[Drlee]

T

hat's not gonna happen any time soon so you might as well focus on the underlying causes.

Nonsense. The people want it. Change could be less than a year away. Today the republican sheriff of Broward County said that he would campaign against any politician who does not vow to go after assault weapons. Most law enforcement officers favor eliminating them. It is doable.

T

he industrial education system itself is a big part of the problem. We force our kids into these mass state institutions that are engineered to churn out mindless conformists, bullying and social alienation is rampant, spiritual and psychological development is completely ignored while psychotropic drugs are dispensed liberally to one and all, and all of this in the wider context of a morally bankrupt consumer culture of crass materialism, smut and violence.

I agree with some of this.

Guns aren't the problem, neoliberal America is the problem.

No. Those are two problems. No guns no shootings. Guns are part of the problem. Especially military weapons in the hands of civilians.

[Crantag]

One thing to note, in Japan among other things, schools typically have a gates, high fences around yards, and locked entrances with a button to a speakerphone with a camera, at a single main entrance.

Having secure schools doesn't mean the end to an open society, it can rather be a simple measure which can be taken.

That's one systemic policy direction which could be implemented.

As far as getting to the root of the problem, this involves gun control.

[B0ycey]

It is the responsibility of the school district to maintain a safe and secure environment for parents who are basically forced to place their children in these public schools.

OMG!!! Are you blaming the school for this attack? There is only so much protection a school can execute from a semi-automatic weapon.

But let's use you logic for a second. It is the responsibility of the U.S. to protect their citizens who are forced to live there. Under that logic, the US government is responsible to protect their civilians. Any death, including school shootings, means that the US government is responsible and the head of state should be accountable. Under you logic Trump is guilty of this crime not Cruz. That is your logic. By all means think Trump is to blame here, but even I, someone who doesn't support Trump thinks it is far fetched to blame anyone else but Cruz for these deaths.

[noir]

But is it noir?

This story is just like the countless other mass shootings that have come out of America. There is no difference in this story to them. The shooter was angry. There are many angry people out there in every nation. What makes America different to every other nation? Well it is simple. Easy access to semi-automatic guns.

Those angry Muslims in Europe that you hate so much do not even have a death record that comes close to the American homicide record. Remember that the next time you praise the 'home of the free'.

America has gaining some undemocratic ugly traits. But it has hope. It will fix itself. Europe has no hope at all. "Those angry Muslims" death record is not what matters here. It's the culture.

[Crantag]

A wise janitor at a fish processing plant Alaska once bequeathed these words to me, "no one likes change but liberals."

As such, even the notion of putting locked gates on public schools scares people (but active shooter drills, totally healthy).

I think what we need first is some grownup discussions on some of these topics.

Ah, who am I kidding, look where we live.

[Stormsmith]

To me, you merely and simply listed 6 items there, which together with every other thing in his life made this man a 'law abiding gun owner', from the time when he owned his first gun to the time when he shot his first victim.

Well, since he's never been convicted of anything, your claim he's a law abiding gun owner is a tautology. That is, until he shot and killed 17 people and wounded others, which is why we're having this discussion.

The thought police are not going to come along to save America from gun violence, I hate to break it to you.

There are two main ways this can be addressed. Rein in guns or rein in shooters. Since we're close to being able to 3D print guns including semiautomatic rifles, reining in guns has limitations, ergo also rein in shooters who might become a murderers.

Profilers have amassed lists of behaviours and traits. The 6 elements on Cruz puts him into a subset of gun owners likely to become mass murderers. Had an agency, esp. one designed to deal with him, seen this sort of list they would have had to investigate. If he had ongoing mental health issues (Cruz stopped attending) he may have been disqualified from having a gun, particularly a semi, (and possibly 3D printing equipment) This isn't radical. This is what would happen in the case of essentially, a non gun owner buying his first gun, a year ago who's mental health is an issue. A year ago today, Trump signed a bill to make it easier for the mentally handicapped to purchase guns. Oddly, in spite of requests from the press to release a copy of the photo(s) of Trump signing this bill, the White House refused to release it.

The above isn't perfect, granted, but it's miles better than nothing and doesn't require much legislation

[Hindsite]

A year ago today, Trump signed a bill to make it easier for the mentally handicapped to purchase guns.

What bill was that? I never heard of such a bill.
Are you sure this was not fake news?

Greed has bred these crimes. And greed is a conservative trait.

Show me the money. No money, so hate has bred these shooting crimes. And hate is a liberal trait.

[Hong Wu]

Unfortunately this doesn't seem like a resolvable debate for the US. Access to weapons is a core part of American conservative identity, subsidizing social atomization is a core part of western liberal identity. Anyone who thinks this is going anywhere any time soon has not taken an honest look at the arguments on both sides.

Could always increase security after expelling someone.

[Potemkin]

For once, I actually sgree with one of your deep thinks, Hong Wu.

