[danholo]

I don't recall saying Israel is evil but do complain about it's viciousness towards the natives in Palestine; it's brutal military occupation that includes daily violence and humiliation, settler-colonialism and it's systematic racism/apartheid.

Describing 'evil' things doesn't mean that you don't think it is. "brutal military occupation, daily violence and humiliation" seem pretty evil to me. But, like I said, just slogans and yelling. No capability to examine that this viciousness doesn't occur in a vacuum nor is it because of some "evil tendencies" that you apply to Israelis.

Lots of people care about Palestinians. That's why they're always in the news and all over social media. BDS is a gift that keeps on giving. You mad, but you have to be to come to the defence of a racist and violent state, like Israel.

If people really cared about the Palestinians, they'd actually do something instead of virtue signaling.

Nope, there is no both are at fault. zionist ethnic cleansing and dispossession of Palestinian homes and land is what caused this so-called conflict, and Israel maintains its incremental genocide of the Palestinian people to this day, along with stealing what was meant to be a Palestinian state.

You really are the greatest of slogan machines. Please explain how this happened and what absolves Palestinians and their Arabs brethren from their genocidal intentions against Jews who are returning to their homeland? It takes two to tango. The Palestinian absolved any rights to the land when they decided that ousting the other local population from their midst was the best option.

What caused this conflict was intransigence, conflicting interests, failing empires and rising nationalism around the world. I mean, simplyfying this issue into goodies vs. baddies is certainly a way to look at it but in no way educated or wise.

"nope, nope, nope". Like I said, goodies vs. baddies - like an 80's hollywood movie.

The IDF are worthy of dehumanization and as Oxy once said, they are (also) retarded...but I don't hate all Israelis or anything like that, ITT there are posts by me of leftist Israelis protesting the most recent Gaza massacre (the OP). I have Israeli frands in earl too.

Yes, you dehumanize people based on the institution. Why are people worthy of dehumanization? We are all people, we make mistakes. We are not perfect. Why do Israeli soldiers deserve dehumanization but Palestinian rioters and murderers are just misunderstood and oppressed?

Sounds bonkers.

The simple facts are that Israelis are the occupiers and oppressors in this conflict, controlling and killing regularly an entire people. Yes, Israelis are the bad guys for doing this and being okay with this and Israel is increasingly diving towards pariah state status around the world, and nothing is going to change that, it is only going to increase because Israel continues very casually, its violence and killing of Palestinians and this thread is about Israeli snipers murdering over 100 Palestinians from a distance, maybe you could comment on that instead of living in fantasy land.

Simple facts for a simple mind. You frame this in such a naive way where the "occupier and oppressed" are absolved of any single responsibility applied to a decent and civilized society.

Let's frame this differently: Every time a Palestinian gets shot, it's their fault. It actually is. They know when the IDF won't and when they will shoot. They completely know the rules of engagement of the IDF. Actually, knowing that the Palestinians deserve all the oppression and occupation they have received. Every single Palestinian that died on the 14th of May this year deserved to die. They placed themselves in a situation where death is a possibility and provoked a professional army to shoot with threats and actual attempts to breach the border to MASSACRE innocent people, Israelis 200 meters across the border. Every single shot fired that day by the IDF was completely legitimate defense against a antisemitic murderous riot.

This is also true: Nobody in their right mind wants to kill anyone, especially some conscripted soldier, but sometimes you have no choice. Israelis have no choice. Any person in their right mind would shoot at the Palestinians who were rioting that day.

But hey, when you only choose to look at the actions of one side, yep, that's where the problems arise -> dehumanization -> acceptable deaths.

zionist tears are so delicious

I know. We are the only one's who shed a tear for our enemies and their stupidity. It is important to respect the enemy.

and lol also at complaining about my posts after the whinefest you posted.

I'm just the mirror you refuse to look into.

Just so you and others here who try to get me to shut up know, I'm never going to stop posting about Palestine until she is free. Deal with it and grow up yerself. And next time you want to discuss me, maybe try quoting the thing I posted that caused your triggering.

1. I'm not trying to shut you up
2. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you are. (Post all you want. The internet is free.)
3. The Palestinian cause is a worthy cause but their supporters make it look like a bunch of whiny brats.

This equation won't make your cause receive any support by people like me. I mean, I'm a total "ally" but not with people who can't articulate a correct argument.

Maybe I'm just disappointed that while I would enjoy a good conversation, all you are is a twitter bot and slogan machine.

Back on the actual topic because jeez even I get tired of talking about myself ....so about that propaganda:

"Back on the actual topic" while again it's just a thread about you and getting attention.

