[Hindsite]

While the cartridge dimension for .223 and 5.56 are the same the camber dimensions and loading pressure are not. Firing military 5.56 in something chambered for .223 can result is serious overpressure.

I just learned from the Associated Press the ammo was .223 and not .221 that I had heard earlier. They say the AR-15 style rifle was actually a Smith & Wesson M&P 15, which Cruz purchased at Sunrise Tactical Supply after passing an instant background check by the FBI. It looks like the FBI and the local authorities goofed up big time on this one.

[Drlee]

I spent 20 years in the U.S. Army as a Ranger and intel analyst.

Sure you did. You bet.

[ingliz]

While the cartridge dimension for .223 and 5.56 are the same the c[h]amber dimensions and loading pressure are not.

Correct, but that is not disputed.

DrLee's assertion that an AR15 modified to accept a 5.56x45mm cartridge is inherently inaccurate, is.

Firing military 5.56 in something chambered for .223 can result is serious overpressure.

Correct.

[Suntzu]

Sure you did. You bet.

Yep, and a bunch of other stuff, too. I am also not a pilot.

[SpecialOlympian]

Who cares about the details? The fact of the matter is that conservativism is a mental illness and as Dana Loesch said the mentally ill should not be allowed to own weapons. I thought it was brave of her to say she should not own a firearm.

[Drlee]

DrLee's assertion that an AR15 modified to accept a 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge is inherently inaccurate, is.

I didn't mean to say that.

Let's lay this to rest. Here is a great article for anyone who is interested.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/5-56-vs-223/

[Crantag]

http://dailycaller.com/2018/02/21/cnn-crowd-boos-pro-2a-rape-survivor/

CNN studio audience boos when a rape survivor who supports the right to own firearms is brought up.

Now, no one seems to be arguing that gun control will reduce murder and suicide rates. With this in mind, the blind spot on social atomization is vexing. Consider what is basically being argued here; a young woman shouldn't be able to own a pistol because we can no longer assume she won't use it to shoot random people?

Guns with multi-round magazines existed for over 150 years before this kind of thing became an issue.

I first started doing judo when I took a college PE class as a freshman, and I subsequently continued training with the class professor/judo club through the rest of college, and later trained in Japan after moving there (I am a wrestler too, and wrestling to judo is not an overly difficult transition). This particular sensei was an artillery officer in the Marine Corps during the Korean War.

The first day of the college class, he said "this class is not about self-defense. If you are interested in self-defense, the best thing to do is to take a pistol class and to get yourself a .38."

The logic here is fine for me. I am also pro hunting--as well as trapping, being from rural Oregon, where the former in particular is quite common, though the latter also not really uncommon.

This stance has nothing to do with my opposition to large capacity clips, assault rifles, etc. A strongly feel that these should be banned, possessors should be fairly compensated for turning in the items, and as I said again, mandatory minimum prison sentences should be imposed for those that fail to turn in the relevant items, and as I also said, I may even support paying snitches a reward to report on such people, in this narrow application.

[Crantag]

I just learned from the Associated Press the ammo was .223 and not .221 that I had heard earlier. They say the AR-15 style rifle was actually a Smith & Wesson M&P 15, which Cruz purchased at Sunrise Tactical Supply after passing an instant background check by the FBI. It looks like the FBI and the local authorities goofed up big time on this one.

Wrong. It looks like there was nothing in his criminal background to disqualify him from purchasing the guns, under the prevailing standards.

The church shooter in South Texas also passed a background check. In that case, the Airforce was criticized for not properly reporting his criminal information to the FBI.

Try to keep up.

[Suntzu]

The latest is that the deputy sheriff assigned to the school was cowering outside the building during the shooting.

[Zagadka]

People freak out in active fire situations, even trained professionals. Which makes the whole "give teachers guns" suggestion make absolutely no sense.

[Crantag]

People freak out in active fire situations, even trained professionals. Which makes the whole "give teachers guns" suggestion make absolutely no sense.

No kidding. Trying to scapegoat the security officer is ridiculous. All it shows is the distracting nature of the focus on security officers, as well as perhaps the implications for the idea--which strike many common people as absurd--of arming teachers.

A security officer at a school is a good common-sense security measure attainable with resources on hand in many cases, but all of these supposed fixes which ignore stricter gun control are mere misdirection. As such, it's ironic for a rightwinger to bring this up spitefully.

[Suntzu]

People freak out in active fire situations, even trained professionals. Which makes the whole "give teachers guns" suggestion make absolutely no sense.

Itsa whole different ball of wax when you are fighting for your life.

[Drlee]

Not really. That all depends on the training of the person in the fight.

[mikema63]

Normal people: How about we make it harder for children to get a hold of weapons designed to shoot lots of bullets at people and kill them?

Crazy people: REEEEEEEEEEE How dare you attack my freedoms! EVERY TEACHER SHOULD HAVE A GUN TO BALANCE OUT THE OTHER GUNS!!!!

[Suntzu]

Not really. That all depends on the training of the person in the fight.

