[noir]

you have been corrected for posting zionist propaganda

But Arab propaganda is fine.

[noemon]

But Arab propaganda is fine.

People losing their houses is not propaganda noir, it is a fact on the ground. Israel crossing the UN green line is not propaganda either, it is a fact on the ground.

[skinster]

A very good point, does anybody take skinster seriously - ?

Does anybody take you seriously after you blatantly lied about the conclusion to an article on Syria that me and Heisenberg called you out on...for lying about?

Please do go ahead and quote me on what I lied about, and prove me wrong.

@noir you keep on trying to discredit the individuals expressing their arguments instead of the arguments being expressed. It's very lazy and proves that you cannot address the arguments and have given up completely.

This is because unhinged zionists like noir have only this, or accusations of antisemitism. They cry racism while supporting a systemically racist state, only dumb eejits eat up their shit, the rest of the world ("civi-cunts") are pro-Palestine.

[Zamuel]

Please do go ahead and quote me on what I lied about

? Sorry, don't remember any accusations, what did you lie about recently?

Zam

[danholo]

If your house was being bulldozed to the ground to make way for colonial settlers you would not be considering it a "fallacy" nor would you be praising the Trump administration as "honest and responsible" for supporting brazenly such colonial projects in this day and age.

Yes, if. Sadly, this really isn't the case and exaggerating is propaganda; and you've completely taken the bait. Aside, let's say the illegal Bedouin village in the WB, whose house is being bulldozed to make way for colonial settlers?

You do understand that these colonial settlers have settled on previously unsettled land? Why lie that somebody's house was bulldozed when no house was there?

That is a lie, and if only the story of one side is taken as fact, people will stop believing in you. That's why the UN fails.

@noir you keep on trying to discredit the individuals expressing their arguments instead of the arguments being expressed. It's very lazy and proves that you cannot address the arguments and have given up completely.

Just like skinster and you! What comes around, goes around.

[noir]

^ Wouldn't believe he will refer to Miko Peled as "scholar". Miko Peled gets his living pandering Islamist and anti semitic audiences. He just visited Iran. Norman Finkestein is neo Nazi buddy. These two are stars in hate propganda sites.

An Israeli Addresses Iranian Students and Revolutionary Guard Cadets

by Miko Peled

https://www.mintpressnews.com/israeli-a ... an/243290/

[skinster]

^ unsure why you refer to peace activists as nazis, or have a problem with them, when you support the neo version of them Israel.

danholo lying about illegal settlements being built on INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED PALESTINIAN TERRITORY.

This is why the settlements are considered a) illegal and b) a war crime. Even the US state dept, your sugar daddy, condemns them. Even the Israeli supreme court considers them temporary, given the fact they are illegal under IL. The entire world otherwise, considers that territory where the settlements are built as Palestinian territory, the settlements illegal and the construction of them as war crimes.

But it's us who are lying?

You'll only convince obvious ignorant people like Zam with this bs, most of us know what time it is.

Still, this is exactly why there isn't a two-state solution. Palestine is currently one state, where Jews are privileged and Palestinians are occupied and blockaded because Israel is a racist state. Good day.

[noemon]

Yes, if. Sadly, this really isn't the case and exaggerating is propaganda; and you've completely taken the bait. Aside, let's say the illegal Bedouin village in the WB, whose house is being bulldozed to make way for colonial settlers?

You do understand that these colonial settlers have settled on previously unsettled land? Why lie that somebody's house was bulldozed when no house was there? That is a lie, and if only the story of one side is taken as fact, people will stop believing in you. That's why the UN fails.

Someone must be totally unhinged to deny that Israel is bulldozing Palestinian houses to resettle colonists on occupied territory.

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_dem ... n_conflict

Just like skinster and you! What comes around, goes around.

What are you talking about? Your failure to address their arguments is noted and your silly ad-hom is noted as well. If you have a quote of mine using an ad-hom instead of an argument you are more than welcome to post it.

[noir]

[danholo]

Someone must be totally unhinged to deny that Israel is bulldozing Palestinian houses to resettle colonists on occupied territory.

Here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_dem ... n_conflict

Oh, house demolitions. I'm completely aware of those but you were saying that houses are being demolished so that settlers can colonize these areas. So far, I haven't heard this that would follow your narrative where people are condemning Israel for ... something that hasn't happened?

The Wikipedia article you posted doesn't deal with that at all, outside of some incredible claims made by Amnesty and other human rights organizations that have no clue what's going on in life, in general.

If you want to "unhinge" me, you could at least approach the issue from a more credible and less propagandist perspective.

What are you talking about?

Here you are telling me what I'm like: it's going into ad hom territory with the strawmen you created .

We should dissolve the EU because it forces Israel to label products from the occupied territories, we should dissolve the UNHRC because it criticises Israel for keeping Palestinians under a 6 decade occupation and refusing them citizenship rights. Not even North Korea, Iran and Venezuela do that. We should dissolve ourselves next because our presence is offensive.

