Colorado State University screws up. - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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Talk about what you've seen in the news today.

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#14912407
One Degree wrote:Your welcome.


Lol. Yes, we all agree that some white people are racist, and others do not see the racism.

I think we will find out the ‘white woman’ was in charge of this group and had a legitimate reason for questioning them. Let’s wait and find out.


Like what? That they were not part of the tour? They were and had proof that they were.

That they were a threat? The police determined they were not.

As far as I can tell, the only reason she had for questioning them was skin colour.

——————————

Sivad wrote:It's silly to expect everyone to know the specific interpersonal customs of thousands of cultures. It makes a lot more sense for the natives to learn how to behave in mainstream culture. You're not going to get very far in America if you refuse to introduce yourself or make eye contact.


I do not expect everyone to know everything about al indigenous communities, but knowing enough about a few to realise that you do not know very much and can interpret things incorrectly is a good start.

They didn't contradict her, they explained that their odd behavior was due to extreme shyness.


I never said the two kids contradicted the white woman. I said the stories of the kids contradicted the testimony of the white woman. She said they were laughing and lying. They said they were not.
#14912409
Sivad wrote:Bullshit. I know and interact with natives all the time,

Navaho and Apache? I kind of doubt it. Those (and related) cultures consider even gazing directly at someone as "offensive." Inappropriate laughter is one ways they reduce tension. Names are sacred and only disclosed after thoughtful consideration. I live in Az. and encounter this sort of behavior a lot. They are not like the gregarious "Sioux and Cheyenne" who you are more likely to encounter north of Denver.

Anybody acting like that would have made people leery.

Possibly, given the present paranoia regarding active shooters. The woman who called said they were "Mexicans" so I'm guessing she was from a somewhat sheltered background.

Zam
#14912411
Pants-of-dog wrote:Lol. Yes, we all agree that some white people are racist, and others do not see the racism.



Like what? That they were not part of the tour? They were and had proof that they were.

That they were a threat? The police determined they were not.

As far as I can tell, the only reason she had for questioning them was skin colour.

——————————



I do not expect everyone to know everything about al indigenous communities, but knowing enough about a few to realise that you do not know very much and can interpret things incorrectly is a good start.

Edit: @Pants-of-dog all people are racist. Harping on only white people being racist is ignorant and racist.



I never said the two kids contradicted the white woman. I said the stories of the kids contradicted the testimony of the white woman. She said they were laughing and lying. They said they were not.


She was supposedly a ‘middle aged woman’ on a college campus. It is a reasonable assumption she may have been in charge. How did they provide ‘proof’ without giving their names? If you hand me a piece of paper and refuse to acknowledge whether your names match the paper, I would be very suspicious. Anyone should be.
#14912429
skinster wrote:Oh. Well, people hardly look at each other here or notice each other, it's all ME ME ME and where I NEED TO GET TO on these streets. :|


On the streets it's like that because there are so many freaks, but in a college orientation setting New Yorkers introduce themselves and make eye contact just like everybody else.
#14912430
Sivad wrote:Why do you thinks it's so exceptionally rare for someone to know an Apache? Millions of people know Apache tribal members.

I don't recall saying there was anything "Rare" about Apache's. They're indigenous to Az. Nm. and Northern Sonora, Mex. They operate resorts and casinos here in Az. Their culture and behavior is quite unique. Ethnically they're closely related to the Navaho.

Zam
#14912433
Zamuel wrote:I don't recall saying there was anything "Rare" about Apache's.


You said you "kind of doubt" I know any Apaches. That's a weird thing to doubt, Apaches aren't like the legendary sasquatch, lots of people know Apaches.
#14912450
Sivad wrote:You said you "kind of doubt" I know any Apaches. That's a weird thing to doubt, Apaches aren't like the legendary sasquatch, lots of people know Apaches.

I disagree. There are several Apache tribes and they all have different requirements (blood%) for membership. Many Americans have Apache blood but do not qualify as tribal members (yet they continue to claim Apache heritage. I know several). Usually (real) tribal members shun them.

White Mt. Apaches must have at least one full blooded Apache grandparent. Unless they marry within the tribe, their children will not qualify for tribal membership.

