current 60% of total members. Since that means the party filibustering has to keep enough members on the floor to maintain it, it turns filibusters back into the endurance contests they used to be instead of a simple minority veto.

[skinster]

[Hindsite]

And the Democrats have caved, with nothing but a figleaf for their pains after giving the Republicans more propaganda fodder.

Actually, Chuck Schumer seems to have come to his senses and realized that a continual government shutdown was going to make things worse for the Democrats. He managed to get McConnell to promise to bring up the DACA debate once the government was up and running again. So what could he really do but trust him at this point, since polls were turning against the Democrats for shutting down the government?

[The Immortal Goon]

In reality, of course, this was an ignoble defeat of two-faced Democrats trying to look like they stand for working people but quick to snuggle up to their masters.

Politically, this was probably the best thing that they could have done having gotten into this. People won't remember the specifics since nothing specific happened of consequence. Most Democrats are hoping to keep their activists happy and their masters out of trouble.

When it comes to spinning this later, the commercials will probably put this in a big list of things that make Trump look like a baboon that is actually hurting the country. His forcing of this issue and then reversing his solution leaving Mitch McConnell to quip, “As soon as we figure out what he is for, then I would be convinced that we were not just spinning our wheels" will play well enough—if they can get the message through.

The Republicans did an alright job of immediately trying to paint this as the Democrats obstructing everything, which wasn't difficult to do as technically that is what happened (though, as noted, this was a crises that didn't have to happen at all). So the casual politico will look at this and see some basic truth. But they're going to have to press forward on this as time will make this look increasingly like their inability to do anything (this is provided the Democrats do broadcast in a competent manner , which is a big "if").

The GOP is on record for saying that they love shutdowns and for pulling off multiple shutdowns. This will be (fairly or not) skewed to remember this as something that Republicans do.

This is also a clumsy attempt to get McConnell into a trap where he has to support this or be branded a liar. McConnell has pretty much outfoxed the Democrats reliably, so I wouldn't worry too much if I were him. He will break his word if he feels like it and there will be no consequence.

[Crantag]

So they are funding the government for 3 weeks, scheduling Senate to revisit DACA by Feb 8, and funding CHIP for 6 years.

House still a separate matter.

I don't know where this is going, and edited this to delete something inaccurate.

[Drlee]

I think the democrats did as well as they could. They made Trump look like odd-man-out. They got CHIP for 6 years. They got a promise of a vote on DACA.

They will, of course, cave and give Trump his absurd wall. That will make him a hero to his followers who are just simply not smart enough to know better. But it is good that they are unintelligent people because, from Trump's perspective, that is the only group he can command.

DACA was a done deal anyway. Nobody but a few really angry and stupid people wanted these folks deported anyway. The Dems should have driven this stake in the ground over funding for the PPACA. They are squandering a golden opportunity to make Trump look even sillier.

[Stormsmith]

Why, in the wide world of sports, did the Democrat think they could strike a deal with McConnell? This is the guy who spent two terms making Obama a one term president, who shut down a vote for SCOTUS etc. The least trustworthy man in America

[The Immortal Goon]

That’s baffling.

McConnell is a good liar and crook that won’t give anybody anything. My only thought is that they’re hoping they can make a clearer argument in a few weeks. Then maybe Democrats I’m vulnerable seats can say, “I just like straight talk. I had to vote with the other Democrats here because we had three promises from Republicans, and they kept breaking them. I’m just a simple country lawyer, but that’s not how my mammy raised me...”

They did also get the kid’s program for the better part of a decade. So there’s that.

[Hindsite]

They did also get the kid’s program for the better part of a decade. So there’s that.

No Republican objected to that because they wanted that included too.

[MistyTiger]

McConnell is a lying bastard piece of slime. He can't be trusted. Why anyone believes him is just baffling.

I don't think the Dems should have caved after only a few days. Now they look really weak and the Republicans look like badass negotiators, though slimy at best. We got too many meatheads over there, no common sense and poor critical thinking skills. I would've made the GOP sweat it out and have them inundated for weeks with angry protesters.

[Hindsite]

McConnell is a lying bastard piece of slime. He can't be trusted. Why anyone believes him is just baffling.

Possibly true, but McConnell is the majority leader and Schumer had no choice but to go through him if he really wanted to get his so-called "dreamers" taken care of. A continual government shutdown was like Schumer shooting himself in the foot to spit his face.

Now if Schumer doesn't get what he wants, he can shut down the government again is less that 3 weeks. He is playing it smart now after coming to his senses. It would have been real stupid to do it your way. Sorry, but I just had to point that out.

[Bulaba Khan Jones]

McConnell is a lying bastard piece of slime. He can't be trusted. Why anyone believes him is just baffling.

I don't think the Dems should have caved after only a few days. Now they look really weak and the Republicans look like badass negotiators, though slimy at best. We got too many meatheads over there, no common sense and poor critical thinking skills. I would've made the GOP sweat it out and have them inundated for weeks with angry protesters.

They should not have caved, but as TIG has pointed out, the Dems do not and have never stood for the working class no matter what they say or what people think (including idiots and morons who think they're a "socialist" party). Ultimately and sadly though, no one is really that surprised the Dems did cave. They are a shockingly impotent and weak-willed party. They have been given political ammo served to them on a silver platter by the GOP many, many times even in just the past 5 years, like the time in 2013 when the GOP threw a temper tantrum and shut down the government for a while, but the Dems are so incompetent they fail to capitalize on these things.

It's hard to understate just how appallingly incompetent the Dems are.