Is there anything else we should dissolve danholo to make you feel more comfortable with your ongoing broad daylight ethnic-cleansing in the Palestinian territories?

[noemon]

OThe Wikipedia article you posted doesn't deal with that at all, outside of some incredible claims made by Amnesty and other human rights organizations that have no clue what's going on in life, in general.

"It doesn't deal with that at all" and when it does it's all "lies and conspiracy".

If you want to "unhinge" me, you could at least approach the issue from a more credible and less propagandist perspective.

Noone can unhinge you but your own self. God knows what kind of consolation it is you are asking for and what constitutes acceptable Israeli criticism for a zionist. You are clearly in total denial mode.

Here you are telling me what I'm like: it's going into ad hom territory with the strawmen you created .

There is not a single ad-hom in that paragraph. That is a regular response to your call for the UNHCR to be dissolved because you can't take the criticism for violating the UN and Geneva Conventions.

[danholo]

Noone can unhinge you but your own self. God knows what kind of consolation it is you are asking for and what constitutes acceptable Israeli criticism for a zionist. You are clearly in total denial mode.

Again strawman and ad hom. Can you prove the denial mode or are you going to retract your statement?

What constitutes acceptable criticism? Well thought out, non-emotion laden and fact based criticism, not UNHRC corruption and inane shit posting from twitter.

As far as criticism is concerned, I personally am not amused with the constant harassment of the Bedouin village that is being demolished. I can cirticize that policy without claiming that it's being done because of malice or ideas of supremacy. It is a ridiculous policy and should be stopped. It's useless.

When you give a good argument that supports your claim, I'll address your position. So far it seems you are just exaggerating this house demolition issue and giving the UNHRC a free pass with their childish fixation towards Israel. There are actual human rights violations being carried out daily and nobody says a peep. None of them are in Israel.

There is not a single ad-hom in that paragraph. That is a regular response to your call for the UNHCR to be dissolved because you can't take the criticism for violating the UN and Geneva Conventions.

I find a strawman argument an ad hom directly, when it's taken too far. You assume my position incorrectly and attack me for that: straw man. I find that insulting and disrespectful.

[noemon]

Again strawman and ad hom. Can you prove the denial mode or are you going to retract your statement?

This is clearly pointless but here we go again:

It doesn't deal with that at all" and when it does it's all "lies and conspiracy".

Your arguments here are "Amnesty International is bullshit, UN is bullshit, you and skinster are something. Israel does not demolish Palestinian homes to make way for Israeli settlements, no no, these are all lies, Israel only builds on empty land in a space vacuum".

Honestly what is that you are wanting to hear? That Israel is not occupying the Palestinian Occupied Territories and expanding its settlements there? That we are all haters? That we should dismantle the global human rights organisation because your feelings are hurt from being told the truth? Not only you want people to approve of your neocolonialism but you actually want more, you want them to suspend the entire global human rights infrastructure and make it alright for any country around the world to do what Israel does to Palestine. You want me to accept a world where Turkey for example would be ok to cross the UN Green Line in Cyprus and attack us without anyone saying anything.

When you give a good argument that supports your claim, I'll address your position. So far it seems you are just exaggerating this house demolition issue and giving the UNHRC a free pass with their childish fixation towards Israel. There are actual human rights violations being carried out daily and nobody says a peep. None of them are in Israel.

People do say a peep, I actually do and the UNHCR does as well, the reason there is a permanent agenda item, is for the reason already stated, permanent agenda item for a permanent occupation over the Green Line. It makes sense and is not some weird fixation as you assume.

I find a strawman argument an ad hom directly, when it's taken too far. You assume my position incorrectly and attack me for that: straw man. I find that insulting and disrespectful.

I am not taking your position far at all but exactly where it is. You called for the UNHCR to be dismantled, all the zionists in here call for the EU to be dismantled because it forces Israel to label products from the Occupied Territories. Anyone who approves of the UN and EU policy you call them antisemites. It is quite fair to tell you that next you will be asking for our own person-hoods to be dismantled. That is not taking anything "too far".

[danholo]

You really are reading too much into this. As I said, the UNHRC is a corrupt body who does not focus on human rights but on Israel, and as such should be 'dissolved' if it cannot deal with human rights abuses evenhandedly. That's all I said. I have my issues with Israel and you bring up completely off-topic issues I never even mentioned. This is called a straw man. Direct your anger at something real.

[noemon]

You really are reading too much into this. As I said, the UNHRC is a corrupt body who does not focus on human rights but on Israel, and as such should be 'dissolved' if it cannot deal with human rights abuses evenhandedly. That's all I said. I have my issues with Israel and you bring up completely off-topic issues I never even mentioned. This is called a straw man. Direct your anger at something real.

