[Atlantis]

@Zamuel, the Saudis have been trying to buy German arms for a long time. The German government has refused to grant numerous licences to export arms to SA. During the Saudi state visit to Berlin last year, the diplomatic formula "SA will no longer seek German arms" was adopted to avoid a loss of face. But things have deteriorated since. There is an EP resolution calling for a ban of arms exports to the combatants of the Yemeni war, which unfortunately both the French and Brits violate to earn their blood money. It's sad when a nation doesn't produce anything useful. But you ought to know how that feels.

[Oxymandias]

@Zionist Nationalist

By the time the Republic was only 5 years old it was thrown into a war with Iraq, with Iraq as the aggressor. Shortly afterward it had to deal with a proxy on its own territory. Then it had to deal with the US threatening to destroy it and the close proximity of US bases in Iran.

Iran’s military doctrine revolves around the idea of preventing foreign powers from interfering in Iran and to protect it from foreign aggression. This includes funding proxies which are friendly towards Iran. I’ll also have you note that Iran only began engaging in proxy wars after Saudi Arabia began doing so in order to expand their influence by funding extremist anti-Shia militant groups.

Furthermore, spreading ideals aren’t the same thing as becoming a hegemony and Iran hasn’t taken any actions so far which play into this goal. America certainly was more receptive of countries which were democratic and encouraged different nations to become democratic earlier in its life but I wouldn’t call that expansionism by any means.

Also Hezbollah doesn’t take orders from anyone nor does control Lebanon. I can’t understand how you honestly believe what you see on Israeli TV (hey that kinda rhymed).

[Zionist Nationalist]

Also Hezbollah doesn’t take orders from anyone nor does control Lebanon. I can’t understand how you honestly believe what you see on Israeli TV (hey that kinda rhymed).

Hezbollah have the most powerful armed forces in Lebanon. they decide the fate of the country and none can stop them

and its being financed by Iran and supported by its allies of course they take orders from them it would be naive to think otherwise

and I dont watch the TV at all.

By the time the Republic was only 5 years old it was thrown into a war with Iraq, with Iraq as the aggressor. Shortly afterward it had to deal with a proxy on its own territory. Then it had to deal with the US threatening to destroy it and the close proximity of US bases in Iran.

thats true but the Islamic regime was hostile from the beginning. remember the hostage crisis?
it showed their true intentions

Iran’s military doctrine revolves around the idea of preventing foreign powers from interfering in Iran and to protect it from foreign aggression. This includes funding proxies which are friendly towards Iran. I’ll also have you note that Iran only began engaging in proxy wars after Saudi Arabia began doing so in order to expand their influence by funding extremist anti-Shia militant groups.

not true. Hezbollah was created by 1985 and shorty after that Iran begun supporting it.

[daf]

thats true but the Islamic regime was hostile from the beginning. remember the hostage crisis?
it showed their true intentions

They are still chanting Death to America. Even the "reformist" Zarif

[Oxymandias]

@Zionist Nationalist

That doesn’t mean that Hezbollah takes orders from anyone nor that it controls Lebanon. Your argument is invalid.

That was hyperbole. I wasn’t claiming that you watch TV, it was just throwing shade.

The hostage crisis occurred because the US took in Mohammad Reza after the revolution. The Republic wanted him, their oppressor, to have a trial for the crimes he committed during his regime but America refused. This has nothing to do with anti-America rhetoric. Had Reza went to North Korea the response would be the same. To assume that the hostage crisis happened because Iran was hostile to the West is misguided.

So just because Iran supports Hezbollah this means that Iran isn’t defending itself? Nothing you said here proves your point or refutes mine. Just because Iran supports Hezbollah doesn’t mean it doesn’t have a defensive military doctrine for example. And just because Hezbollah is supported by Iran doesn’t mean that Iran isn’t using proxies to defend itself.

Saying “Iran funds Hezbollah” isn’t an argument and certainly doesn’t damage any of mine.

[Oxymandias]

@daf

Well when the US disposed of your democratically elected Prime Minister and places a totalitarian dictator in charge because your Prime Minister wanted to nationalize oil, you have a really good reason for disliking America.

Also the Death to America thing is just empty bluffing. No one in the government or the population actually believes in killing America and you’d be hard pressed to find any one who actually does. Also this is after the US stepped out of the Iran deal.

[daf]

Also this is after the US stepped out of the Iran deal.

