[danholo]

I'm sure any group who was imprisoned for no other reason than their ethnicity/religion would resist such conditions. You've heard of the Warsaw Ghetto, right? It's comparable to Gaza.

Sure, you can compare. But could you list both the differences and similarities between Gaza and the Warsaw Ghetto?

[skinster]

Palestinians are the victims instead of Jews...and about 7/8 decades.

[danholo]

That's all you got?

Well, the main point is that the former is very much alive and the latter are all dead. The events which lead to both are not even remotely similar on a larger scale.




I think it's absolutely ignorant to compare the two, honestly. Just because there are some similarities, it would be important to also be aware of the differences. When that is the case, I don't think anyone could honestly say they are comparable.

So, what are the similarities and differences between the Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza, and the politics and conflict surrounding each historical event?

[skinster]

That's all you got?

Nope, there's a video in my penultimate post that shows photos showing the similarities between the Warsaw ghetto and the Gaza ghetto, if you dispute them, you need to give me more than your whiny opinion.

PLUS, what else I have got, is all that post that responded to all of your post directed at me, before it, at the end of the last page. It must be really difficult to miss but, here we are.

[danholo]

Nope, there's a video in my penultimate post that shows photos showing the similarities between the Warsaw ghetto and the Gaza ghetto, if you dispute them, you need to give me more than your whiny opinion.

This is just silly. If you seriously are going to compare the two, at least know what makes them similar and what makes them different. Watching a propaganda video that is trying to cherry pick to make a point is not very smart, skinster. You can do better.

PLUS, what else I have got, is all that post that responded to all of your post directed at me, before it, at the end of the last page. It must be really difficult to miss but, here we are.

I know you love me. It's an endless spiral of hate and wanting to be the victor.

"Let the Wookie win!"

Who is the Wookie?

[skinster]

I'll repost the post where I responded to your long-ass post. If you want to ignore it, I'll accept there are some things you just can't make arguments for and allow you to bow out.

Here goes again:

I don't think it has a "right" to Gaza either but it has a responsibility for the safety of its own citizens and national security, something some people in Gaza want to directly violate for probably good reasons, but with a horrible strategy.

It is quite correct that some people in Gaza want to violate the lives of Israelis, but why would that be? Is it because Israel has stolen lands and homes from over 70% of the population in Gaza? Or is it because Israel has placed them in what amounts to a concentration camp, where they have 2-4 hours of electricity today and their water is poisoned? Where they can't leave their imprisonment or see their family in other parts of Palestine that Israel also military occupies? Tell me, danholo, what is doing more damage to the security of Israelis?

The people of Gaza being imprisoned and oppressed otherwise is what causes Israel's insecurity. You can't imprison and occupy people and assume they will lay down and die, unless you're the type of pussy that would lay down and die if ever denied your rights. I would fight back.

I have understood from international law regarding occupation that Israel, as the occupying power, has responsibility over the well-being and security of Gazans.

This is correct. An occupier is legally responsible for the wellbeing of the people it occupies, something Israel has never done, since it kills Palestinians very regularly and imprisons them and such other else.

In the real world, however, it cannot control them, and ultimately Israel's primary responsibility is for the safety of its own citizens.

Israel has no right to control a people that are not within its borders, borders which Israel to date has yet to define or declare, but that's by the by.

Israel has a responsibility for this whole mess but regarding this instance with Gaza, I really can't point the blame at Israel completely.

That's because you're a tribal person who cares more about maintaining zionist oppression over the dignity and human rights of another people, based on their ethnicity/religion.

As to my 'excuse'. I don't have an excuse. I wasn't alive then. All 'excuses' and reasons can be found within a multitude of historical works written on the subject; The occupation of Gaza didn't happen in a vacuum but was an outcome of the Arab-Israeli conflict fueled by the Cold War in the background.

You don't have an excuse because the notion that Israel is occupying and blockading Gaza "because Hamas" is bullshit; an excuse to place blame on the victims rather than where it ought to be placed: on those doing the occupying and blockading (and incremental genocide)

As for Gaza, let son of an Israeli General, Miko Peled, explain the history to you:

If that's the conclusion that can be made, I find that quite stringent cherry picking from the mounds of information that comes from that place daily. Israel is probably the most reported place in the world. Gaza is a concentration camp? I'd say that's "fake news"; it's called fake news these days, your can also call it propaganda and misinformation.

