[skinster]

Understanding zionism as racism by the brilliant Joseph Massad.

Now change Israeli Politicians to Palestinian politicians and tell me if thats not true

The PA suck too, obvs, esp now their work follows Israeli orders. Most Palestinians are aware of this, shame the Israelis aren't as enlightened about their leaders who don't care for them.

Israeli politicians nowadays have given up on trying to solve the conflict the last one who attempted negotiations was olmert but he was ousted because of corruptions

They never tried to solve them, except that one that got killed by some rightwing douche in your country. And thanks for confirming the corruption that your politicians are infamous for.

[Ter]

And thanks for confirming the corruption that your politicians are infamous for.

Your Arab friends are of course not corrupt to the core

The difference is that Israeli politicians who are proven to be corrupt go to jail, even if they were prime minister, like Olmert, or President like Katsav.

Whilst corrupt Arabs don't face any problems, they get streets named after them, lol

[colliric]

The difference is that Israeli politicians who are proven to be corrupt go to jail, even if they were prime minister, like Olmert, or President like Katsav.

Yeah, totally Netanyahu isn't corrupt...

[Ter]

Netanyahu will have his day in court and we will see.
In the meantime, just admit that Israel puts corrupt or misbehaving politicians in jail even if they were prime minister like Olmert or president like Katsav.

Whilst your dear friends the Arabs just keep stealing their people's money and the aid money and face no consequences whatsoever.

At least be intellectually honest, although probably that is too much to ask from you or the other "anti-Zionists"

[annatar1914]

Netanyahu will have his day in court and we will see.
In the meantime, just admit that Israel puts corrupt or misbehaving politicians in jail even if they were prime minister like Olmert or president like Katsav.

Whilst your dear friends the Arabs just keep stealing their people's money and the aid money and face no consequences whatsoever.

At least be intellectually honest, although probably that is too much to ask from you or the other "anti-Zionists"

''corruption'' is rife in the Middle East, especially when you consider that most countries there are tribes with flags-including Israel-and perhaps there is another mindset involved that does not see corruption in the Western sense as corruption.

As an aside, I am not an ''anti-zionist'' per se, because I believe in what is done is done. Nor do I have any particular prophetic or spiritual stake in the earthly fate of the Jewish people or their state one way or another. What I do expect is justice and freedom for the people that are there in the Holy Land that are not Jewish (although genetically many of them are, maybe even as much as or more than many ''jews''.

If Israelis think America and the West is so great, and American and Western support, why don't they transform the country into a true multi-ethnic multi-confessional nation, much as the United States itself?

[Hindsite]

If Israelis think America and the West is so great, and American and Western support, why don't they transform the country into a true multi-ethnic multi-confessional nation, much as the United States itself?

That is not the purpose of establishing the state of Israel, at least not at this time.

[annatar1914]

That is not the purpose of establishing the state of Israel, at least not at this time.

I know what you think Israel's purpose is in your thinking, to usher in the End Times and your being beamed up to escape regular suffering and death, gotcha.

But in the more sane world where regular everyday people live in these countries and have hopes and aspirations of their own for themselves and their children, many wonder why it cannot be so, to live all together in peace just like we do (more or less, in America), comparatively speaking.

But you can't see them as human, all you can see are your abstracted ideas and theories, and all these messy people standing in the way of what you think will be your personal paradise.

[Hindsite]

I know what you think Israel's purpose is in your thinking, to usher in the End Times and your being beamed up to escape regular suffering and death, gotcha.

But in the more sane world where regular everyday people live in these countries and have hopes and aspirations of their own for themselves and their children, many wonder why it cannot be so, to live all together in peace just like we do (more or less, in America), comparatively speaking.

But you can't see them as human, all you can see are your abstracted ideas and theories, and all these messy people standing in the way of what you think will be your personal paradise.

I have already bought my cemetery plot for my burial after death. So escaping regular suffering and death has nothing to do with it. However, I do believe there is support for the establishment of the state of Israel in the last days in the wording of the prophecies in the Holy Bible.
Praise the Lord.

[annatar1914]

I have already bought my cemetery plot for my burial after death. So escaping regular suffering and death has nothing to do with it.

What it means is that like many people, you don't follow through on the logic of your theories. If you believed them as absolute truth you might not buy that cemetery plot. I'm not saying this to be mean or trying to make fun or be flippant, either. It shows that there's room to talk.