This is what I was saying earlier - you like to be a meme posting machine but there is no substance in your posts. If I want to debate on twitter with I can go there.

Now, let's get back on topic.

The IDF used exemplary tactical prowess to stop a murderous force from breaching a border fence while also minimizing civilian casualties to the best of its abilities. Kudos to the snipers who managed to do their job in such difficult conditions - thousands of protesters among them actually armed and dangerous inviduals - constanst smoke screens to disrupt vision. Amazing feat. It's difficult to describe what sort of chaotic event a protest like this is, so in that case it was handled quite well. 60/30,000 or what was the number? People like to yell massacre but even that statistic alone counters that argument because

massacre is defined as
"an indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of many people."

50/60 (or so) were legitimate targets as they were recognized as hostiles quite clearly. From a human point of view, such a statistic is impressive and extremely humane of the IDF. If it was up to skinster, she'd probably just mow everyone down because that is the only warfare she might be aware of?

On the other hand, Israel really needs to address this issue somehow. Unfortunately it doesn't seem there is much to be done when Hamas is in charge. I guess a more pragmatic approach would be the wiser one in the end although it empowers Hamas. Hamas might not annoy the worst types, but it's the equivalent of a Palestinian Nazi party and should get no sympathy or support.

[skinster]

Describing 'evil' things doesn't mean that you don't think it is. "brutal military occupation, daily violence and humiliation" seem pretty evil to me. But, like I said, just slogans and yelling. No capability to examine that this viciousness doesn't occur in a vacuum nor is it because of some "evil tendencies" that you apply to Israelis.

If you consider a brutal military occupation and the daily violence and humiliation that Palestinians suffer under the Israeli boot to be evil, that's up to you, use whatever language that makes your panties wet. You're likely not alone too. I'm sure those suffering this military occupation consider it the same. I'm sure if I suffered it I'd want to knock the heads of the occupying forces that don't allow me my rights or freedom of movement or clean water or electricity to the ability to visit other members of my family in other parts of Palestine, etc. It's not a slogan to call reality what it is. If you are suggesting there is no brutal military occupation taking place, go ahead and prove it. Otherwise you're just whining about me using the correct language to describe a thing that is a reality.

If people really cared about the Palestinians, they'd actually do something instead of virtue signaling.

People do care about the Palestinians. Have you seen the BDS thread lately? Even Israelis are refusing to go into Israel to collect awards that try to butter up the racist state's shitty image. Politicians in the West are beginning to call Israel out and implement laws that support Palestinians. I've posted these things already on this board but can re-post if you're pretending you're interested in actual action, just ask.

Maybe you'd like to take a look at some of the Israeli peace groups within the country that oppose the occupation and support BDS? Those who refuse to serve in the army because of Israel's crimes? I mean, there are plenty doing things all the time. Just because you are pretending it's not enough, nobody gives a fuck...feel free to have that opinion but if your point here is to prove it, you've failed at that so far.

You really are the greatest of slogan machines. Please explain how this happened and what absolves Palestinians and their Arabs brethren from their genocidal intentions against Jews who are returning to their homeland? It takes two to tango. The Palestinian absolved any rights to the land when they decided that ousting the other local population from their midst was the best option.

It happened about 7 decades ago when the British empire gave the go-ahead for European zionists to invade and ethnically-cleanse Palestinians from their homes and land. 1948 is the year Israel was created as a state on top of Palestine. The "Jews" were not returning to their homeland because the Bible is not a historical document. It was the Palestinians who were ethnically-cleansed, not the Jews, wtf are you talking about? 750,000 Palestinians were initially driven out of their homes and land because of zionist ethnic cleansing and dispossession. In 1967, 250K were pushed into Gaza where they and their descendants have been living as refugees for the last 50 or so years.

This is a clear case of European colonialism and settler-colonialism so spare me the religious crap because zionism itself ran as a secular ideology initially and a lot of the orthodox in the Jewish crowd don't even support the apartheid state.

What caused this conflict was intransigence, conflicting interests, failing empires and rising nationalism around the world. I mean, simplyfying this issue into goodies vs. baddies is certainly a way to look at it but in no way educated or wise.

Source?

Yes, you dehumanize people based on the institution. Why are people worthy of dehumanization? We are all people, we make mistakes. We are not perfect. Why do Israeli soldiers deserve dehumanization but Palestinian rioters and murderers are just misunderstood and oppressed?

I'm supposed to give a shit about racist killers and occupiers like the IDF?

Simple facts for a simple mind. You frame this in such a naive way where the "occupier and oppressed" are absolved of any single responsibility applied to a decent and civilized society.