[Hong Wu]

For once, I actually sgree with one of your deep thinks, Hong Wu.

About time we upgraded them to deep thunks wouldn't you say?

[Potemkin]

About time we upgraded them to deep thunks wouldn't you say?

Cheerfully granted!

[4cal]

One thing to note, in Japan among other things, schools typically have a gates, high fences around yards, and locked entrances with a button to a speakerphone with a camera, at a single main entrance.

Having secure schools doesn't mean the end to an open society, it can rather be a simple measure which can be taken.

That's one systemic policy direction which could be implemented.

As far as getting to the root of the problem, this involves gun control.

I'm pretty liberal but I cannot, for the life of me, understand the resistance some Liberals have to armed guards on campus. Especially when the response in EVERY CASE is to call in armed personnel to address the active shooter.

[4cal]

A wise janitor at a fish processing plant Alaska once bequeathed these words to me, "no one likes change but liberals."

As such, even the notion of putting locked gates on public schools scares people (but active shooter drills, totally healthy).

I think what we need first is some grownup discussions on some of these topics.

Ah, who am I kidding, look where we live.

Brother, you got that right.

[Decky]

Just Americans being Americans. This like seeing a Frenchman visiting a brothel or a Russian getting drunk at 8 in the morning or a Canadian saying sorry. Yanks seem happy enough with the status quo to avoid actually doing anything about it so I have to conclude a lot of the responses are faux outrage. If they actually did have a problem with it they would act.

[ingliz]

No guns no shootings

You would think so, but...

UK gun ban:

There is no evidence that the ban on handguns after Dunblane has done anything to cut the criminal use of firearms.

It was very rare that there was ever leakage from the licensed gun owners to the criminal fraternity. Most guns used by criminals are either illegally imported or converted weapons. And that remains the case today.

[anarchist23]

What bill was that? I never heard of such a bill.
Are you sure this was not fake news?

No.

President Trump tweeted Thursday that Americans need to be more vigilant about people with mental illness to prevent school shootings — but a year ago this month he revoked an Obama-era rule that would have blocked some mentally ill people from buying guns.

“So many signs that the Florida shooter was mentally disturbed, even expelled from school for bad and erratic behavior. Neighbors and classmates knew he was a big problem. Must always report such instances to authorities, again and again!” the president wrote.

But Trump, at the urging of the National Rifle Association, quashed a policy that would have forced Social Security officials to report records of some mentally ill people getting benefits to the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System, NPR reported at the time.

People who had been deemed mentally incapable of managing their financial affairs — about 75,000 people — would have been covered by the policy.

The president, Republican lawmakers and the NRA argued that the rule violated people’s Second Amendment rights without due process.

https://nypost.com/2018/02/15/trump-rep ... ying-guns/

[Prosthetic Conscience]

A year ago today, Trump signed a bill to make it easier for the mentally handicapped to purchase guns.
What bill was that? I never heard of such a bill.
Are you sure this was not fake news?

I already linked to it in this thread:

Trump Signs Bill Revoking Obama-Era Gun Checks for People With Mental Illnesses

President Donald Trump quietly signed a bill into law Tuesday rolling back an Obama-era regulation that made it harder for people with mental illnesses to purchase a gun.

The rule, which was finalized in December, added people receiving Social Security checks for mental illnesses and people deemed unfit to handle their own financial affairs to the national background check database.

Had the rule fully taken effect, the Obama administration predicted it would have added about 75,000 names to that database.

President Barack Obama recommended the now-nullified regulation in a 2013 memo following the mass shooting at Sandy Hook Elementary School, which left 20 first graders and six others dead. The measure sought to block some people with severe mental health problems from buying guns.

The original rule was hotly contested by gun rights advocates who said it infringed on Americans’ Second Amendment rights. Gun control advocates, however, praised the rule for curbing the availability of firearms to those who may not use them with the right intentions.

Both the House and Senate last week passed the new bill, H.J. Res 40, revoking the Obama-era regulation.

Trump signed the bill into law without a photo op or fanfare. The president welcomed cameras into the oval office Tuesday for the signing of other executive orders and bills. News that the president signed the bill was tucked at the bottom of a White House email alerting press to other legislation signed by the president.

The National Rifle Association “applauded” Trump’s action. Chris Cox, NRA-ILA executive director, said the move “marks a new era for law-abiding gun owners, as we now have a president who respects and supports our arms.”

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/tr ... al-n727221

To be precise, it was passed by the Senate on 15th Feb 2017; Trump signed it on 28th Feb.

[Decky]

The problem with determining who is and is not mentally ill in the US is the fact everyone is by the standards of the developed world. Don't they all believe the world is 6000 years old and flat and 100% of them claim their ancestors were on the mayflower as if it were the largest ship ever built in human history?

[anarchist23]

What is wrong in the usa?
The answer must be..
Americans. lol

[colliric]

If he didn't have a gun, he would have used a Car....


All I'm going to say on this.