That's the irony

Iranian FM caught chanting death to US, UK, Israel

Iranian Foreign Minister Mohammad Javad Zarif, considered a moderate by many, was caught on tape Thursday joining a crowd in a chant calling for the destruction of Iran's enemies—among them the US, UK and Israel.

https://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,734 ... 24,00.html

The chant broke out after a speech delivered by Iran's Supreme Leader Ayatollah Ali Khamenei held in Tehran. The crowd is then heard chanting "Death to America", "Death to Britain" and "Death to Israel," all while Zarif is seen smiling and mouthing the words shouted by the participants. Among the participants in the event were Iran's Atomic Energy Commission, former Foreign Minister Ali Akbar Salehi and Iran's Chief of Staff General Mohammed Hussein Bakri. Zarif left last week for a trip to Asia and Europe as part of efforts to maintain the nuclear agreement after the US withdrew from it. In the days before President Trump's decision to withdraw from the deal, Zarif attacked the United States and Israel, threatening I ran is ready to resume its nuclear activities "at a much greater speed" should the US decides to pull out of the 2015 international agreement aimed at preventing Tehran from obtaining a nuclear weapon.


On Wednesday, Khamenei set out seven conditions for Tehran to stay in its nuclear deal with world powers, including steps by European banks to safeguard trade with Tehran. Khamenei’s official website said that he also stipulated European powers must protect Iranian oil sales from US pressure and continue buying Iranian crude, and must promise they would not seek new negotiations on Iran’s ballistic missile program and regional Middle East activities. "European banks should safeguard trade with the Islamic Republic. We do not want to start a fight with these three countries (France, Germany and Britain) but we don’t trust them either," Khamenei said. "Europe should fully guarantee Iran’s oil sales. In case Americans can damage our oil sales..., Europeans should make up for that and buy Iranian oil."


This came after US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo on Monday demanded Iran to make sweeping changes that would force it to effectively reverse the recent spread of its military and political influence through the Middle East to the shores of the Mediterranean Sea. If Washington sees tangible shifts in Iran’s policies, it is prepared to lift sanctions, Pompeo stressed, but added that "the sting of sanctions will only grow more painful if the regime does not change course from the unacceptable and unproductive path it has chosen for itself and the people of Iran."

[Oxymandias]

@daf

I don’t see how it’s ironic.

[daf]

Iran Death to America cartoon

[Oxymandias]

@daf

I already explained why “Death to America” is popular rhetoric amongst politics in Iran. I don’t intend to repeat myself, especially considering that you seem unlikely to consider anything outside of the narrative you’ve built for yourself.

Also the last comic is wrong. The idea that Iran had more money after the deal is hilarious.

[Zamuel]

Also the Death to America thing is just empty bluffing. No one in the government or the population actually believes

Yeah @daf it's all just a big joke.



Ya Know ?

Zam

[Oxymandias]

@Zamuel

I never said it was a joke. Simply that Iran is all talk and no play. The idea that Iran wants to actually put America to death is laughable.

Also I don’t know what nooses have to do with this. Do think that Iran wants to hang America or something?

[daf]

Yeah @daf it's all just a big joke.

Ya Know ?

Zam

The joke is about your previous president

[Oxymandias]

@daf

Do you not understand continuity? Zam was referring to me saying that “Death to America” was just a bluff and sarcastically (or at least I think it’s sarcasm) stated it was all a joke. Then he posted a picture of a bunch of nooses since he likes nooses or something.

It doesn’t have to do with the US stepping from the Iran deal due to Iran saying Death to America. In fact, Trump hasn’t mentioned the fact that Iran uses the phrase at all when talking about the Iran deal. Many Americans don’t even cite that as the reason why they disagree with the Iran deal. Most Americans have issue with the terms of the Iran deal, not Iran’s stance on the West.

[Zamuel]

The joke is about your previous president

No doubt he failed … but they can't say the USA didn't TRY … It could have been the beginning of True Love ( ) if not for that incorrigible old "Supreme Leader."



Zam

[Zamuel]

It doesn’t have to do with the US stepping from the Iran deal due to Iran saying Death to America. In fact, Trump hasn’t mentioned the fact that Iran uses the phrase at all when talking about the Iran deal.

I guess you missed this.

https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Trump-Who-signs-a-deal-when-theyre-shouting-Death-to-America-553526 Speaking at the NRA convention in Dallas Texas Friday night US President Donald Trump argued against the Iran deal made by the previous administration by arguing that the deal should not have been made as long as Iranians are shouting "Death to America."

Oooops …

Zam

[daf]

I guess you missed this.

Oooops …

Zam

Death to America

[daf]

No doubt he failed … but they can't say the USA didn't TRY … It could have been the beginning of True Love ( ) if not for that incorrigible old "Supreme Leader."

Zam

Zam, do you know if this bow is photoshop?

Even during Obama presidency

[Zamuel]

Zam, do you know if this bow is photoshop?

I would say yes, the head is out of proportion and it's angle seems slightly skewed, but I could be wrong. It also seems out of character. My big question would be, where are the Secret Service Men?

Zam

[Oxymandias]

@Zamuel

Well I wasn’t aware of this. Thank you for providing sources this time instead of telling others to back up your claims for you (although in this instance I too am guilty of this and probably should’ve iterated that, to my knowledge, I was not aware of Trump using the chants to step out of the Iran deal).

However this does not address my entire argument, only a part of it and thus it continues to stand firm on the soil which it has planted itself.