It's not naive to describe the Palestinians as the oppressed in this situation where Israel holds all the power and that which the PA hold as sub-contractor for the occupation is also something that oppresses the Palestinians. The Palestinians are still occupied and controlled in Gaza and have no rights or few dependent where they were. And oh look this just came out from the only democracy in the middle east: The Knesset officially declares that Israeli democracy is for Jews only

Let's frame this differently: Every time a Palestinian gets shot, it's their fault. It actually is. They know when the IDF won't and when they will shoot. They completely know the rules of engagement of the IDF. Actually, knowing that the Palestinians deserve all the oppression and occupation they have received. Every single Palestinian that died on the 14th of May this year deserved to die. They placed themselves in a situation where death is a possibility and provoked a professional army to shoot with threats and actual attempts to breach the border to MASSACRE innocent people, Israelis 200 meters across the border. Every single shot fired that day by the IDF was completely legitimate defense against a antisemitic murderous riot.

So you do support the massacre of unarmed prisoners in concentration-camp Gaza. That's a really long way to say that but it was obvious anyway when you came to defence of the murderers of the OP.

This is also true: Nobody in their right mind wants to kill anyone, especially some conscripted soldier, but sometimes you have no choice. Israelis have no choice. Any person in their right mind would shoot at the Palestinians who were rioting that day.

Yes the IDF snipers from hundreds of metres away from the prison fence of Gaza had no choice but to shoot the uarmed protesters demonstrating for their freedom (rights you and I enjoy). Only a fucking idiot would believe that.

I know. We are the only one's who shed a tear for our enemies and their stupidity. It is important to respect the enemy.

No you don't, you don't care about the Palestinians, you only care that they make Israeli genocide look bad...and anyway it's not they who are the "enemy", you are, since you stole their land and homes and decided to cage them up after.

I'm just the mirror you refuse to look into.

All you're doing is whining about me talking about the IDF murderers in a perfectly reasonable way, since they are murderers and the same responsible for the most recent massacre on Gaza.

1. I'm not trying to shut you up
2. I'm just pointing out how ridiculous you are. (Post all you want. The internet is free.)
3. The Palestinian cause is a worthy cause but their supporters make it look like a bunch of whiny brats.

Butthurt.

This equation won't make your cause receive any support by people like me. I mean, I'm a total "ally" but not with people who can't articulate a correct argument.

If you think I'm here because of zionists, I am laughing my ass off. I hate racists so why would I care for zionists?

Maybe I'm just disappointed that while I would enjoy a good conversation, all you are is a twitter bot and slogan machine.

"Back on the actual topic" while again it's just a thread about you and getting attention.

Well, you could stop giving it to me.

[danholo]

Never. I have a twisted perverted relationship towards you.

But finally, you actually gave some arguments. Good for you!

edit: I read them through and it was just full of hate and slogans. Also, a clear denial of Jews and their heritage, and even trying to use an appeal to authority argument

Zionism is against religious notions on some levels, but the vast majority of Jewish religious authority figures disagree with some of the most traditional of ultra-Orthodox that you like to cite for yourselves. These ultra-Orthodox don't care about nationalism or anything to do with the modern world AT ALL. They certainly don't care about your lifestyle or anything you represent, so why use them as a battering ram?

This is a clear case of European colonialism and settler-colonialism so spare me the religious crap because zionism itself ran as a secular ideology initially and a lot of the orthodox in the Jewish crowd don't even support the apartheid state.

This is no clear "case". For being European colonialism, what European power funded and supported Jewish immigration to Israel? No one. The British Empire did facilitate it to some degree, by recognizing the right of Jews to their homeland in Palestine, but also stifled it quite stringently. Jews themselves funded and built Israel, and asked for help from outside powers while getting very little. Most of the Zionists efforts' were quite independent and self-sufficient. This is Jewish colonialism of the ancient Jewish homeland. Not European, although it originated in Europe but the desire to return to Israel has existed with Jews for millennia. Why deny this history? Does it make you feel good?

"The clearest" I know how to frame it as is a loosely unified and dispersed people, who had suffered persecution for centuries, decided to take fate into their own hands. Unfortunately there were people in that land who saw the Jews as a threat, yes. No denial there. But they failed, and you continue to berate the Jews for defending their own communities and property from racist, power hungry Arab states. Jews had every right to build a state there. Your fears of dispossession and loss might have been a great reason to start a war, but when that's the only thing that this war got your, maybe it should be time to consider other methods to "free" Palestine?




I completely agree that the current trend is settler-colonialism, whatever that means, because Israel is already a state and funding and supporting building communities outside of its own borders. I certainly have a problem with it, but if this were "European settler colonialism" Jews actually wouldn't be there are all and feel the need or see that Israel is theirs - just as the Palestinians do.

