Suicide Rate Out of Control In Developed Nations. - Page 4 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14924019
On page 2 I suggested the cause is 'inequality' inside the nation. Not Rich or poor nations. Nobody liked that idea.
Here is my key source. A 17 minute TED talk.

How economic inequality harms societies
2,686,640 views • 16:54 min. • Subtitles (transcript in English, etc.) in 40 languages

https://www.ted.com/talks/richard_wilki ... n#t-987398

At the 2:59 mark he says,
"Now I'm going to show you what that does to our societies. We collected data on problems with social gradients, the kind of problems that are more common at the bottom of the social ladder. Internationally comparable data on life expectancy, on kids' maths and literacy scores, on infant mortality rates, homicide rates, proportion of the population in prison, teenage birthrates, levels of trust, obesity, mental illness -- which in standard diagnostic classification includes drug and alcohol addiction -- and social mobility. We put them all in one index. They're all weighted equally. Where a country is is a sort of average score on these things. And there, you see it [in the graph he shows] in relation to the measure of inequality [inside the nation between income levels] I've just shown you, which I shall use over and over again in the data. The more unequal countries are doing worse on all these kinds of social problems. It's an extraordinarily close correlation [looking at inside the nation]. But if you look at that same index of health and social problems in relation to GNP per capita [See the graph he shows comparing different nations], gross national income, there's nothing there, no correlation anymore."

At 4:11 mark he says,
"We were a little bit worried that people might think we'd been choosing problems to suit our argument and just manufactured this evidence, so we also did a paper in the British Medical Journal on the UNICEF index of child well-being. It has 40 different components put together by other people. It contains whether kids can talk to their parents, whether they have books at home, what immunization rates are like, whether there's bullying at school. Everything goes into it. Here it is [see the graph he shows] in relation to that same measure of inequality [within the same nation]. Kids do worse in the more unequal societies. Highly significant relationship. But once again, if you look at [on the graph he shows] that measure of child well-being, in relation to national income per person [comparing different nations], there's no relationship, no suggestion of a relationship."

Yes, he doesn't talk much about suicides. But, it is a small component of the index he does use. So, suicides are mixed in with alot of other negative social measures like infant mortality and high school dropout rates, etc.
I think the data would be the same if we just looked at suicides.
If the between nations data you-all are looking at shows this correlation then it would be even stronger if we looked at inside those nations. That is, the higher suicide rate as you go down the income ladder is so high that it effects the national per capita rate, pushing it up for all the richer [more developed] nations.
#14924041
@Steve_American , there is no correlation in the between-nations data. That's the point. The one correlation found so far is "children rarely commit suicide, while adults more often do, so there's a correlation between age and suicide rate".

It's possible that inequality inside a nation has a correlation. Why don't you try and find out, rather than just "thinking the data would be the same"? Perhaps that's why no one liked the idea the first time - you hadn't tried to show if there's any correlation?
#14924106
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:@Steve_American , there is no correlation in the between-nations data. That's the point. The one correlation found so far is "children rarely commit suicide, while adults more often do, so there's a correlation between age and suicide rate".

It's possible that inequality inside a nation has a correlation. Why don't you try and find out, rather than just "thinking the data would be the same"? Perhaps that's why no one liked the idea the first time - you hadn't tried to show if there's any correlation?

PC, I keep thinking that --- "There is nothing so powerful as an idea who's times has come."

I never was much good at term papers. Research is not my thing. I had hoped that you-all included at least one person with clear vision.

I bet you didn't invest 7 minutes to see the part I quoted to see the data for yourself.
#14924180
@Steve_American , since you pointed out "he doesn't talk much about suicides", no, I didn't spend 7 minutes watching something you said wasn't very useful. If it's "mixed in" or "a small component" of what he looked at, then it's quite possible that suicide rates are not affected by inequality. The man who is getting famous by talking about inequality appears not to have bothered separating the suicide figures; you can't be bothered; so why should I do your work for you? It's not that important to you if you can't be bothered, obviously.

"There is nothing so powerful as an idea who's times has come." What idea are you talking about? Is this on-topic?
#14924289
Prosthetic Conscience wrote:@Steve_American , since you pointed out "he doesn't talk much about suicides", no, I didn't spend 7 minutes watching something you said wasn't very useful. If it's "mixed in" or "a small component" of what he looked at, then it's quite possible that suicide rates are not affected by inequality. The man who is getting famous by talking about inequality appears not to have bothered separating the suicide figures; you can't be bothered; so why should I do your work for you? It's not that important to you if you can't be bothered, obviously.