I've posted links supporting my position before but I'll post it again. Israel is a concentration/prison camp:
David Cameron: Israeli blockade has turned Gaza Strip into a 'prison camp'

Lawrence Weschler: Gaza is a concentration camp

Blacklisted Academic Norman Finkelstein on Gaza, “the World’s Largest Concentration Camp”

Now it's your turn to prove that Gaza being a concentration camp is "fake news".

I don't think it describes the situation properly and diverts attention to the fact that Gaza does have its own influence in the area and is also an accessory in its own demise. You can call it a concentration camp, for sure, if that's ultimately what you want it to be. It doesn't correspond with reality, however.

What influence does Gaza have on itself? As you can see above, it's not just me who calls Gaza a concentration camp. I don't want it to be a concentration camp, I actually want it to NOT be a concentration camp, or prison camp, or however else you might want to describe it. I want Palestinians in Gaza, as well as in the West Bank and East Jerusalem, to live in freedom and dignity, with the same type of human rights you and I get to enjoy.

You on the other hand are here to speak on behalf of the government that denies Palestinians these rights, as well as deny their reality of the awful living conditions they suffer. I wonder what type of person can sleep at night, knowing they spend much time fighting for the violent non-right of a government to oppress and kill others. Perhaps you doing so is a cause for some of that anger you experience?

Anti-semites shouldn't get a time of day and should be called out on it. Hamas is it, and you should call them out with the same fierceness as towards Israel.

I agree, anti-semites shouldn't get a time of day, but you're arguing for the one group of anti-semites that are killing Palestinian semites. Hamas on the other hand are a resistance organization, who in recent years are clear about who their enemy is; they do not say Jews, but the zionist occupation. I can see why zionists love to ignore this. Trying to compare Hamas to Israel is a little bit silly, danholo, we both know Hamas wouldn't exist without Israel existing. And we also know that Hamas wouldn't have got the power it ever did without Israel pushing for it to do so.

Fortunately I think most people noticed the ploy Hamas was pulling and turned against them. Hamas is a populist movement who is very smart to take advantage and prolong a chaotic situation. Indeed, I guess Israelis could be blamed that Palestinians are eating themselves up like rabid dogs but I'm tired of animal analogies.

Palestinians are not eating themselves up like "rabid dogs" and it appears it's only you that is using animal analogies. But thanks for that insight into your psyche, which displays a dehumanization of the Palestinian people. Of course, you have to have dehumanized them before you can talk like this about them...

Gaza might not be a safe environment but it's not like it's NOT their home and should treat it with respect.

Can you ask Israel to do that instead of sniping to death from outside the prison walls, those who are protesting within the prison, for their human rights?

Your idea of occupation, then, is completely different from mine.

What do you mean when you say occupation? I go by what international law says, so it's not my definition really.

I mean actually invading Gaza, troops on the ground, eliminating Hamas and all hostile forces, taking control and imposing a puppet government, maintained by the PA with the help of the International Community just to get themselves up from their shit swamp. That's an occupation.

Well Israel does some of the stuff you described. In Operation Protective Edge and Operation Pillar of Defense, Israeli troops went into Gaza. In the former, they had to withdraw because Israeli troops were getting killed in much larger numbers than expected, and you know how much Israel has to avoid that happening. Israel has still been killing Hamas and "hostile forces" it imprisons. It often does though, to provoke a response, in order to justify further killing of Palestinian prisoners inside of Gaza. There is a pattern, forensic scholar Norman Finkelstein has documented in his most recent book Gaza, as well as elsewhere.

Yet for some reason Israel's relations with its Arab neighbors and the rest of the world is... improving and the KSA is only one example.

Congrats for having good relations with ISIS/Al-Qaeda in state form. Fascist birds of a feather, surely flock together.

These countries are seeing what sort of advancements and innovations Israel creates, and what a robust economy it is.

