[Vanasalus]

Turkish-led rebel forces seized control of Syria’s northern city of Afrin on Sunday, according to AFP, as part of an offensive to push Kurdish fighters out of the area.
Free Syrian Army (FSA) rebel forces backed by Turkish troops had entered every neighbourhood in Afrin by late morning, AFP journalists on the ground reported.

Turkish flags had been raised on buildings, alongside the flags of Syrian rebel groups. Two Turkish tanks could also be seen outside an official building and the sound of celebratory gunfire resonated in the air.

Earlier in the day, the Britain-based Syrian Observatory for Human Rights said Turkish-led fighters had made lightning advances inside Afrin, taking control of half the Kurdish-majority city. Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan later confirmed that FSA rebels and Turkish soldiers had seized the city centre.

A civilian inside Afrin said that the Kurdish People's Protection Units (YPG) militia had withdrawn.

The capture of Afrin would be a major victory in Ankara's campaign against the YPG, which Turkey considers a terrorist group.

Ankara launched Operation "Olive Branch" in Afrin two months ago, saying the area near the Turkish border needed to be secured and the YPG pushed out.

The advance has made steady gains and earlier this week Turkish-led forces largely surrounded Afrin city, leaving a single escape route open southwards to territory still held by the YPG or controlled by the Syrian regime.

At least 200,000 civilians had fled the city over the last week, the Observatory said.

Turkish jets and artillery have been battering Afrin for weeks and ground clashes intensified in recent days, raising fears for thousands of civilians trapped in street-to-street fighting.

...............

LINK: http://www.france24.com/en/20180318-syr ... city-afrin


Well, some were predicting that Afrin would be the Turkey's Vietnam.

It seems Syrian PKK (YPG, SDF, Kurdish freedom fighters, or whatever name you choose to use instead) is the paper tiger, blown out of proportion, thanks to American policy of partition of Syria.

It is also clear that cleansing CIA-controlled Gulenist elements from Turkish Army after the failed coup d'etat of 2016 has significantly improved the operational capabilities of the latter.

At this stage, I hope and demand that those civilian people fled to other YPG or regime controlled areas to return back to their homes and farms. Neither Turkey nor YPG nor the Syrian regime must not obscure their right to return and restart their normal daily lives.

Bottomline:


Manjib is next!

We have suffered enough of PKK terror; we don't want a single square foot of land on our borders turning into terror nests under PKK control.

[anasawad]

Good.
There should not be allowed a Kurdish state to rise or Kurdish force to make any significant gains that could lead to it growing in power eventually.

[foxdemon]

So, we can expect the ethnic cleansing to get underway in earnest now?

http://www.dw.com/en/kurds-in-germany-march-against-turkeys-massacre-in-afrin/a-43025769

Seems the German left wholly supports the Kurds.

[Rugoz]

"CIA-controlled Gulenist" . As if Turkey's little incursion in Syria would take place without Russian/American approval.

It's a shame America (partially) sacrifices the Rojava project on the altar of geopolitics.

We have suffered enough of PKK terror; we don't want a single square foot of land on our borders turning into terror nests under PKK control.

You have effectively disenfranchised the Kurdish population in Turkey. What do you expect? You reap what you sow.

[anasawad]

@foxdemon

No need for ethnic cleansing, they should just be kept in check.
They were given full autonomy in Iraq, and they were going to have similar levels in autonomy in Iran. but then they attempted independence militarily. That should not be allowed to happen in Iran as they would break the Zagros chain defense line, in turn allowing an entry into Iran for hostile invaders, whether armies or groups, attempting to cross the heavily defended mountain line separating the heart of Iran from the outside.

A strong and independent Kurdish state in either Iraq or Syria would be a geopolitical and strategic disaster for Iran and as such should be crushed before it rises to any significant level of risk.

[Vanasalus]

You have effectively disenfranchised the Kurdish population in Turkey. What do you expect? You reap what you sow.

As of this moment in Turkey, where "disenfranchised Kurdish population" live, there are 100+ Kurdish MPs in the parliament and 5 Kurdish ministers in the cabinet, including the deputy prime minister.