Here is a lesson for argumentation.
(a logical fallacy Argument from authority (Latin: argumentum ad verecundiam), also called the appeal to authority, is a common form of argument which leads to a logical fallacy. The appeal to authority relies on an argument of the form:

A is an authority on a particular topic
A says something about that topic
A is probably correct)

It is odd that, while you are not even religious, you would still use the religious arguments of very insulated and intolerant communities about what people in the current world are doing. It's a non-argument.

Maybe you should take a Jewish history course? You live in New York? I'm sure there is something available, and I think it would do you good. You constantly paint Israelis as racist child killers so maybe it would do you good to actually meet these people, learn their history and see that they are no different than you or me. They are not racist killers. They are doing their job, well. If they weren't, they'd be much more of your beloved "prisoners" dead. It would be much easier to just massacre 30,000 people with a bomb than pick out hostiles through a crowd like that. For being such racist child killers, why go to such lengths to make self-defense difficult?

Why am I giving you anti-racism lessons?

So you do support the massacre of unarmed prisoners in concentration-camp Gaza. That's a really long way to say that but it was obvious anyway when you came to defence of the murderers of the OP.

Prisoners. Concentration camp. Soldiers are not murderers - they have a job to do and it is to kill and stop the enemy from posing any harm or threat to you or the one's who you are supposed to protect. Yes, PALESTINIAN protesters placed themselves legitimate targets and KILLING them is the most noble thing a person can do in that situation, unfortunately. It is not an easy burden to have to pull the trigger - it is extremely jarring on the soul and psyche. Some people just even take the sorrow to denial, as I witnessed from that appalling cheering video.

Look, do you even notice how far into your own ideology you've fallen into while calling Gaza a "prison"? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you just make arguments based on feelings? Using big words is nice and all but not really conducive to reality, sorry.

An acquaintance posted this on their FB wall


Ah, freeing Palestine by burning it to a crisp. The nature is happy. Everyone is happy. The Palestinian Gods of Death rejoice at the sacrifice. I guess they were Zionist animals and plants anyway. Of course this is smart warfare, trying to destroy economy and livelihoods. Good for them!

[Rich]

[skinster]

Israel continues its attacks on Gaza, this happened on Eid, yesterday.

edit: I read them through and it was just full of hate and slogans.

All your posts are full of hate and slogans hate and slogans hate and slogans. Anyone can write this shit.

Also, a clear denial of Jews and their heritage, and even trying to use an appeal to authority argument

Didn't I tell you to quote me when you're crying about something? Because here I don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Zionism is against religious notions on some levels, but the vast majority of Jewish religious authority figures disagree with some of the most traditional of ultra-Orthodox that you like to cite for yourselves. These ultra-Orthodox don't care about nationalism or anything to do with the modern world AT ALL. They certainly don't care about your lifestyle or anything you represent, so why use them as a battering ram?

A bunch of off-topic shit I care nowt for.

This is no clear "case". For being European colonialism, what European power funded and supported Jewish immigration to Israel? No one. The British Empire did facilitate it to some degree, by recognizing the right of Jews to their homeland in Palestine, but also stifled it quite stringently. Jews themselves funded and built Israel, and asked for help from outside powers while getting very little. Most of the Zionists efforts' were quite independent and self-sufficient. This is Jewish colonialism of the ancient Jewish homeland. Not European, although it originated in Europe but the desire to return to Israel has existed with Jews for millennia. Why deny this history? Does it make you feel good?

More off-topic shit but this is typical from zionists since it's hard to really say hey I support racism, theft, apartheid, dispossession, colonialism and settler-colonialism. Jews have no right to Palestine, the Bible proves nothing.

A reminder it is in the Jewish commandments not to kill and not to steal.

"The clearest" I know how to frame it as is a loosely unified and dispersed people, who had suffered persecution for centuries, decided to take fate into their own hands. Unfortunately there were people in that land who saw the Jews as a threat, yes. No denial there. But they failed, and you continue to berate the Jews for defending their own communities and property from racist, power hungry Arab states. Jews had every right to build a state there. Your fears of dispossession and loss might have been a great reason to start a war, but when that's the only thing that this war got your, maybe it should be time to consider other methods to "free" Palestine?

BDS is a peaceful movement that aligns with international law. It is the gift that keeps on giving. I can't wait til it gets into sanctions mode. We're not there yet, but we will be, since Israel continues its vicious oppression of the natives of Palestine. We don't need advice from zionists on this, but thanks for trying.

