Colorado State University screws up. - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14913536
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:This was in response to Pod's claim that police contact is dangerous for non-whites, i.e. he's saying the women put the two boys at risk of being shot. Nothing could be further from the truth, as the chances of being shot or even experiencing violence when dealing with a police officer in the US are minuscule for anybody regardless of skin colour, at least as long as you don't attack the police officer. It's Pod's charge that deserves ridicule rather than the response which presents some data and is based on facts.


Please present the facts.

Also, please note that I have already provided evidence shoing that indigenous people are the ethnicity with the highest risk of being shot by police.

Also, please note the following:

    Their mother has received lots of comments about how composed her sons appear in the video.

    "As a Native mother I've been training my boys … about those things. It's sad in this day and age that you have to teach your young sons to be afraid of law enforcement," said Gray.

    "I never believed it would come to the time when they would be tested on it, and they passed with flying colours, and the world has seen it.… I am very proud."

http://www.cbc.ca/radio/asithappens/as- ... -1.4651828

So, their mother was also worried about this. This makes sense if you are a Mohawk, considering how Mohawks have been treated by government officlas in the past.

I assume that most mothers do not have to worry about their children being stabbed in the chest by soldiers while carrying four year olds.
#14913545
I can't really tell if everyone commenting is from the US or not. I think it's kind of odd that people are saying that minority teens run-ins with cops are fine and dandy and shouldn't result in any fear or panic whatsoever on the part of the children involved.

I mean... If a kid of any color says "Ummm... the cops scare me for reasons far beyond anything I've done" which in this particular case seems to be true, I mean... I just don't get doubting their word. Particularly in a case like this where no one is saying "They were up to something". It's clear they weren't. At all. Even a little. They were two college kids from the sticks, wanting more out of life, and were doing things the right way to get that. The so-called "American Dream" we're all supposed to tear up about when we refer to it.

So sure we can offer all sorts of statistics on fatal encounters with the police if we like, but it shouldn't be news to anyone that African Americans, Latinos of any nationality south of our border, Asians, or Natives in any of the Americas have historically had troubles with law enforcement far exceeding any amount of criminality any of them have ever done. It's been shown that where cops patrol, more arrests happen. Patrol the hood, you arrest kids in the 'hood.

Hey, I know some local cops, they aren't bad guys and I've nothing personal against any cop except these couple assholes in Kansas, but in a larger sense, the institution they serve is suspect as best as it relates to a necessary social structure "that benefits the majority of the people". As far as I can tell, cops pretty much just help rich people stay rich, and kind of mess over anyone society deems a threat to that in even a small way. :hmm:

Anyway, to each their own, but again it just seems to defy obvious common sense if you've spent even a small amount of time with any minorities of any stripe or color. *shrugs*
#14913556
Morgan Le Fey wrote:I can't really tell if everyone commenting is from the US or not. I think it's kind of odd that people are saying that minority teens run-ins with cops are fine and dandy and shouldn't result in any fear or panic whatsoever on the part of the children involved.

I mean... If a kid of any color says "Ummm... the cops scare me for reasons far beyond anything I've done" which in this particular case seems to be true, I mean... I just don't get doubting their word. Particularly in a case like this where no one is saying "They were up to something". It's clear they weren't. At all. Even a little. They were two college kids from the sticks, wanting more out of life, and were doing things the right way to get that. The so-called "American Dream" we're all supposed to tear up about when we refer to it.

So sure we can offer all sorts of statistics on fatal encounters with the police if we like, but it shouldn't be news to anyone that African Americans, Latinos of any nationality south of our border, Asians, or Natives in any of the Americas have historically had troubles with law enforcement far exceeding any amount of criminality any of them have ever done. It's been shown that where cops patrol, more arrests happen. Patrol the hood, you arrest kids in the 'hood.



Hey, I know some local cops, they aren't bad guys and I've nothing personal against any cop except these couple assholes in Kansas, but in a larger sense, the institution they serve is suspect as best as it relates to a necessary social structure "that benefits the majority of the people". As far as I can tell, cops pretty much just help rich people stay rich, and kind of mess over anyone society deems a threat to that in even a small way. :hmm:

Anyway, to each their own, but again it just seems to defy obvious common sense if you've spent even a small amount of time with any minorities of any stripe or color. *shrugs*


So you are using your biased political view on race and the police to assume these two boys were the picture of innocence? Two teenage boys visiting a University campus. No reason to believe they may have been ‘having some fun’? Placing ‘group think’ above what we know about all teenagers is to willingly blind yourself to reality for the sake of promoting political bias.
There is no reason for this to even be a thread. We don’t know these two boys and it is not even clear what happened. Well, Basically nothing happened. Just an opportunity to create racism where it probably did not exist. Woman thought she noticed strange behavior. Called police as we are taught to do. Police did their job.
Where’s the problem?
#14913775
Investigated for sleeping while black.
https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAx5cVN?m=en-us
I'm gonna stick this in here rather than start a new thread. It's a minor incident a Yale university. A White student called the cops about a Black student who dosed off in a common room while studying. Another example of the tensions that are arising due to recent politics.