The 2010 census put tribal Apache population at around 65,000. It put the total US population at around 310 million. I'll let someone else do the math but that's going to be in the neighborhood of 1 Apache per 5,000 Americans. "Hey neighbor!"

Zam
#14912472
One Degree wrote:She was supposedly a ‘middle aged woman’ on a college campus. It is a reasonable assumption she may have been in charge. How did they provide ‘proof’ without giving their names? If you hand me a piece of paper and refuse to acknowledge whether your names match the paper, I would be very suspicious. Anyone should be.


Well, next time someone does not answer one of my questions, I will call the police.

Because that is totally worth risking gun violence!
#14912486
Pants-of-dog wrote:Well, next time someone does not answer one of my questions, I will call the police.

Because that is totally worth risking gun violence!


:lol:

"It's an extraordinarily rare event. But the fact is, (in) 2012, there were 12,197,000 arrests in the United States, OK? And there were 410 uses of deadly force. Now that is, I think, three-thousands of a percent. So, it’s still an extraordinarily rare event."

one police killing in 0.00003 percent of all arrests

http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/sta ... age-arres/


Among persons who had contact with police in 2008 [approximately 40 million], an estimated 1.4% had force used or threatened against them during their most recent contact, which was not statistically different from the percentages in 2002 (1.5%) and 2005 (1.6%).

https://www.bjs.gov/index.cfm?ty=tp&tid=84
#14912515
I like how you guys look at cop shootings in general while ignoring cops attacking people of colour in particular.

Anyway, how does this relate to my point that not answering questions (if that even happened) does not deserve a response by armed police officers?
#14912525
Pants-of-dog wrote:Anyway, how does this relate to my point that not answering questions (if that even happened) does not deserve a response by armed police officers?


If the boys were behaving as strangely as the woman claims they were then calling the cops is understandable. I doubt that woman is some kind of hardcore racist who just wanted to fuck with a couple of native kids. Look at it this way, if I went around the rez where eye contact is considered disrespectful looking people in the eyes and they felt threatened and called the cops I'd understand that too.
#14912530
Well, if all it takes to rationalise police interrogation of non-whites is the unsupported fears of racist white women, then this is yet another example of how racism has not ended in western societies.

I do not think it is understandable to call the cops because of what she claims. I know you guys do. But obviously the kids did not, the university did not, I do not, their mother does not, and your feelings about how understandable it is are not an argument.
#14912537
Pants-of-dog wrote:I do not think it is understandable to call the cops because of what she claims. I know you guys do. But obviously the kids did not, the university did not, I do not, their mother does not, and your feelings about how understandable it is are not an argument.


Your feelings about how outrageous it is is not an argument. Most people do understand that calling the cops for bizarre behavior is perfectly reasonable and that charging racism in any and every minor incident involving a minority is not. So you lose in the court of public opinion and that's all that matters in cases like these.
#14912557
Sivad wrote:LOL

That's right, turn away and attack the polite lightweight … Looks like cowardice to me. :p

Pants-of-dog wrote: Well, if all it takes to rationalize police interrogation of non-whites is the unsupported fears of racist white women, then this is yet another example of how racism has not ended in western societies.

Possibly. It's also an example of the Paranoia Isis and Al-Quade have instilled in America.

Zam
#14912561
Sivad wrote:Your feelings about how outrageous it is is not an argument.


Then it is a good thing I never used my feelings as an argument. For example, I never said that the accusations of racism are understandable.

Most people do understand that calling the cops for bizarre behavior is perfectly reasonable and that charging racism in any and every minor incident involving a minority is not. So you lose in the court of public opinion and that's all that matters in cases like these.


Yes, public majority opinion, aka white opinion, is perfectly okay with calling the police because some coloured boys were acting uppity.

But in debate, such as we are involved in now, this is a fallacy called appeal to popularity.

That does not change the fact that this white woman was, at best, acting out of ignorance of indigenous cultural mores, and was possibly racist.

----------------

Zamuel wrote:Possibly. It's also an example of the Paranoia Isis and Al-Quade have instilled in America.


That is an interesting take on it.

If that is the case, and it may well be, then ISIS and Al-Qaeda are more effective than I thought. They would then have managed to effectively make many white US residents fearful of any person of colour.

Now that I put that way, it does not seem that difficult to pull off.
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