I completely agree that the current trend is settler-colonialism, whatever that means, because Israel is already a state and funding and supporting building communities outside of its own borders. I certainly have a problem with it, but if this were "European settler colonialism" Jews actually wouldn't be there are all and feel the need or see that Israel is theirs - just as the Palestinians do.

Settler-colonialism is what's happening in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, these two areas that international law and nearly all states and world bodies consider it as part of a future Palestinian state. Unfortunately that can't be a Palestinian state when Israel gets mentalist Jews from anywhere in the world to settle in the land, the land that is meant for Palestinians but is just more of Palestine being stolen and settled upon, today, in the 21st century. It is of course illegal, all the settlements are illegal and it is also a clear sign that there can never be a two-state solution, since Israel refuses to allow for a Palestinian state. This is why people like me support the one-state solution, where all people in the land live together equally, where there is no supremacism like there currently is, with only Jews allowed to live freely while the natives are forced through checkpoints and live under a military occupation. It is currently European, Russian and American settler-colonialism, mainly. With 3 quarters of a million illegal settlers living on Palestine's West Bank.

Here is a lesson for argumentation.
(a logical fallacy Argument from authority (Latin: argumentum ad verecundiam), also called the appeal to authority, is a common form of argument which leads to a logical fallacy. The appeal to authority relies on an argument of the form:

A is an authority on a particular topic
A says something about that topic
A is probably correct)

Let me know when you're ready to make an argument with some evidence to back up this rambling that doth occur. It's cute you seem to have a high opinion about yourself but also not so surprising since zionists are often arrogant, but they have to be, to be able to be perfectly okay with stealing land and homes from people and killing them regularly without batting any eyelids.

It is odd that, while you are not even religious, you would still use the religious arguments of very insulated and intolerant communities about what people in the current world are doing. It's a non-argument.

Again I have no idea what you're talking about. Quote me from now on like I quote you, or I'll ignore you from now on because you are getting ever so boring and while you're obsessed with me, it's not interesting.

Maybe you should take a Jewish history course? You live in New York? I'm sure there is something available, and I think it would do you good. You constantly paint Israelis as racist child killers so maybe it would do you good to actually meet these people, learn their history and see that they are no different than you or me. They are not racist killers. They are doing their job, well. If they weren't, they'd be much more of your beloved "prisoners" dead. It would be much easier to just massacre 30,000 people with a bomb than pick out hostiles through a crowd like that. For being such racist child killers, why go to such lengths to make self-defense difficult?

The IDF are racist killers and child killers too now that you mention it, since it's all documented too. This thread is about the IDF massacre of over 100 Palestinian prisoners who were demonstrating for their right to freedom, and the victims includes children. How funny it is when zionists say stuff like we could've killed 30,000, how kind we are for only killing over hundred and shooting/injuring thousands more....we are so lovely!

Why am I giving you anti-racism lessons?

I don't know, it's odd, since I am in the anti-racist crowd and zionists such as yourself are racist, since zionist as an ideology is racist/supremacist.

Prisoners. Concentration camp.

I don't know what's funny about concentration camps. Did you find Auschwitz amusing too?

Gaza is a concentration camp, and it’s an American delusion not to recognize that

Listen to this wonderful Israeli talk about Gaza being a concentration camp:

Even rightwing loons are calling Gaza what it is:
here and
here.

Soldiers are not murderers - they have a job to do and it is to kill and stop the enemy from posing any harm or threat to you or the one's who you are supposed to protect.

Soldiers are trained killers.

Yes, PALESTINIAN protesters placed themselves legitimate targets and KILLING them is the most noble thing a person can do in that situation, unfortunately. It is not an easy burden to have to pull the trigger - it is extremely jarring on the soul and psyche. Some people just even take the sorrow to denial, as I witnessed from that appalling cheering video.

Lol at your apologism. The killers of this story were snipers who knew exactly where they were shooting. One of the journalists killed in this massacre was shot through the side of his journalist vest, which could've protected him from bullets if he was shot in the back and the front, but the IDF shot him in the side. The IDF released a statement saying they knew where every bullet was going. After the killing of the medic they removed the statement since even they realized that it might not look so great boasting about obvious murder. None of the IDF snipers who shot Palestinians from 100s of metres away on the other side of Gaza's prison walls were under no threat from the Palestinians who they shot to death and injury.

Look, do you even notice how far into your own ideology you've fallen into while calling Gaza a "prison"? How do you expect anyone to take you seriously when you just make arguments based on feelings? Using big words is nice and all but not really conducive to reality, sorry.

I've posted a bunch about how Gaza is a prison. Prove it isn't if that's what you're attempting to do.

