- 13 Apr 2018 15:13
#14905772
all those who defend this bitch are for sure would condemn her if the same would happen with their favorite president obamba
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Verv wrote:People generally think of attending a wedding, in any capacity, involves the celebration of that event, and the act of preparing things for it has meaning. Baking a cake or making flower arrangements for something explicitly against your religion should not be asked of anyone.Don't go into the business if it's all about how you feel.
Verv wrote:The most important point of all is that nobody should be forced to do something against their will with their business.Your business is not allowed to discriminate against people based on religion. Freedom of religion also means freedom from the constraints of your religion. Feel all you want, but you can't refuse service based on your "feelings". You are not permitted to discriminate against people on the basis of your religion.
Verv wrote:This isn't even libertarianism. This isn't a radical position.It's a very right-wing libertarian position. Freedom of the person trumps that of society, and what is best for society.
Verv wrote:People have rights over their own property and their own businesses.Yes, and freedom of/from religion, is one of them, is a right in most modern societies. You are free to say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, because I am a fundamentalist Christian.", but you are not permitted to deny them service based on that religious belief.
Your business is not allowed to discriminate against people based on religion. Freedom of religion also means freedom from the constraints of your religion. Feel all you want, but you can't refuse service based on your "feelings". You are not permitted to discriminate against people on the basis of your religion.
[...]
Yes, and freedom of/from religion, is one of them, is a right in most modern societies. You are free to say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, because I am a fundamentalist Christian.", but you are not permitted to deny them service based on that religious belief.
When it comes to freedom of religion, you cannot discriminate against others, based on that.
You are free to act in accordance with your religion, unless those circumstances are present.
Freedom of religion is also freedom from it. My freedom to no be discriminated against, because of your religion, is also a religious freedom.
Godstud wrote:So you agree with segregation of blacks and white? You're OK with that kind of discrimination?
Godstud wrote:I cannot deny you service at my restaurant simply because you come in wearing a cross on a chain, even though I don't think Christians are generally good people.
Godstud wrote:Do I also have a right to deny people service, who have beards?
Godstud wrote:You're essentially saying that discrimination/prejudice is OK, as long as the government isn't doing it. Have you even thought this through?
Godstud wrote:I don't think you have a clue what the Founding Fathers envisioned.
Godstud wrote:Was anyone actually hurt by this? Aside from feelings, I mean...
Verv wrote:So what do you think the Founding Fathers envisioned? Endless latino immigration and transgender people collecting welfare while marrying each other?
Zamuel wrote:As I see it - The Constitution provides a vital and cohesive foundation for all state law.
Zamuel wrote:It provides open and transparent means for alteration of it's own content by the will of the people it governs. A methodology that has proven itself through several modifications.
Zamuel wrote:I imagine most of us disagree with parts of what it has become, but, democratic society is based on disagreement.
Zamuel wrote:The US constitution imposes a minimum of that and that is what "The People" have chosen. Love it or leave it.
Zamuel wrote:Are we going back to the days of blacklisting and the government enforced conformity of the McCarthy era? (Wouldn't Trump love that!)
Godstud wrote:Personal beliefs are fine, until they affect the lives of others. That's where your "freedoms" end in a progressive and modern society.
Godstud wrote:I am sure they didn't envision slavery ending, space travel, high literacy rates, and computers.
Godstud wrote:Remember that Statue of Liberty? Tons of conservatives , like you, forget it pretty quickly, when the immigration issue arises.
Godstud wrote:Also, your "feelings" are what makes you think that "the finger" is obscene, so don't talk to me about your feelings not being involved. I don't find the finger obscene. Offensive? Maybe. It's very subjective and a symbol of disdain is not the same as being "obscene".
Godstud wrote:You cannot inflict those beliefs on others, and that means refusing service to people because they don't belong to your fucking religion, or stupid ideology.
Godstud wrote:You simply don't like that people do not have the freedom to discriminate against others because they don't believe the things that you do.
Godstud wrote:You seem to have some imaginary idea that people are as uneducated, ignorant, and racist, as they were 240 years ago.
Verv wrote:Science isn't exactly on the everyone is naturally born as total equals line. Indeed, I cannot think of a more unscientific claim than the presupposition that all peoples are born equal.
Godstud wrote::roll: Why shouldn't she? She's not the one getting married. She's merely providing catering, and they aren't asking for lower rates because they are homosexual. Your reasoning is preposterous.
Godstud wrote:Don't go into the business if it's all about how you feel.