Zam
#14913801
Zamuel wrote:Investigated for sleeping while black.
https://a.msn.com/r/2/AAx5cVN?m=en-us
I'm gonna stick this in here rather than start a new thread. It's a minor incident a Yale university. A White student called the cops about a Black student who dosed off in a common room while studying. Another example of the tensions that are arising due to recent politics.

Zam


More creating racism where it does not apply? The guy is a nutcase who calls the police about everything.
#14913805
One Degree wrote:More creating racism where it does not apply? The guy is a nutcase who calls the police about everything.

Put your glasses on … it's a girl (white), not a guy … She's a YALE student living on campus. Nothing is said about chronic complaints. have some coffee, sober up. :lol:

Zam
#14913809
Zamuel wrote:Put your glasses on … it's a girl (white), not a guy … She's a YALE student living on campus. Nothing is said about chronic complaints. have some coffee, sober up. :lol:

Zam


I didn’t watch your video. Just read a similar story or different version of this story. I watched it. Should not be newsworthy. Stupid people do stupid shit all the time. Using it as proof of systemic racism is paranoia. Looks like a ‘do gooder’ Versus an ‘idealist’. It is sad anyone thinks this is newsworthy.
#14913811
Pants-of-dog wrote:Please present the facts.

Also, please note that I have already provided evidence shoing that indigenous people are the ethnicity with the highest risk of being shot by police.



The Shocking Numbers

Native Americans are disproportionately killed by the police. The number of Native Americans killed by law enforcement increased from 13 in 2015 to 24 in 2016, as reported by The Counted, a project on The Guardian which reports on police killings. Fatal Encounters, another database that covers instances of police brutality, reports that 18 Native Americans were killed so far in 2017;

5.2 million Native Americans in the US


:lol:
#14913832
One Degree wrote:I didn’t watch your video.

But felt compelled to comment on it … yeah, we figured that out Mr. reliable.

Zam :roll:
#14913836
Zamuel wrote:But felt compelled to comment on it … yeah, we figured that out Mr. reliable.

Zam :roll:


Well, not even I expected the MSM propaganda machine to produce two different versions of the same ridiculous ‘news’.
#14913858
Honestly, I don't see what the big problem is here with the kids who got questioned.

The woman who called the police is an idiot and so is the police dispatcher, but their actions show the effectiveness of the "See Something Say Something" brainwashing campaign from the Obama years and the recent media-generated hysteria of the school shootings from the past few years.

Based on the propaganda we are fed here in the US, these women were just doing what they were supposed to be doing.
#14914079
Pants-of-dog wrote:
Please present the facts.

Also, please note that I have already provided evidence shoing that indigenous people are the ethnicity with the highest risk of being shot by police.

Also, please note the following:

Please see Sivad's post for absolute numbers.

A comparative is meaningless. How much higher? Have you taken into account the violent crime rate? Are police officers more often physically attacked by Native Americans than by other ethnic groups who are less likely to be killed?

I wouldn't be surprised if some minorities had a skewed impression of the actual danger of police officers and were afraid. After all, they are given the impression by progressives that they are under siege by police.

Sivad wrote:
The Shocking Numbers

Native Americans are disproportionately killed by the police. The number of Native Americans killed by law enforcement increased from 13 in 2015 to 24 in 2016, as reported by The Counted, a project on The Guardian which reports on police killings. Fatal Encounters, another database that covers instances of police brutality, reports that 18 Native Americans were killed so far in 2017;

5.2 million Native Americans in the US

:lol:

Cheers. :)

-------------------------------------------------

Also, for those who find it odd that the women called the police, note that police and security agencies tend to encourage people to phone them even if they are not sure that there is a problem, e.g. from Uni of Illinois:
Be alert, and trust your instincts. If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't. Call police if something looks odd — we're happy to assist, and even the smallest bit of information could prevent another crime.

Edit: Just saw that maz beat me to it by a full day. You could say the woman was trying to be a good citizen. Not everybody has good judgement so misunderstandings and errors are bound to happen. If people are encouraged to report, there are going to be a few false positives.
Last edited by Kaiserschmarrn on 12 May 2018 09:54, edited 1 time in total.
#14914096
Decky wrote:Why is the US so full of grasses?

For others like me who don't comprehend the British dialectic at times:

English: grasser - grasser in British (ˈɡrɑːsə)
noun - informal, an informer

Collins English Dictionary. Copyright © HarperCollins Publishers

I'd guess the American tradition may be due to the abundance of small, independent protestant religions that developed during pioneer days. As communities grew around them they sometimes induced a competition among parishioners about who could be the most moral and righteous.

Theological sentiments were of course always pro-police.

Zam :knife:
#14914129
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:Please see Sivad's post for absolute numbers.

A comparative is meaningless. How much higher? Have you taken into account the violent crime rate? Are police officers more often physically attacked by Native Americans than by other ethnic groups who are less likely to be killed?


So, do you think the mother worries too much about the possibility of her children being harassed by police for not being white?

Because she certainly seems to have been correct here.

I wouldn't be surprised if some minorities had a skewed impression of the actual danger of police officers and were afraid. After all, they are given the impression by progressives that they are under siege by police.


