Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un to meet? What's going on? - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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If a summit between Donald Trump and Kim Jong-un really takes place in May, it will count as one of the most remarkable and unexpected pieces of theatre in diplomatic history.

'Shocking, incredible': what the experts say about a Trump meeting with Kim

If that drama leads to a substantive peace agreement it would represent an extraordinary achievement. The Korean war never formally ended and the threat of a new devastating conflict has hung over the peninsula for decades.

It is a prize on an epic scale, but so are the risks. Both leaders view the provisional agreement to meet as a personal triumph born of resolve. The South Korean messengers who conveyed Kim’s invitation took pains to lay credit at Trump’s feet. White House briefers on Thursday night also went out of their way to tie the surprise development tightly to the US president’s leadership qualities.

Having invested so much personal capital in the meetings, there is a significant danger of a backlash from either or both men if they do not get their way under the glare of international attention.

Q&A
Why does the North Korean regime pursue a nuclear programme?

There is a lot of room for misunderstanding. Both leaders say they want the denuclearisation of the Korean peninsula, but historically their governments have interpreted that to mean quite different things. While Washington sees it in terms of North Korean unilateral disarmament, Pyongyang envisions an end to the “hostile policies” of the US and the formal removal of the nuclear deterrent umbrella that has sheltered South Korea from its northern neighbour.

Mutual insults and rattled sabres

There is no guarantee of the summit actually taking place. Kim did not put his invitation down on paper. It was relayed orally by the South Korean national security chief, Chung Eui-yong. Since Kim met Chung and his delegation on Monday in Pyongyang, the North has remained silent on the contents of the offer and could seek to move the goalposts in the run-up to the high-stakes meeting.

Trump could not contain his excitement at Thursday’s developments. He appeared unannounced at the White House briefing room to tip off journalists about Chung’s planned press statement. He told one reporter he hoped to garner the credit for the breakthrough.

He seemed unaware that Pyongyang had been seeking a one-on-one meeting with a US president since the 1990s at least. In securing agreement, Kim can claim an achievement that eluded his father and grandfather – being treated in the eyes of the world as an equal by the most powerful man on earth.

“To be clear – we need to talk to North Korea,” argued Jeffrey Lewis, the director of the East Asia Nonproliferation Program at the Middlebury institute of international studies at Monterey. “But Kim is not inviting Trump so that he can surrender North Korea’s weapons. Kim is inviting Trump to demonstrate that his investment in nuclear and missile capabilities has forced the United States to treat him as an equal.”

Arguably neither Kim nor Trump deserve the principal credit for the sharp turn they have taken from mutual insults and rattled nuclear sabres. That credit is more reasonably attributed to the South Korean president, Moon Jae-in, who found himself in the crossfire since coming to office last year, but has managed to leverage that position, through the hosting of the Winter Olympics, into an opening for dialogue.

Kim ​​can claim a goal that eluded his father and grandfather, treated as an equal by the most powerful man on earth

The timing has also been benign. The election of a pro-engagement president in South Korea has been followed by Kim’s declaration at the start of this year that his regime had attained its goal of building an arsenal of nuclear missiles. The Pyongyang regime now sees itself entering negotiations from a position of strength as a nuclear power.

The White House narrative is entirely different. It portrays North Korea as cowed into talks by Trump’s determination and the unprecedented international sanctions regime that has been imposed since last September.

However, any expectation Trump might have that Kim will trade his nuclear weapons for sanctions relief may be ill-conceived. Few observers believe the North Korean leader will bargain away lightly what he sees as a guarantee of his dynastic regime’s survival.

A grand bargain

Historically, major summits have followed months or years of carefully orchestrated lower-level negotiations. For this new diplomatic opening to be successful, that order will have to be reversed. The question is whether Kim and Trump would settle for something less than a grand bargain.

North Korea talks: Where will Donald Trump meet Kim Jong-un?

“If [the summit] helps to establish a process for serious, sustained negotiations, then it’s a positive move,” argued Suzanne DiMaggio, a senior fellow at the New America thinktank who has been involved in informal contacts with North Koreans. “But it will have to be managed carefully and with a great deal of prep work.”

There are serious questions over whether the Trump administration is equipped for complex talks. Its leading Korea experts have left and the state department has been excluded. Rex Tillerson, travelling in Africa this week, does not even seem to have been informed of the development. He was still telling journalists on Thursday that negotiations remained a distant prospect.

Trump for now is flying solo, convinced of his expertise in the art of the deal. But his deal-making in the real estate business drove him to bankruptcy several times. The implications of an equivalent failure in nuclear summitry, and how he might react, are sobering.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/ ... c-analysis
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Do you actually expect the combination of Trump and Kim to say anything of substance or accurate in any way? Throw in Putin and it could be a pathological propaganda convention.

Best bet is a lot of pleasantries and vague promises. Trump will tell us that he's made progress about nuclear deals, Kim will make up some fantasy involving unicorns and rainbows for his people, both will praise themselves for opening dialog, two weeks later Trump will go back to calling him Rocket Man and Kim will talk about nuking San Francisco (and a bunch of Republicans will cheer)
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I imagine Trump and Kim will use the occasion to try to make the other look bad. But at least it is one step away from continuing military escalation. This manoeuvring will go on for a long time.

Kim will try to get S Korea and the US to end their joint exercises and would like to see US forces removed from the peninsular. Creating an image of peacemaking in S Korea would help him build support for pressuring the S Korea establishment to ask the Americans to leave.

Trump will have to be careful to avoid looking like a foriegn barbarian.
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Rugoz wrote:They probably talked on the phone and realized they have a lot in common.