Yes, that must be it.

The only ones out of the band wagon are Lebanon and Syria, but they are Iranian vassal states, no?

Lebanon and Syria are independent states who refuse to conform to the neoliberal world order, just like Libya and Iraq and Iran, who supports the former two. How exactly is having allies = a vassal state. Is it just because it's a government you don't like? If what you say is true, Saudi Arabia and Israel are vassal states, created by Britain and now run by America.

As the Arab states' economies grow and their quality of life improved, they see this as beneficial and attitudes are changing as people are realizing that Israel is not the Little Devil that it's painted out to by some.

If anything, as time goes on, Israel is seen more and more like a rogue state. You of course know this, because never has there been a time in Israel's 70 years of existence as a borderless state on top of Palestine, where Israel is condemned more, than today. This is increasing even faster, amongst young Jews in America, over the last 3/4 years. The future is not bright with Israel if people like you continue to justify its crimes, rather than call for it to stop oppressing Palestinians.

Also, my country, despite its harsh criticism towards Israel, has always been a close ally and friend to Israel.

So? A lot of Western governments support Israel. That's not news to anyone. The people on the other hand, overwhelmingly support freedom for the Palestinians from Israeli occupation and blockade.

Still, since you're so zionist-y here, why don't you make aliya? You know there's some people in Israel who deny your zionism if you can't even walk the walk...

See, everything isn't as it seems, but if you just want to look of photos of barbed wire fences, burning tires and people being rushed to the hospital because they got shot (but not showing what they did prior to being shot), you will get a certain but very constrained view of reality.

People who see images and film of the prison camp Gaza and militarily occupied Palestine otherwise can see for themselves what they see. What you try to tell them to see is just another hasbara tactic that unfortunately doesn't work much anymore, since as I've repeatedly said, ye cannot polish a turd.

Despite your claims otherwise, for some reason the world is not following your line. Seriously, nobody cares about the shitshow that is Gaza and many are just giving up on the Palestinians.

Source? I go to a talks and protests about and for Palestine, try telling people there they don't give a shit about the Palestinians.

Also, try telling politicians within the UK and American government that are beginning to legislate against Israeli torture of Palestinian children.

Try telling all those academics, musicians, engineers, psychologists, teachers, etc.etc.etc. who support the BDS movement that they're "just giving up on the Palestinians". You see the updates in the BDS thread, it's a gift that keeps on giving.

According to you nobody cares, yet here you are, making long-ass posts about Palestine.

Besieging Gaza does risk violence yes, but it would also risk violence if the blockade was lifted.

Please provide evidence for this thing you imagine that has never happened.

Israel is not going to gamble the safety of its citizens for, what I think is a very naive or misplaced humanitarian agenda.

Why naive? Do Palestinians not deserve the same rights as you or I or what Jews in Palestine get?

I feel for the Palestinians, as they are incidentally our brothers, but they also have a hand in their own misery.

You sure love to blame the victim, while playing victim too. It is notable.

Their leadership has taken them towards a very hopeless road, so Israel can't bare full, if any, responsibility for decisions made by others.

More bullshit. There was never a plan for a two-state solution. Israel wanted the entirety of Palestine and this is what it has got, granted, with about 5/6 million people it doesn't want in the land, but it's too late to kill them outright because the world is watching.

95% of the world consider it actually illegal? If that is the case, if the world goes nuts, don't follow them. Never was into group think, so...

Yes the international community considers the occupations and blockade as war crimes in the form of collective punishment, despite your feelings.

Where is this proof of a consideration and where is the proof that this consideration is fact? Legality is not a matter of opinion generally but I've come to understand that international law seems to be only opinion, so does it have any merit actually? Anyway, opinion is not fact. Sieges / blockades are collective punishment indeed but fortunately a siege in itself is not illegal as long as the reasons for the siege are valid because a siege is a VALID AND LEGAL DEFENSIVE MEASURE!!! Did you know this?

There is no valid reason for Israel to imprison Palestinians in Gaza or military occupy them (occupations are also meant to be temporary, if anything, yet here we are 50 years later with no end in sight of Israel's military occupations).