[Zionist Nationalist]

[Zag Edit: Rule 2]

The reason why Israel attacked Gaza is because they continue to launch explosive balloons and incendiary kites.

[skinster]

Balloons and kites vs one of the most powerful armies with fighter jets, tanks, tons of guns, etc.

How unfair!

[Zionist Nationalist]

No country in the world would stand by while its territory is being burned down
I think the response is way too soft this kind of shit cant be tolerated

[Suntzu]

Balloons and kites vs one of the most powerful armies with fighter jets, tanks, tons of guns, etc.

How unfair!

They misunderstand the mission of armies. The mission of the army is not to fight the enemy, it is to kill the enemy.

[Oxymandias]

@Suntzu

I think you need to re-read your Clausewitz. War is politics by other means, and the goal of politics is more varied than merely "kill the enemy". Of course a mere trooper such as yourself won't understand the complexities of military strategy. The only thing you're trained to do is to go to point A and B, kill a couple of guys, and then go to homebase. You will never understand why you are doing the things because you aren't supposed to, you're a pawn.

For a country which espouses how it utilizes Auftragstaktik, the American military is very centralized. If it's soldiers are going out of it thinking that the goal of war is to kill the enemy like it's some cheesy action movie, then I doubt they would practice any critical thinking or free will during combat.

[noir]

BREAKING: British FM Boris Johnson just announced at the UN Human Rights Council that unless they get rid of their special agenda item targeting Israel alone in every session—a treatment he called “damaging to the cause of peace”—the UK “shall move next year to vote against all resolutions” introduced under that label.

More on Britain's stiffening spine: https://www.unwatch.org/britains-stiffe ... l-bigotry/

[Zamuel]

BREAKING: British FM Boris Johnson just announced at the UN Human Rights Council that unless they get rid of their special agenda item targeting Israel alone in every session—a treatment he called “damaging to the cause of peace”—the UK “shall move next year to vote against all resolutions” introduced under that label.

Excellent, hopefully France will soon echo this decision, then ? who knows ?

Zam

[noir]

France brought this Islamophilia to the heart of Europe (in the late 60's). They will not change their policy easily. The world problem is the free hand the Arab Islamic world has in the international bodies to spread their propaganda. Let's talk about Pakistani occupation of Baluchistan instead.

[danholo]

BREAKING: British FM Boris Johnson just announced at the UN Human Rights Council that unless they get rid of their special agenda item targeting Israel alone in every session—a treatment he called “damaging to the cause of peace”—the UK “shall move next year to vote against all resolutions” introduced under that label.

More on Britain's stiffening spine: https://www.unwatch.org/britains-stiffe ... l-bigotry/

Finally some sanity in that den of parrots.

<3

Yeah, I'm here to listen. Let it out.

Here is also something you might want to check out. It could improve your argumentation game considerably

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialectic

Soldiers are trained killers.

Well, that pretty much sums up the entire issue here and why nobody really has done anything after what happened a few weeks ago: the world, honestly, does not give a shit - I think every person should know that a military will shoot at anyone attempting to breach a border with hostile intent? Claiming that you will overrun 'the border' and massacre hordes of civilians also doesn't raise much sympathy from a balanced and rational person.

What a nice guy!

Israeli soldiers are taught to do their job with exceptional skill even while having to avoid any unnecessary civilian casualties on the enemies' side. Israelis take more care to save Palestinian lives than Palestinians themselves, which is just absurd. Every single innocent death on that day is the sole responsibility of those individuals who let and even encouraged dozens of young fools to perform an action that would most likely just get them killed. This disrespect for human life is just not funny and, frankly, something like that cannot be blamed on the "oppressor" forever. The Palestinians NEED the Israelis to survive. Israel needs the Palestinians for nothing, honestly, although the Israeli economy has benefited greatly both from skilled and non-skilled Palestinian labor, and possibly even abused this to some extent.

Bottom line is, relating to this particular incident, when a few terrorists get killed doing stupid violent shit, that's all that can be expected and this is a good thing. Nobody wants murderous and involuntarily celibate young crazed teenagers or 20-year olds running around carving up children and elderly. That must've made you happy, then?

The world might agree with the actions of Israel entirely but honestly, they have actually something to offer the world to better ourselves, while the Palestinians have time and again proven that they are collectively incapable of anything constructive - and nobody can take care of an adult infant forever, not even their brothers. :/

I think this would be more beneficial to this board to counter the victimization masturbation going on here.


[youtube]J4QYTUYWlcw[/youtube]

More examples of peaceful protests:

Khaybar Khaybar Ya Yahood!