This argument imples that indigenous people have no agency and are simply unintelligent dupes who are being led around by progressives.

Also, for those who find it odd that the women called the police, note that police and security agencies tend to encourage people to phone them even if they are not sure that there is a problem, e.g. from Uni of Illinois:

Edit: Just saw that maz beat me to it by a full day. You could say the woman was trying to be a good citizen. Not everybody has good judgement so misunderstandings and errors are bound to happen. If people are encouraged to report, there are going to be a few false positives.


I guess being quiet and brown counts as suspicious behaviour.

Why did she call the cops instead of simply ask the tour guide if the two kids were with the tour?
#14914253
Pants-of-dog wrote:So, do you think the mother worries too much about the possibility of her children being harassed by police for not being white?
Because she certainly seems to have been correct here.

You are a moving target. Earlier you claimed her statement implied she was worried about them being shot. But yes, if that's what she is talking about, she probably worries too much.

Pants-of-dog wrote:This argument imples that indigenous people have no agency and are simply unintelligent dupes who are being led around by progressives.

Note that I said some and as far as I can tell, plenty of smart progressives sincerely believe it too. I mean you seem smart and you believe it, don't you?

We also had a thread a while ago about a white women refusing to leave her car when stopped by police because she was worried about being shot. The police officer tried to get her to step outside by quoting the dominant media narrative back to her that only blacks get shot. Of course, he got into trouble for being racist. :lol: That story encapsulates the absurdity of the situation in the US.

Pants-of-dog wrote:I guess being quiet and brown counts as suspicious behaviour.
Why did she call the cops instead of simply ask the tour guide if the two kids were with the tour?

I can't say what went on in her mind, but you seem awfully keen to attribute her actions to some kind of malice.
#14914256


What's wrong with the two Indian teens was their death metal T-shirts. They should have dressed properly like prospective students rather than looking like thugs from a bad neighborhood. I would not wear a Metallica T-shirt at an upscale university.

You know the story: Thomas Kanewakeron Gray, 19, and Lloyd Skanahwati Gray, 17, drove from Española, New Mexico, to Fort Collins for a scheduled campus tour. They arrived late.

They joined a tour in progress and were not particularly forthcoming when asked questions by members of the group. Their appearance and behavior alarmed a woman on the tour: She called CSU police to report her concern, even as she said, “It's probably nothing. I'm probably being completely paranoid with just everything that's happened ...”

https://www.coloradoan.com/story/opinio ... 592463002/
#14914267
Kaiserschmarrn wrote:You are a moving target. Earlier you claimed her statement implied she was worried about them being shot. But yes, if that's what she is talking about, she probably worries too much.


Considering that soldiers were sent to oppress Mohawks within living memory, and that children were hurt and almost killed in that encounter, it seems reasonable for the mother to fear for her children’s safety.

And any fears of being harassed were obviously correct.

Note that I said some and as far as I can tell, plenty of smart progressives sincerely believe it too. I mean you seem smart and you believe it, don't you?

We also had a thread a while ago about a white women refusing to leave her car when stopped by police because she was worried about being shot. The police officer tried to get her to step outside by quoting the dominant media narrative back to her that only blacks get shot. Of course, he got into trouble for being racist. :lol: That story encapsulates the absurdity of the situation in the US.


That cops routinely shoot people of colour and get away with it?

Yes, because it actually happens. 387 people have been shot by police in the US so far this year. That is more than one a day. Of course, people of colour have been disproportionately affected.

I can't say what went on in her mind, but you seem awfully keen to attribute her actions to some kind of malice.


My motives may be pure evil, but that does not affect my argument. If she honestly suspected that they were not part of the tour group, she could have easily confirmed this with the tour guide. Instead, she called police and got them to come based on her incorrect understanding of the situation.
#14914294
Pants-of-dog wrote:Considering that soldiers were sent to oppress Mohawks within living memory, and that children were hurt and almost killed in that encounter, it seems reasonable for the mother to fear for her children’s safety.

And any fears of being harassed were obviously correct.

OK, you moved the goalposts again. :lol: Now you are claiming her fear is based on a past event that is completely unrelated to this incident. She is apparently incapable of distinguishing between what appears to have been a military operation a long time ago and two police officers responding to a call. If this is the case, it sounds more like paranoia or some PTSD type issue than a reasonable fear.

Pants-of-dog wrote:That cops routinely shoot people of colour and get away with it?

No, that wasn't my question. We've already established that the chances of being shot by a police officer are minuscule, regardless of ethnic background. Taking the higher number of 24 in 2016 in Sivad's post, the chance is 5 per million for Native Americans. I think any reasonable person would have to admit that this is not sufficient grounds for being fearful of contact with police officers. Do you agree?

Pants-of-dog wrote:My motives may be pure evil, but that does not affect my argument. If she honestly suspected that they were not part of the tour group, she could have easily confirmed this with the tour guide. Instead, she called police and got them to come based on her incorrect understanding of the situation.

Well, yes, she misjudged the situation. It happens, especially if people are encouraged to call the police even if in doubt.
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