You appear to suggest there is a valid reason for imprisoning and occupying people. Can you show me any laws or world bodies or human rights orgs that supports this position?

I consider the siege harsh, and the best of all the bad options - but it's still completely legal.

Which law supports it?

The reasons are valid in this case: Gaza is used as a launching ground for hostilities against Israel and Israelis daily. It has been so even before there was a full blown siege.

I'm sure any group who was imprisoned for no other reason than their ethnicity/religion would resist such conditions. You've heard of the Warsaw Ghetto, right? It's comparable to Gaza.

I don't see any good argument why anyone should act differently faced with such hostility and bold statements of how brutally they will murder Jews. Why should Israel gamble with Israeli lives

For the simple reason that: no justice (for Palestinians), no peace (for Israel).

[danholo]

Now it's your turn to prove that Gaza being a concentration camp is "fake news".

I really don't have to since no serious historian would make that comparison. Comparing something for political effect is not fact.

Exaggerating the plight of the Palestinians' to such an extent will just make any sympathy go away. Just as Jews might cry wolf about constant antisemitism, when there is none, comparing Palestinians with the Jews that were the victims' of Nazi genocide is the exact same thing - nobody will take you seriously if nothing you say is true.

[danholo]

Here's some perspective to your very constrained understanding of the situation... Seriously. I mean, how can I disprove something that doesn't exist?

The Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza have nothing in common. The Warsaw Ghetto was a piece in the diabolical puzzle of the Jewish Holocaust by the Nazis. Gaza’s security situation is caused by Israeli reaction to Palestinian terrorism, or belligerence, if you prefer that term. The Jews of the Warsaw Ghetto committed no crime and did not provoke any Nazi aggression through violence. Palestinians in Gaza have been attacking the Jews of Israel since Israel’s founding. Through Fedayeen and terrorist attacks, Palestinians in Gaza have forced Israel to defend its citizens through measures that have had an adverse effect on other Palestinians in Gaza. The Nazis completely liquidated the Warsaw Ghetto in the course of three years, killing around 400,000 Jews. After over 60 years of struggle, including nearly 50 years of Jewish dominion over Gaza, around 25,000 Palestinians have been killed in the entire struggle (not just Gaza), many of whom were combatants. Under 50 years of Israeli control, Gaza has actually increased its population by 500%. Finally, Israel has performed an admirable job, under fire, of providing aid to the Palestinians, though much of that aid is seized by Hamas, a terrorist organization.

http://blogs.timesofisrael.com/no-gaza- ... aw-ghetto/

Look, I can also just PROVE anything by posting a link. Isn't the Internet amazing? I'm ALWAYS RIGHT!!!

But seriously, your comparison shits on the memory of those murdered in the Holocaust.

[skinster]

I'm Norman Finkelstein and you're the girl crying crocodile tears. If you had any heart in you, you would be crying for the Palestinians.

Good day, danholo.

[danholo]

I don't cry for people who don't deserve any tears.

[Rich]

So how does life expectancy in this so called Gazan death camp compare with the free Muslims of Egypt?

[skinster]

Here you go.

[danholo]

Everyone supposedly hates Israel. Where does this fall on the hate spectrum?

ISRAEL GIVES JORDAN AN IDF MERKAVA TANK FOR A MUSEUM
https://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Israe ... eum-562330

How's that for a 180 for two nations who have fought two wars against each other!

[Zamuel]

Just as Jews might cry wolf about constant antisemitism, when there is none, comparing Palestinians with the Jews that were the victims' of Nazi genocide is the exact same thing - nobody will take you seriously if nothing you say is true.

A very good point.

“The Warsaw Ghetto and Gaza have nothing in common."

I have to take exception to this article though. The Ghetto and Gaza (at present) have several things in common and several distinct differences.

The first is that both have elements of self-government and self reliance. You might say they were "supervised" but neither feature constant, direct, administration by external forces. (much cheaper to skip that). Both encouraged endemic smuggling and harassment of their enemies. Both evolved coercive internal resistance groups that sought status as the local "government." Finally, both focused on futile resistance.