"There is nothing so powerful as an idea who's times has come." What idea are you talking about? Is this on-topic?

So, you are not willing to invest 7 min. of your time but think nothing of demanding I spend 2 or 3 hours digging on the internet for proof.
To me this is a signal that you don't want to know the *truth*, whatever it is. You think you already know and will only by moved off that opinion with incontrovutable proof.
Very much like the supporters of Mainstream Economics.

Well, since you don't want to know, I am not going to waste much time for the proof that you would reject anyway.

So, I'll make a prediction and see if it is true. I predict that among the developed nations that those with high inequality also have a high suicide rate and those with low inequality will also have a low suicide rate. And the same goes for developing nations. If there is a trend in developing nations to have higher inequality than developing nations then that alone would give a small correlation between wealth and suicide. Now I will spend a few minuets to check it out.

Well, I have to say that I failed to see my prediction being true. The US and Portugal have the highest inequality but they are about #38 and #40 on the list of top 70 provided in the thread on page 2, while the scandinavian nations have the lowest inequality and they are half above #35 and half below #35. [#35 being the center of a list of 70.]

This doesn't make it false, not yet because my sample was too small at just 6 nattions.
#14924446
Steve_American wrote:So, you are not willing to invest 7 min. of your time but think nothing of demanding I spend 2 or 3 hours digging on the internet for proof.

Well, yes, because that's normal behaviour. You told us the video "doesn't talk much about suicides" and suicide is just "a small component of the index he does use", so those 7 minutes sounded like they wouldn't help at all. If you want to show something, then it's up to you. And to your credit, you've now tried it. So far, what you've found doesn't indicate there's a correlation between inequality and suicide, but thank you for checking.
#14924448
A quick look at the results for ‘suicide by income’ appears to be the usual assortment of picking a country or demographic to produce the preconceived view.
There did seem to be some basis for people living in wealthy neighborhoods they could not afford. This is not what we are usually referring to with ‘income inequality’, but is perhaps more enlightening.
This is not surprising to me since suicide is deciding life has no further purpose which can be the result of a huge variety of reasons. I don’t see the purpose of trying to correlate it to any one reason.
Even if you could prove a correlation with income inequality, what purpose would it serve?
#14924549
Although this thread was thrown together out of duct tape, spit, and a few loose buttons, the one good thing that could come out of it is that the 1% of Americans could all discover that suicide-for-rich-people is a trend.

We all know what brainless trend-followers we North Americans are. A trend like this one might be the only way forward for income equality.
#14924565
Suicide rate is connected to isolation, which is connected to social atomization, which is connected to how liberals are currently hostile to any kind of group identity capable of constituting an authority.

They do this because they are basically a transhumanist (millenarian) movement that will lose their ducking minds when they realize we won't be killed off by climate change or robots.
#14924570
Hong Wu wrote:that will lose their ducking minds when they realize we won't be killed off by climate change or robots.


:lol:

QatzelOk wrote:Although this thread was thrown together out of duct tape, spit, and a few loose buttons, the one good thing that could come out of it is that the 1% of Americans could all discover that suicide-for-rich-people is a trend.

We all know what brainless trend-followers we North Americans are. A trend like this one might be the only way forward for income equality.


What a fucked up thing to say.

I love how all these leftist humanitarians want to save the trees and butterflies but then propagate a belief that if you happen to break into certain tax bracket then all of a sudden you are no longer human and worthy of dignity.

Make under $87,900.00? Viva La REvolution!

Make $87,901.61?

Die you muthafuckin capitalist pig-dog bougie bastards! Hope you and your kids get cancer!

:eh:
#14924919
Victoribus Spolia wrote:What a fucked up thing to say.

I love how all these leftist humanitarians want to save the trees and butterflies but then propagate a belief that if you happen to break into certain tax bracket then all of a sudden you are no longer human and worthy of dignity.

Inequality has a way of stripping a large percentage of the population of its dignity and, eventually, of all its freedom and ability to sustain itself.

This is why the French killed virtually all their rich during the Revolution of 1789. The rich were parasitic and had become immune to the suffering of the majority.

Sadly, purging society of its parasitic greed-bags might be all that can save us. And if simply making them believe that Rich-Bitch-Suicide is trendy and cool is all it takes, I say go for it.

The generalized suicides of the extremely rich will reduce the general suicide rate by a huge percentage, so encouraging rich people to kill themselves is actually "pro-life."
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