You might be surprised to hear this but I do not see it as corrupt, nor do I see the global human rights network as something to be abolished. The only people who wish such things are crazy North Korea dictators, African warlords and apparently Israelis/zionists. You have provided no actual reason that such is the case other than your feelings being hurt for being criticised because Israel is occupying foreign territory which it considers its own minus its native residents. Again you might be surprised to hear this but the UNHCR exists in order to criticise precisely those situations. This is not a reason to abolish it but a reason to support it just so it can carry on its mission including in areas that are other peoples interest such as Tibet, Africa, Cyprus and so on. That thing about "anger" I can only guess is projecting. Nothing of what I said is off-topic, I am sorry that reality bothers you.

[danholo]

I guess we'll have to disagree here, then. Fact is the US quit, and gave the reason, and as it is the UNHRC is completely ineffective as far as reality is concerned. They get nothing done, just moralize. Yet, the Israeli economy is booming. What are they trying to achieve?

Reality really doesn't bother me. I've been to Israel. It's a mess and Israel should be blame for the chaos as well.

I just don't feel that people sitting in an ivory tower aren't that attached to reality in turn. The members there who condemn have actually no political leverage as far as Israel's actions are concerned. So I'm certainly not the one who is lost here.

[noemon]

Fact is the US quit,

The US going full retard under Trump is not something to brag about as normal.

and as it is the UNHRC is completely ineffective as far as reality is concerned.

And that is mostly because of people like you mate not because of the UNHRC itself, when regular people fail to recognise the failings of the states they blindly support, that is a general issue not an issue with the UNHRC.

They get nothing done, just moralize. Yet, the Israeli economy is booming. What are they trying to achieve? Reality really doesn't bother me. I just don't feel that people sitting in an ivory tower are that attached to reality...

I take it you are projecting again about your own Ivory tower talking about having US support and a "booming economy"(zero relevance).

[danholo]

The US going full retard under Trump is not something to brag about as normal.

Straw man; nobody is bragging.

And that is mostly because of people like you mate not because of the UNHRC itself, when regular people fail to recognise the failings of the states they blindly support, that is a general issue not an issue with the UNHRC.

Fortunately I have certain principles and won't diverge from them. Israel's wrong is to continue building settlements, but accept that Israel can build settlements because Jews have a right to settle there but this is an arrogant policy.

I recognize Israel's failings - you fail to see that I don't, which is where your straw men come from. But we are talking about the uselessness and ineffectiveness of the UNHRC, this is a topic about THAT, and you are just proving my point.

I take it you are projecting again about your own Ivory tower talking about having US support and a "booming economy"(zero relevance).

It has plenty of relevance in this case, and let me explain why: I'm just saying how it is. In the real world, money talks, bullshit walks. As far as Israel is concerned, it's a functioning country whose people are content and happy, happier than most countries despite its situation, so it's doing something right. Most countries condemning Israel are failed countries with nothing to offer and I'm quite sure that they take out their own insecurities and incompetence on Israel. Of course this is just my opinion, but I wouldn't even be surprised if it was true. Having said that, human rights moralists like to think they have power to dictate how things should be done, but in effect it's just a money sink, and usually they are just corrupt themselves so their moralizing falls on deaf ears. Israel respects human rights to the extent where it needs to weigh the security of its own citizens with an enemy population.

The UNHRC has no power and any power it has is lost, because they don't It has very little effect on actual policy making. Seems like many are just cranky that nobody is listening to them - because nobody listens to a whiny teenager when what they got is what they deserved. Their moralizing falls on deaf ears, so if you feel that Israel is a country that should be forced to act in some way, why not build a coalition against it?

[noemon]

Straw man; nobody is bragging.

This is not a straw man, it is an argument you actually used. Bragging about having Trumps US support is not something that people would normally brag about.

I recognize Israel's failings - you fail to see that I don't, which is where your straw men come from. But we are talking about the uselessness and ineffectiveness of the UNHRC, this is a topic about THAT, and you are just proving my point.

This is the first time you said something about Israeli failings, if you recognise that Israel should not be colonising and settling the occupied territories, then you should not be taking issue with the UNHRC criticising Israel for exactly that.

I'm just saying how it is. In the real world, money talks, bullshit walks. As far as I see it, human rights moralists like to think they have power to dictate how things should be done, but in effect it's just a money sink, and usually they are just corrupt themselves so their moralizing falls on deaf ears. The UNHRC has no power and any power it has is lost, because they don't It has very little effect on actual policy making.

I'm sure that is exactly what Apartheid White South Africans thought as well. The fact is you do not support changing Israeli policy, you may recognise it because you have no other choice since not recognising would make you look totally weird but effectively your support it and that is why you take issue with the UNHRC. It keeps reminding both you and Israel that there is something wrong going down. The fact is that is exactly its role and it is doing that quite successfully otherwise we would not be having this conversation, the straw-men you use against it are funny, but criticising it for not having power it is not meant to have is quite ridiculous.

[skinster]

Congratulating danholo for pretending ethnic-cleansing in Palestine isn't happening and then admitting to how it is. Good progress.