The Israeli's learned from the example and have tried to avoid the mistakes the Germans made. They have refrained from tactical intimidation. They have attempted to provide food and medicine in hopes of minimizing desperation. They have taken steps to prevent illicit smuggling and corruption, rather than simply profiting from it.

Palestinians have learned the value of persistence, but have failed to comprehend it's limitations. Where the Jews in Warsaw desired relief, the Palestinians seem rather to desire a legacy.

your comparison shits on the memory of those murdered in the Holocaust.

I sympathize with the sentiment, but realistically, the comparison is minor and has effected the tactics of both sides. The Holocaust as a whole has nothing in common with gaza, as much as the propogandists would like us to think so. It is essential to recall that the Palestinians chose their own course of action. They were not driven into it by Israel.

Zam

[noemon]

Conjecture. The Palestinian issue is on the table ALL THE TIME, sure, but people stop listening to you when you keep on yelling: "Wolf!", and that's the issue here.

This is the only relevant thing you said. You seem to be oblivious to the fact that Israel is the only country that has crossed the UN Green Line and is occupying territory that has been declared by the UN as not Israeli. You keep on mentioning Cyprus, Tibet and a whole bunch of nonsense but you keep avoiding the fact that not even the Turks crossed the UN Green Line in Cyprus. Israel not only crossed the Green Line but has been occupying internationally declared foreign territory for over 50 years. This is not "crying wolf", it is a gross violation and brazen disrespect for all international norms and relations and as if that were not enough, now there is the demand that the UN is at fault for proclaiming that Green Line in the first place.

It is essential to recall that the Palestinians chose their own course of action. They were not driven into it by Israel.

The only thing essential to recall is that the only mistake of the Palestinians is to have been born into an area earmarked by the British Empire as future Jewish-only territory.

[Zamuel]

The only thing essential to recall is that the only mistake of the Palestinians is to have been born into an area earmarked by the British Empire as future Jewish-only territory.

Presumably ? You refer to this:

"His Majesty's government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people,"

But you seem unaware that it continues thusly:

"and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine"

The British made no move to evict or encourage the movement of Palestinians. In many instances they fought alongside Arabs covertly (as in Jordan).

Palestinians fleeing their homes was largely the work of Arab League propaganda and facilitation. The league leaders bought their property (cheap), promising to eventually restore it (for free) … after … Then, through surrogates, they sold the property to immigrant Jews (at big profits). Israeli's stole nothing from Palestinians. It was all bought and paid for, and they have the deeds to prove it.

Yes, Palestinians were betrayed, not by Jews and not by the British, they were betrayed by their own paranoia and by their avaricious nature. Both of those traits remain apparent today.

Zam

[noemon]

But you seem unaware that it continues thusly:

You seem unaware to reality where the rights of the natives are being prejudiced 70 years later by the new administration and hence this topic as well.

Palestinians fleeing their homes was largely the work of Arab League propaganda and facilitation. The league leaders bought their property (cheap), promising to eventually restore it (for free) … after … Then, through surrogates, they sold the property to immigrant Jews (at big profits). Israeli's stole nothing from Palestinians. It was all bought and paid for, and they have the deeds to prove it.

You should take this shitty zionist propaganda in the relative ME thread, this nonsense has been debunked by Jewish and Israeli scholars such as Miko Peled(whose father signed the Israeli Declaration of Independence) and Norman Finkelstein.

Yes, Palestinians were betrayed, not by Jews and not by the British, they were betrayed by their own paranoia and by their avaricious nature. Both of those traits remain apparent today.

Let's make something clear, this thread and this topic is about the ongoing Israeli occupation and colonial settlement of the Palestinian Occupied Territories, that is Israel crossing the UN green line and the UN criticising it for that exactly. Somehow you are whining that Israel should not be criticised for this brazen disrespect of international norms. It is not about whatever nonsense you can come up with to dilute this and take it off-topic. Your whining that you don't like being compared to the nazis while blaming the victims of the occupation and settlement policies is just deliciously ironic and of course absolutely hypocritical. I'm sure it's their fault that they are not handing over their houses without a fight just like you would prefer it.