[foxdemon]

@foxdemon

No need for ethnic cleansing, they should just be kept in check.
They were given full autonomy in Iraq, and they were going to have similar levels in autonomy in Iran. but then they attempted independence militarily. That should not be allowed to happen in Iran as they would break the Zagros chain defense line, in turn allowing an entry into Iran for hostile invaders, whether armies or groups, attempting to cross the heavily defended mountain line separating the heart of Iran from the outside.

A strong and independent Kurdish state in either Iraq or Syria would be a geopolitical and strategic disaster for Iran and as such should be crushed before it rises to any significant level of risk.

Of course there is no need for ethnic cleaning. But the Turks have a checked history on this subject. Will Iran monitor Turkish behaviour?

[anasawad]

@foxdemon
No need for anyone to monitor their behavior.
They're kept in check by the very fact that a large portion of Turkey's population is Kurdish. Any event of ethnic cleansing taken by Turkey will inevitably lead to major troubles at home and the Turkish government knows this.
All they need to do is send a clear message to the Kurds that separatist movements will be crushed and are thus futile.

[foxdemon]

@foxdemon
No need for anyone to monitor their behavior.
They're kept in check by the very fact that a large portion of Turkey's population is Kurdish. Any event of ethnic cleansing taken by Turkey will inevitably lead to major troubles at home and the Turkish government knows this.
All they need to do is send a clear message to the Kurds that separatist movements will be crushed and are thus futile.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/syria-civil-war-assad-regime-turkey-afrin-kurds-eastern-ghouta-us-allies-militia-a8252456.html


Things look grim. Seems Iran and Russia have decided not to stop the Turks. So when people start being driven out or killed, you guys will take responsibility, right?

[Rugoz]

As of this moment in Turkey, where "disenfranchised Kurdish population" live, there are 100+ Kurdish MPs in the parliament and 5 Kurdish ministers in the cabinet, including the deputy prime minister.

Not sure what you're talking about. Where does the HDP have 100 MPs and 5 ministers?

[anasawad]

@foxdemon
Why would we take responsibility for what the Turks do ?

[Vanasalus]

Not sure what you're talking about. Where does the HDP have 100 MPs and 5 ministers?

Meh.

You people like having opinions without any information.

What makes you think Kurds cannot be elected MPs in any party except in HDP?

[foxdemon]

@foxdemon
Why would we take responsibility for what the Turks do ?

Because Iran has agreed to let the Turks take Afrin.

Come on, we all know what the Turks are like. And they ex-ISIS henchmen are even worse. Imagine what they would do if they took over your home city.

[anasawad]

@foxdemon
They did try to take our home cities many many times. They simply cant.

For the responsibility part.
They are acting on their own best interest, which just happened to align with our interests.
Do we take responsibility for the war in Iraq, that is the US invasion of Iraq and its consequences, just because it aligned with our interests ? Ofcourse not, we wanted Saddam removed, and the US wanted hem to be removed and acted on it.
The US is at fault for any consequences of it because they committed the action not us. We just benefited from it.

The same case is with Turkey and the Kurds. The Turks are acting to serve their own interests and save guard their national security, while we happen to be free riders who benefit from them doing so.
Us not taking any measures to stop their actions does not mean we hold any responsibility for them, just that we don't want to be involved. Let them handle it.
Plus, the US has basis right there, why doesn't the US, which is actively providing weapons and support for the Kurds so involved directly in the Turkish-Kurdish conflict, act up or bare any responsibility for any future event in the conflict between the two ?


Lets be real here bro. Those moral decisions are not going to work in the environment in which the middle east is finding itself in right now.
When a state in the middle east make a decision on a set of actions to be taken. That decision will directly reflect on the well being and even survival of the given state. A wrong decision could give an enemy an opportunity to destroy you.
And in this case, the Kurds represent an indirect existential threat as they hold the potential to break the main line of defense for Iran. Which in turn could open up the heart of the country to an invasion at worst, or at best border infiltration by enemy units to cause chaos and attacks inside the country. So allowing the Kurds to go independent or even just grow strong would, indirectly, cause serious and destructive damage to Iran as it would open it to its enemies. That will not be allowed to happen.
If the Kurds wish to pursue this path, then Iran will have no other valid option than turning a blind eye towards any type of event whether it be a massacre or ethnic cleansing that happens to them. They chose the path and they knew the consequences before hand.