Most folks don't have to be trained not to run away.

[Victoribus Spolia]

In my opinion, for what it's worth, Hoppe's thinking is ahistorical. He seems essentially to be trying to reconcile individual freedom with ancien regime reactionary conservatism. While it may (or may not) be possible to do this theoretically, such a theoretical, abstract reconciliation would cut across the actual history of the West for the past two centuries or more. And it is history which determines what is actually going to happen, not abstract ideas inside somebody's head

To be fair, Hoppe pretty well proves that historic monarchies, from the monarchal era, were on the whole less intrusive and less burdensome (especially in regards to taxation) than democratic republics. So this whole claim is basically garbage. I also discussed this at length in my British Monarchy thread.

As a matter of historical record, individual liberty (in its bourgeois sense, which is still the dominant sense used in the West) only became possible in a revolutionary environment in which the French monarchy was overthrown (and the British monarchy was kicked out, in the case of the USA). Historically, reactionary monarchism has always been hostile towards individual liberties, even in the restricted bourgeois sense of those liberties. And reactionary monarchism is equally hostility towards equality, regarding both liberty and equality as twin demons of the Revolution. And besides, they are allied concepts, two sides of the same coin.

Well, as a Neo-Reactionary I think this begs the question. I will know more once I have digested Hoppe sufficiently.

After all, doesn't individual liberty as an abstract value presuppose equality as an abstract value, in the sense that you want everyone to be equally free?

I think this is equivocating on the word free and liberty. Hoppe means by liberty what I would mean, which is, nearest to a state of nature wherein a third-party government does not interfere. In a state of nature everyone is equally free inasmuch as everyone is free of government, this by no means can be construed as permitting equality. The fate of women in an anarchic society, if we were honest, can hardly be called "equality," but it is liberty in the sense that she, as with her male counterparts, are neither intruded upon by government in regards to either their civic participation (or lack thereof) or the outcomes of their actions. Liberty is nothing more than the lack of government according to Hoppe. This is freedom par excellence. This is why liberty and equality are contraries. Nature knows no equality, government either gives equal opportunity by rights (classical liberalism) or via fixed outcome (socialism), but neither is natural and therefore neither is a friend of liberty. Indeed, whereever such are said to overlap, we can assume that the liberty in that case is artificial and not true, or natural, liberty.

In the modern West, at the heart of inequality, there is equality; and at the heart of equality, there is inequality. Likewise, the liberties of the modern West presuppose a strong state apparatus to define and protect those liberties, and any state apparatus by definition restricts liberties. At the heart of liberty, there is slavery; and at the heart of slavery, there is liberty. This is the internal contradiction of modernity which Hoppe does not seem to perceive.

This is an interesting word-salad, but ultimately meaningless.

Obviously you have never been a soldier. Which private citizens should have the shoulder fired anti-aircraft missiles absolutely necessary to have the remotest chance against the most lethal air force in the world?

tell that to the Vietcong.

I do not intend to follow you down yet another libertarian rabbit hole; particularly one as screwy as Hoppe's natural world. I am too old to be impractical and feel no need to engage in mental masturbation.

I don't want to talk to a stubborn-ass geriatric about his sentimental oppositions to guns either, so we are agreed.

f it's of any interest, Conor Cruise O'Brien's book about this is pretty interesting. He goes through Citizen Genet's attempt to make the French and American Revolutions a single affair and the problematic nature of American slavery in navigating the concepts of liberty and freedom.

O'Brien, being a dirty unionist, comes down on the side of the institution of the republic being inherently racist. Which I disagree with, but I think it was an interesting meditation on a lot of these ideas.

I will check this out. Thanks.

[Tainari88]

Peurto Rico has a homocide rate over three times the United States. The top three countries in the world for homicide are all in Latin America. Immigration from Latin America is a major factor in pushing up the US murder rates.

Citizens use guns defensively a hundred thousand times a year. That doesn't mean they're always fired to be effective in saving life property, health and stopping rape. Citizens guns stop and prevent a huge amount of crime in the United States. overall the US's liberal gun laws save the lives of law abiding citizenry.

Poverty, unemployment, drug neighborhoods and many other factors contribute to murder rates. Also the reality is that it doesn't matter how many laws are involved. It is about bad values and how many guns are circulating.

You can lie to yourself all you want with fake stats. You are not accurate. Maybe 1 million more you need of relocated Puerto Ricans. Which town did you say you live in? I will make sure to post and tell them to go there by a hundred thousand at least. Force a whole lot of them to live where you reside. Where do you live again?

Don't worry Rich, 300k or more Puerto Ricans will be running into the USA. They will make sure your country gets Latinized faster than it is going now. You deserve it. Lol.

Who consumes all these drugs? The USA. A country who loves to consume illegal street drugs. Drug consuming culture for sure.

[Suntzu]

[Drlee]

tell that to the Vietcong.

Get a history book.

[Suntzu]

Get a history book.

Yep, everyone knows the U.S. won the Vietnam War!