[Zamuel]

You seem unaware to reality where the rights of the natives are being prejudiced 70 years later by the new administration and hence this topic as well.

I'm aware of it, I just consider it a fallacy rather than a reality … That the UN has allowed this duplicity demonstrates the corruption and complicity of the UNHRC. The only valid response is to denounce it and refuse to participate. You don't have to like that, you're not expected to, your response has nothing to do with the US policy, which is based on honesty and responsibility.

this nonsense has been debunked by Jewish and Israeli scholars such as Miko Peled(whose father signed the Israeli Declaration of Independence) and Norman Finkelstein.

I have no interest in Media clowns.

Let's make something clear, this thread and this topic is about the ongoing Israeli occupation and colonial settlement of the Palestinian Occupied Territories

Alleged "occupation, etc." We disagree, that is still allowed on Pofo isn't it? Your fantasies are not sacred ground.

It is not about whatever nonsense you can come up with to dilute this and take it off-topic.

I didn't raise Balfore, or British intent, you did (quite mistakenly). If you can't accept correction perhaps you should pay more attention to your allegations.

I'm sure it's their fault that they are not handing over their houses without a fight just like you would prefer it.

Is this your idea of "staying on topic?" Noemon edit: Rules 2 & 16

[noir]

@Zamuel

this nonsense has been debunked by Jewish and Israeli scholars such as Miko Peled(whose father signed the Israeli Declaration of Independence) and Norman Finkelstein.

He uses the same sources that the PoFo's Islamist propagandist uses. Miko Peled is not his grand father and he's not a "scholar", his father was Arabic literuture professor or whatever. Miko Peled is political activst who become extreme and crazy after his niece was murdered by a Palestinian terrorist in a suicide bombing in downtown Jerusalem when she was shopping. A trauma that freaked him out just for the sinister propagandists to use him also in despair.

Norman Finkelstein is a radical American Jew whose book Holocaust Industry got praised by the Neo Nazis. On recent years he turned his activity on Israel Palestine issue. He is used by the Islamists propagandists because his "Jewish" background is enough to give him credibility. He's never visited Israel.

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/alan-der ... 42486.html

Would You Invite David Duke to Your Campus?
By Alan Dershowitz
Recently Norman Finkelstein has been making the rounds of American college campuses—Stanford, Brandeis, Harvard, Bryn Mawr, Northwestern and more—having been invited by various departments, groups and individuals. Many of the people extending the invitations are unaware that by inviting this person on their behalf, they are becoming complicit with neo-Nazis, Holocaust deniers, and anti-Semites. Some of the invitees were all too aware of what kind of person they were inviting.

Finkelstein willingly collaborates with neo-Nazis, Holocaust deniers and anti-Semites. Just watch him on YouTube.com, where a clip is posted of his appearance on a Holocaust denial program on Lebanese TV, where he claimed that Holocaust survivors are liars and that Swiss banks—which have agreed to pay back millions of dollars belonging to deceased Jewish depositors and their heirs—never withheld any money from Jews. Neo-Nazis also love Finkelstein, and for good reason. Listen to Ernst Zundel, the notorious Hitler lover and Holocaust denier who is now in prison in Germany:

Finkelstein’s exceedingly useful to us and to the Revisionist cause. He is making three-fourths of our argument - and making it effectively. Never fret - the rest of the argument is being made by us, and will topple the lie within our lifetime. We would not be making vast inroads in Europe with our outreach program, were it not for his courageous little booklet, “The Holocaust Industry.”
Zundel’s wife and fellow Neo-Nazi, Ingrid Rimland, referred to Finkelstein admiringly as the “Jewish David Irving”—a reference to the well known Holocaust denier and admirer of Hitler. Finkelstein himself admires Irving’s “historical” research.