There was the conversation between Trump and the Mexican President which was leaked to the press a while back, in which Trump was persuading the Mexican president that Trump's rhetoric was likely to be good for the Mexican president's popularity (though it ultimately wasn't). Ever since that happened, I rather suspected that Trump and Kim were actually playing a somewhat similar game.

Even so. There is that political truism about a stopped clock. Kim Jung Un is I think different from his father and grandfather. The South Korean president also has an entente mandate, and he has quite a large role in all of this.
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If Kim is offering to denuclearise then things must be desperate there. I can't see why else they would suddenly be offering their prized hand. They could have been part of the international community and had good trade relations with the South years ago. Instead they took the route of nuclear arms and took the forecoming santions that came with it. Now they say they will give this up? Well that's great in terms of world peace. But in terms of worthness, they have gone through years of isolation for what? They have gained nothing. Or so it seems.

So my suspicions are they they have taken their nuclear program as far as it can go and have no reason to continue it now. I suspect they will hide whatever they have created as best they can for aid (or whatever it is they want). And I suspect the US will find a way to weasel out of treating NK with the respect they need. So in the end I expect this offer will fail. But does it matter? Well no. NK will always be safe as long as China is on their side. They don't need nukes. They just need to not offer a reason to be attacked. This is a good stategy in that sense. But it can only work if they open themselves to the world. An isolated state has nothing to offer.
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B0ycey wrote:If Kim is offering to denuclearise then things must be desperate there.


Nothing has changed in NI.

Their primary aim has always been to stay in power and dodge US regime change tactics.

All Kim ever wanted is a guarantee from the US that it will not subvert his regime. But, no matter what Trump tells him, the US deep state won't have any of it. The logic of the empire is implacable. Kim needs nukes to survive.

Just like Western leaders assuring Gorbachev that Nato would not expand East, anything Trump can tell Kim is of no value whatsoever.
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Atlantis wrote:Nothing has changed in NI.

Their primary aim has always been to stay in power and dodge US regime change tactics.

All Kim ever wanted is a guarantee from the US that it will not subvert his regime. But, no matter what Trump tells him, the US deep state won't have any of it. The logic of the empire is implacable. Kim needs nukes to survive.

Just like Western leaders assuring Gorbachev that Nato would not expand East, anything Trump can tell Kim is of no value whatsoever.


But does Kim really need a piece of paper to keep security? He has something much more secure than a written guarantee. Chinese backing. Any deal created will be worthless anyways. It will be littered with exceptions and have a to do list that Kim will largely ignore.

NK has never actually needed nukes btw and surely they know this. They have always had the perfect bodyguard. So if NK are changing route, something has to have changed. After all, you don't stop taking a route that has isolated you for years for no reason.
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B0ycey wrote:But does Kim really need a piece of paper to keep security? He has something much more secure than a written guarantee. Chinese backing. Any deal created will be worthless anyways. It will be littered with exceptions and have a to do list that Kim will largely ignore.

NK has never actually needed nukes btw and surely they know this. They have always had the perfect bodyguard. So if NK are changing route, something has to have changed. After all, you don't stop taking a route that has isolated you for years for no reason.


A piece of paper won't be enough. Kim will ask for concessions regarding US troops in the South, joint US/ROC maneuvers, sanctions, etc.

NK has enough conventional artillery to flatten Seoul within hours of any attack to dissuade an attack from South Korea; however, that doesn't mean that the US wouldn't sacrifice Seoul to attack NK. Therefore, Kim needs nukes to dissuade the US.

Backing from Russia and China puts the threshold for an US attack on NK very high. But it won't stop the US from subverting Kim's regime by whatever means possible. The lessons from Saddam and Qaddafi is that only nukes can save Kim.
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It is difficult to see what, if anything, will be gained by President Donald Trump. This will be a talk, not an attempt to begin negotiations toward any goal. For openers, who travels how many miles to where will be seen as a matter of face. Chairman Kim Jong-un will be concerned with such details.
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Trump will meet with Kim Yo Jong, Kim Jong-un's sister who has played a central role in North Korea's smile diplomacy at the Olympics in South Korea. Kim Yo Jong serves as the first vice-director of the North's Workers' Party Central Committee but she may be in charge of the country's foreign affairs now, exerting her good influence on her despot brother, and she's flying to the US as a special envoy. Kim Yo Jong is like Ivanka in the Trump administration, who is also advising her father on various issues. North Korea was saved by this brave woman who emerged from the shadows and the photo below shows that she's controlling and overseeing her brother.



Image

Kim Yo Jong, who serves as the first vice-director of the North's Workers' Party Central Committee, accompanied her brother to a meeting with Seoul's special envoys, and later a welcome dinner in Pyongyang.

The special envoys, led by National Security Office chief Chung Eui Yong, arrived in Pyongyang on Monday for a two-day visit. In an unusual move, Kim Jong Un received the envoys on the first day of their visit and hosted a welcome dinner.

At the meeting held ahead of the dinner, the only other North Korean present was Kim Yong Chol, further fuelling speculations of Kim Yo Jong's rising status.

Kim Yong Chol is vice-chairman of the Central Committee of the Workers' Party and the chief of Pyongyang's organ for dealing with the South.


According to experts, Kim Yo Jong may have played a central role in recent developments in inter-Korean relations.

"There is a possibility that Kim Yo Jong had a significant part in designing the recent changes in relations," Hong Min, director of the North Korean studies division at the Korea Institute for National Unification, was quoted as saying by a local news agency.

http://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-a ... tical-role

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