Yes, yes! What a great and heroic cause! It must be the lack of clean water and electricity. Let's give them more and they'll just stop!

[noir]

Palestinian rep just gave speech @UN_HRC on "right to participate in peaceful protests" days after their riot police crushed huge protest in Ramallah, beating dozens of protesters including young women, arresting wounded from the hospital, smashing phones & journalist cameras.

Arab Spring in Palestine (West Bank)

Journalists Beaten, Cameras Destroyed: Palestinian Police Break Up anti-Abbas Protest in Ramallah
Dozens beaten and arrested, including foreign journalists, in breakup of demonstration against Abbas's economic sanctions on Gaza

https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-new ... -1.6175290

Open Air Prison

Abbas aide slams reported US plan to raise funds for Gaza
Top PA official says Trump administration efforts aim to further separate Palestinians in West Bank from those in Hamas-run enclave

18 June 2018, 10:13 pm

A senior Palestinian official on Monday condemned reported US plans to secure Gulf funding for major energy and economic projects aimed at improving the humanitarian situation in the impoverished Gaza Strip.

Nabil Abu Rudeineh, an aide to Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas, alleged Monday that such efforts are designed to further divide Palestinians in the PA-run West Bank from those living in the Gaza Strip, run by the Islamist terrorist organization Hamas.

“The Palestinian leadership warns the countries of the region against cooperating with a move whose goal is to perpetuate the separation between Gaza and the West Bank and lead to concessions on Jerusalem and the holy sites,” the statement said according to reports.

Earlier on Monday, the Haaretz daily reported that US officials are in talks to raise over $500 million from Gulf states to fund the programs, as a prelude to revealing President Donald Trump’s plan for resolving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

According to the report, the funds would be used to develop an industrial area in the northern Sinai, which abuts Gaza, including a power station and factories to serve the residents of the Palestinian enclave.

UN officials have warned that Gaza is on the cusp of a humanitarian disaster and have placed some of the blame on efforts by PA President Mahmoud Abbas to squeeze rival Hamas, including withholding salaries from Gazan civil servants and crimping the flow of electricity and medical supplies into the Strip.

Washington hopes that improving the situation in Gaza, where electricity and drinking water supplies are meager, will help calm the security situation, which has seen several weeks of violent clashes between Israeli security forces and Palestinians in the Strip.


Nabil Abu Rudeineh, spokesman of PA President Mahmoud Abbas (Flash90)
The reported American fundraising efforts comes days before White House special adviser Jared Kushner and US peace envoy Jason Greenblatt are due to arrive in the region for peace talks. The Trump administration officials are expected to pitch the ideas to leaders in Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, and Israel, Haaretz said.

Sources told the daily that the majority of the proposals for Gaza revolve around establishing infrastructure in northern Sinai. In addition to the power plant, the US plans call for a seaport, factories to manufacture building supplies, a water desalination plant, and a project to construct a solar energy site near the Sinai city of el-Arish.

The projects are also expected to improve the security situation in northern Sinai, where the Egyptian army have been battling to suppress an Islamist terror campaign in the peninsula.

The report said there are two approaches being looked at — projects that can be quickly implemented and those that will take years to complete. Currently, the White House is reportedly focusing on funding for the more immediate projects, with the aim of improving the situation in Gaza “and to also achieve some progress on the ground before the peace plan presentation.”

Yoav Mordechai, who until recently served as the Defense Ministry’s Coordinator of Government Activities in the Territories, reportedly presented similar ideas in March at an international summit on Gaza, hosted at the White House.

Deteriorating living conditions in the Strip have been cited by security officials as a major factor fueling the violent clashes on Israel’s border, as well as a debilitating sense of desperation.

According to the report, solving Gaza’s energy crisis is the top priority.

Israel and Egypt both enforce a blockade of Gaza, which Israel says is necessary to prevent Hamas from smuggling weapons into Strip. Currently, goods arrive at Israeli ports, where they are screened and then brought to Gaza on hundreds of trucks a day.

The White House declined to comment on the plans, telling Haaretz only that “we don’t want to discuss specific details before talks are held on the matter.”

Although Kushner and Greenblatt are set to meet with regional leaders to iron out details of the Trump peace plan, they are not scheduled to hold talks with the Palestinians, who have refused to meet with US officials ever since Trump recognized Jerusalem as the capital of Israel in December and then moved the US embassy to the city last month.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/abbas-aid ... -for-gaza/

[Suntzu]

@Suntzu

I think you need to re-read your Clausewitz. War is politics by other means, and the goal of politics is more varied than merely "kill the enemy". Of course a mere trooper such as yourself won't understand the complexities of military strategy. The only thing you're trained to do is to go to point A and B, kill a couple of guys, and then go to homebase. You will never understand why you are doing the things because you aren't supposed to, you're a pawn.