[Vanasalus]

Come on, we all know what the Turks are like. And they ex-ISIS henchmen are even worse. Imagine what they would do if they took over your home city.

Pictures of what Americans together with YPG did in Raqqa is out there for everyone to see.

Pictures of what Syrian regime together with Russians, Iranians and Hezbollah did and do in Aleppo, Homs and Damascus is out there for everyone to see too.

And there is no need to imagine things about Turks; pictures of Afrin is out there for all of you to see as well.

[Rugoz]

Meh.

You people like having opinions without any information.

What makes you think Kurds cannot be elected MPs in any party except in HDP?

Wtf? MPs being Kurds doesn't make them represent Kurdish interests. What matters is what the Kurdish population voted for and whether that is accurately represented. By moving against the HDP Erdogan effectively disenfrachised those who voted for them and it robs voters of a that choice.

[Oxymoron]

Turkey needs to be annhilated once and for all, and sent back to the Caves they came from.

[anasawad]

Well, you cant annihilate them. And also, they come from the steppes not from caves.

[Oxymandias]

@foxdemon
They did try to take our home cities many many times. They simply cant.

For the responsibility part.
They are acting on their own best interest, which just happened to align with our interests.
Do we take responsibility for the war in Iraq, that is the US invasion of Iraq and its consequences, just because it aligned with our interests ? Ofcourse not, we wanted Saddam removed, and the US wanted hem to be removed and acted on it.
The US is at fault for any consequences of it because they committed the action not us. We just benefited from it.

The same case is with Turkey and the Kurds. The Turks are acting to serve their own interests and save guard their national security, while we happen to be free riders who benefit from them doing so.
Us not taking any measures to stop their actions does not mean we hold any responsibility for them, just that we don't want to be involved. Let them handle it.
Plus, the US has basis right there, why doesn't the US, which is actively providing weapons and support for the Kurds so involved directly in the Turkish-Kurdish conflict, act up or bare any responsibility for any future event in the conflict between the two ?


Lets be real here bro. Those moral decisions are not going to work in the environment in which the middle east is finding itself in right now.
When a state in the middle east make a decision on a set of actions to be taken. That decision will directly reflect on the well being and even survival of the given state. A wrong decision could give an enemy an opportunity to destroy you.
And in this case, the Kurds represent an indirect existential threat as they hold the potential to break the main line of defense for Iran. Which in turn could open up the heart of the country to an invasion at worst, or at best border infiltration by enemy units to cause chaos and attacks inside the country. So allowing the Kurds to go independent or even just grow strong would, indirectly, cause serious and destructive damage to Iran as it would open it to its enemies. That will not be allowed to happen.
If the Kurds wish to pursue this path, then Iran will have no other valid option than turning a blind eye towards any type of event whether it be a massacre or ethnic cleansing that happens to them. They chose the path and they knew the consequences before hand.

I love you much anasawad!

Anyways you're right, about everything. Iran has every reason to be protectionist especially due to anti-Persian sentiments spread out all over the Arab world. In a sense, Iran is like the Byzantine Empire where one wrong move could lead to it's destruction. We're like a besieged fortress, constantly under attack in all fronts. It's natural to assume our own security.

@Oxymoron

You do realize that you're actually directly related to Turks right? Turks are ethnically Jewish:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khazars

[Vanasalus]

Wtf? MPs being Kurds doesn't make them represent Kurdish interests. What matters is what the Kurdish population voted for and whether that is accurately represented. By moving against the HDP Erdogan effectively disenfrachised those who voted for them and it robs voters of a that choice.

You asked me "Where does the HDP have 100 MPs and 5 ministers?", and I gave your answer.

If you don't like the fact that Kurds "fail" casting all their votes for HDP in 2015 election, it is your problem, not mine.

What will be the reaction of Kurdish voters to Erdogan's administation in next general election, I don't know.

What I know is: in 2017 Referendum, AKP got significantly higher number of "Aye" votes from Kurdish South-East compared to the number of votes it gathered in 2015 general election 2 years earlier.