However, I do believe there is support for the establishment of the state of Israel in the last days in the wording of the prophecies in the Holy Bible.

''Support''? or ''endorsement''? Those are not the same things. Besides, personally I am against the modern state as it presently exists, along with much of modernity, so I don't think of those verses as referring to the modern state of Israel anyway. That does not mean that I don't believe in free ethnic Jewish communities in the Holy Land and elsewhere, and I do believe that they will eventually convert to the true faith of Christ Jesus.

Point being, I do not think that we can shoehorn what is to happen in the future prophetically in with our modern assumptions. If God the Holy Spirit for example says that men in pre-modern arms and armor will invade the Holy Land in the future, ''Gog and Magog'', than I'm going to take that as ''future fact'' literally unless I have very good reason for believing otherwise.

[Ter]

As an aside, I am not an ''anti-zionist'' per se, because I believe in what is done is done.

You are not in my "anti-Zionist" list, I apologise if I gave that impression.
You are not of Pakistani-descent + leftist or half-Chinese + obsessive Catholic enough to be in that exquisite company.

[colliric]

You are not in my "anti-Zionist" list, I apologise if I gave that impression.
You are not of Pakistani-descent + leftist or half-Chinese + obsessive Catholic enough to be in that exquisite company.

If you really must know.... I'm also descended from Irish Ashenazi Jews(as well as Irish Catholics) going a way back as well. Lol, small possibility we have common Ancestors!

[annatar1914]

You are not in my "anti-Zionist" list, I apologise if I gave that impression.
You are not of Pakistani-descent + leftist or half-Chinese + obsessive Catholic enough to be in that exquisite company.

I have a rather idiosyncratic and nuanced view of these matters, to be sure, in which probably everybody will find fault, but such it is.

I honestly don't know how to think otherwise concerning the Middle East, as I've known people from pretty much every religion and ethnicity there, and I've tried to study the history there in a way most Americans would not bother with.

[skinster]

:lol: Your Arab friends are of course not corrupt to the core

Lol you're such a child with your debating....technique? But agreed, the Arab leaders in the region and within the PA should be up against the wall, because obviously the latter are merely contractors for the zionists and U.S. govt anyway, which is why Palestinians remain in the state that they are, either living under occupation and apartheid or in a concentration camp that gets bombed regularly.

One question though, why do you put anti-Zionist in quotation marks?

[Zionist Nationalist]

This is such a bullshit
during the 1950s the fedayeen were conducting raids regularly from Gaza into Israeli territory killing indiscriminately any civilians they stumble upon
this is what hapeen when you have no knowlage of history you begin to twist it and ignore the parts where it dosent fit your world view

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_fedayeen

[skinster]

[Zionist Nationalist]

lol you are just ignoring history and reality
and then you expect people to stand by your side when all you do is spread fake news and misinformation

another interesting source this is from the CIA 1971
https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom ... 0001-1.pdf

[colliric]

lol you are just ignoring history and reality
and then you expect people to stand by your side when all you do is spread fake news and misinformation.

Although your information is right that neither side is clean, Skinster is also right about Wikipedia being attacked by Zionists and other types of fundamentalist Jewish vandals. I've had firsthand experience having to clean up vicious vandalism by Jewish users(username gives away cultural background) on Religious articles in particular. The article on Jesus is basically locked out from being edited at all by obvious-Jewish editors due to constant vandalism. I've had to undo vandalism from Jewish users on almost every Religious article I'm watching.

[Zionist Nationalist]

its true that wikipedia is biased in alot of cases
for example the Russian and Ukrainian Wikipedia pages about the war in Ukraine are very different from each other
but the facts that I have presented are true.

[skinster]

I'm not even sure what you're arguing against. The tweet that triggered you from Jewish Israeli Miko Peled was about Hamas and when they were created and it is a fact that they weren't around from the beginning of the conflict that began after Zionist terrorism ethnically cleansed a lot of Palestine to build a country upon in the late 1940s. YES, there were freedom fighters of other stripes responding to the Zionist terrorism that was taking place but those orgs weren't called Hamas, Hamas is an org that came much later and was of course created by Israeli Zionists themselves in the late 1980s as a counter to secular freedom fighters.

[Zionist Nationalist]

"freedom fighers" that deliberately kill civilians ok....
now dont be surprised why I dont have any compassion for them

If you would present such views to the Israeli public not only you wouldn't convince anyone that your side is the right one you would strengthen the Zionist position