For a country which espouses how it utilizes Auftragstaktik, the American military is very centralized. If it's soldiers are going out of it thinking that the goal of war is to kill the enemy like it's some cheesy action movie, then I doubt they would practice any critical thinking or free will during combat.

This is true. As a grunt my jobs was to kill folks and break things. I also wrote a book about the bigger picture. Either way, a soldier's jobs is not to fight you.

[Oxymandias]

@Suntzu

I also wrote a book about the bigger picture.

You cannot possibly write a book about the bigger picture if you were never a part of it. When you find yourself in control of thousands of lives whose destinies remain within your grasp, you will have a very different perception of war. You will find that, despite how repulsive the enemy may be, it is beneficial to restrain ones self as while the losses on the opposition would be great, the losses on your side will be ever more dearer.

Either way, a soldier's jobs is not to fight you.

A soldier's job is to clear any objective the higher ups tell you to. If that involves killing me, then so be it. You must not discard the possibility of killing civilians since you are a soldier and so it is your disposition to kill.

[Suntzu]

Although I was a grunt, I worked at the corp level and commanded a five man team. As a corp asset I got a view of the bigger picture.

[skinster]

More propaganda spamming to continue with the tone of the thread:

Says guy who uses the IDF as evidence for anything.

[noir]

Gaza is open air prison because of Egypt and the PLO (Palestinian Authority) want it to be. Ever since 2007, when Hamas won the election in Gaza, the Palestinian Authority (PLO/Fatah) in West Bank and Hamas in Gaza are two hostile entities. For Israel it's enemy entity that should be fenced off.

June 10, 2018 Clip No. 6628

Ramallah Protests: PA Sanctions against Hamas-Ruled Gaza Are a Crime; PA and Abbas Responsible for the Slow Death of Gaza

Mass demonstrations broke out on June 10 in Ramallah, in protest against the Palestinian Authority's handling of the situation in Gaza. Protesters demanded that the Palestinian Authority stop withholding salaries from employees in Gaza. The sanctions against Gaza are "a crime," said activist Omar Assaf. Another activist called to lift the sanctions off Gaza: "The PA and Mahmoud Abbas are responsible for the slow death in Gaza." The footage from the demonstrations aired on Al-Quds TV (Lebanon) on June 10.
Reporter: "There have been demands to refrain from calling the [PA measures against Gaza] 'sanctions' in the media, because these sanctions have been lifted."
Omar Assaf: "Why play it down? Why misguide [the people]? These sanctions are a crime, and they have been continuing not just from today, but for months against our families in the Gaza Strip. What do you call stopping the salaries? What do you call cutting salaries in half? What do you call non-existent electricity? What would you call all this? Measures? What measures? Who is being punished? Our people in Gaza are experiencing it personally. These sanctions are a crime that must be stopped."
Reporter: "In the middle of these bickerings, the people are the victims. We are talking about 135 people who have been martyred lately, in addition to a large number of victims as a result of these sanctions on Gaza."
Omar Assaf: "We are demanding to put an end to it because our people are paying the price. It is inconceivable that we debate whether to treat a wounded person, or to delay the treatment of someone who was wounded by the occupation. We cannot go on like this. Enough, enough, enough! All the people are united in their demand to lift the sanctions off Gaza. All those in charge, and first and foremost President Abbas, must listen to the voice of the people and lift these sanctions."
[…]
Reporter: "What message do you want to convey to the Palestinian Authority?"
Woman: "My message is: 'Lift the sanctions off Gaza.' It is shameful, unreasonable, and harmful to the national dignity that the occupation lays a siege on Gaza, shoots our people there and kills them, while the PA adds more sanctions like stopping salaries, and preventing basic humanitarian services like electricity, water, and medical treatment. Enough humiliation, enough oppression. Lift the sanctions off our people in Gaza. The PA and Mahmoud Abbas are responsible for the slow death in Gaza. A massacre is happening in Gaza by Palestinian hands and a Zionist siege."

https://www.memri.org/tv/ramallah-anti- ... transcript

Earlier this week there were protests in Ramallah, West Bank, against the PA sanctions on Hamas-ruled Gaza. Saif Bader was bitten by the PA forces. The same entity that use the human rights language for guilble international audience on behalf of Gazans who "protest peacefully". Unlike the jihadists in Gaza, this protest was really peaceful and civil.








Manipulating the Human Rights language for guilble international audience

A real peaceful protest in Gaza

Turkey, the champion of the Palestinian cause