Godstud wrote:You are not permitted to discriminate against people on the basis of your religion.
blackjack21 wrote:Desegregation was favored by the left, because they though segregation was cruel. Today, it is no longer looked down upon. Instead, minorities express a desire to maintain their culture rather than adopt the larger culture. Today's left calls this "multiculturalism." There are television channels like Univision which caters to Hispanics or Black Entertainment Network (BET) which caters to blacks. Soon there will be television channels that cater to whites as they become a mere plurality. "Safe spaces" is all about segregation. That's why it is said that the Sundays are the most segregated day in America.
blackjack21 wrote:rendering the US constitution unfit to carry out its intended purpose in many respects.
It has nothing to do with the United States. It's a French statue that was gifted to the United States. It represents US independence from Great Britain..
Patrickov wrote:Maybe we got it all wrong from the beginning. They might have just been against coerced segregation. No one gives a crap on voluntary segregation except Chinese Communists (who once called those people 自絕於人民, i.e. "alienating themselves from the People")
Patrickov wrote:Maybe we got it all wrong from the beginning. They might have just been against coerced segregation. No one gives a crap on voluntary segregation except Chinese Communists (who once called those people 自絕於人民, i.e. "alienating themselves from the People")
Zamuel wrote:Majority rule disagrees with you ... (thankfully)
Zamuel wrote:Initially perhaps, it has since acquired a great deal of meaning as an American Icon.
Zamuel wrote:But hey, Columbia is a pagan goddess, we should probably melt it down and make beer mugs from it.
One Degree wrote:Yes, I have been saying this for quite awhile. They got it wrong when they decided forced integration was the permanent solution to forced segregation. It was only a temporary necessity. Equality is being free to choose which you want. Denying either does not benefit the individual.
Zionist Nationalist wrote:all those who defend this bitch are for sure would condemn her if the same would happen with their favorite president obamba
Godstud wrote:Don't go into the business if it's all about how you feel.
Your business is not allowed to discriminate against people based on religion. Freedom of religion also means freedom from the constraints of your religion. Feel all you want, but you can't refuse service based on your "feelings". You are not permitted to discriminate against people on the basis of your religion.
It's a very right-wing libertarian position. Freedom of the person trumps that of society, and what is best for society.
Yes, and freedom of/from religion, is one of them, is a right in most modern societies. You are free to say, "I don't approve of gay marriage, because I am a fundamentalist Christian.", but you are not permitted to deny them service based on that religious belief.
Verv wrote:Likewise, how could I say that a gay bar should be forced to let myself & 20 colleagues come in every night, sit at all the tables, and order cheap coffees once every two hours just to disrupt the atmosphere and proselytize, doesn't have a righ tto bar us from coming...They wouldn't be kicking you out for being anything other than shit customers, if they did so.
Verv wrote: So if I were to demand that a Jewish baker put a big, fat swastika on a cake for me, and he sensibly tells me to fuck off and he doesn't approve, he doesn't have the right, because it is discriminatory, correct?That's not a religious reason, is it? It's got nothing to do with religion.
Verv wrote:He is allowed to believe what he wants about Nazis, but to not discriminate against them, rightNo, because this has nothing to do with religion. Nazis practice an offensive ideology that promote hatred against Jews, and minorities. His discrimination would have basis in nazi hate speech, and in reason, not simply "feelings" or "belief".
Verv wrote:it's not a silly example either because you know bands like Taake and organizations like American Renaissance are denied the right to rent out hotels or play at venues due to threats from the Left. This is a form of discrimination, right, and they should be forced to host them or else they infringe on the rights of the far right fellahs, right?To repeat this... it's not based on religious FEELINGS. The reasons are legitimate, and realistic.
Godstud wrote:Confusion only if you can't differentiate hate speech from religious belief. There is nothing confusing about it.
I wasn't mentioned race, so your argument is BS. That said, a person's appearance isn't something you should be discriminating against, particularly if it's how they were born.
One Degree wrote:Refusing them service can be argued as endangering public safety, and I think our Supreme Court would readily agree.WTF are you babbling about? refusing service to someone who avidly uses hate speech against you endangers public safety? What rubbish.
One Degree wrote:Your own identity politics can be used against you simply by the change in the court.That is how society operates. Right-wingers just cry more when it's used against them.
One Degree wrote:This is why people need to look beyond today.Right, and yet people like you look to the past and try to take us BACKWARDS.
Godstud wrote:WTF are you babbling about? refusing service to someone who avidly uses hate speech against you endangers public safety? What rubbish.
That is how society operates. Right-wingers just cry more when it's used against them.
Right, and yet people like you look to the past and try to take us BACKWARDS.
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