Finkelstein also loves Hezbollah, the terror organization whose leader said, “If Jews all gather in Israel, it will save us the trouble of going after them worldwide.”1 Finkelstein has praised the group, saying: “The honorable thing now is to show solidarity with Hezbollah as the United States and Israel target it for liquidation. Indeed, looking back my chief regret is that I wasn’t even more forceful in publicly defending Hezbollah against terrorist intimidation and attack.”2 Finkelstein is not “world-renowned,” as some of his invitees claim, except among Holocaust deniers, neo-Nazis, radical supporters of terrorism and other assorted anti-Semites, who constitute his primary readership and audience. He recently commissioned a cartoon-showing me masturbating in ecstatic joy to television pictures of dead Lebanese-by a neo-Nazi cartoonist and friend of his who won second place in the Iranian Holocaust denial cartoon contest. He has refused to confirm or deny that he commissioned the cartoon, even when asked to do so by colleagues at DePaul University, where he is up for tenure, on the grounds that no one will believe him. The evidence that he commissioned the cartoon is overwhelming.

It is not surprising therefore that when Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and his henchmen created a list of the most virulent Holocaust deniers in the world to invite to their notorious Holocaust denier hate-fest in Tehran, high among those on the list were the neo-Nazi and klansman David Duke and the Holocaust justice denier Norman Finkelstein. Finkelstein’s name appeared on the schedule alongside Duke’s, though apparently Finkelstein, at the last minute, decided not to appear. The reason Finkelstein has given for eventually declining the invitation had nothing to do with any principled opposition at being a speaker at such an anti-Semitic hate-fest. Instead, he claimed that negotiations with the Iranians broke down over details. He says that he wanted “at least 45 minutes to speak”—apparently because he needs at least that much time to spew his hatred—but they wouldn’t agree to his conditions. He has refused to disclose his communications with the Iranians regarding his invitation. What does he have to hide? Who is he protecting; the Iranian hate mongers or himself? He should be urged to disclose his communication, both with the Iranian Holocaust deniers and his neo-Nazi cartoonist friend.

The real reason he did not attend is that he was too busy trying to testify on behalf of Hamas in a Chicago criminal trial. After listening to his proposed testimony and learning of his lack of credentials—he has never even visited Israel—the federal judge concluded that he did not have any expertise, essentially characterizing him as a crackpot. This was consistent with other, similar characterizations. A New York Times review by a leading expert of Finkelstein’s book The Holocaust Industry called it:

. . . a novel variation on the anti-Semitic forgery, “The Protocols of the Elders of Zion” [It] verges on paranoia and would serve anti-Semites around the world.3

Marc Fisher of the Washington Post correctly described Finkelstein as “ a writer celebrated by neo-Nazi groups for his Holocaust revisionism and comparisons of Israel to Nazi Germany.”4 Leon Wieseltier of the New Republic wrote: “You don’t know who Finkelstein is. He’s poison, he’s a disgusting self-hating Jew, he’s something you find under a rock.”5 Others describe Finkelstein’s theories as “crackpot ideas, some of them mirrored almost verbatim in the propaganda put out by neo-Nazis all over the world.”6 One eminent scholar added:

No facts alleged by Finkelstein should be assumed to be really facts, no quotations in his book should be assumed to be accurate, without taking the time to carefully compare his claims with the sources he cites . . . Such an examination reveals that many of those assertions are pure invention...7
This is the bigot who is being invited to speak on college campuses. No college should prevent him from speaking. He can get a soapbox and fulminate the way other bigots do. That is his free speech right. But no university or group that would not invite David Duke should lend its imprimatur to Finkelstein’s poison. Duke and Finkelstein are opposite sides of the same hateful coin.
Everyone should be free to invite the Dukes and Finkelsteins of the world to their campus, as the president of Iran did to his hate fest, but people should be judged by the bigots they invite. If you know any university that has invited or is considering inviting Finkelstein, please feel free to circulate this blog to them and to reproduce it.

1- Nasrallah, Hassan, quoted in Lappin, Elena. “The Enemy Within.” New York Times (May 23 2004). 15.
2- Finkelstein, Norman. “A Reply to Michael Young.” [Online article].
3-Bartov, Omer. “A Tale of Two Holocausts.” New York Times (Aug. 6 2000). 8.
4-Fisher, Marc. “Campus Should Cultivate Its Seeds of Debate.” Washington Post (Dec. 3 2002) [Online article].
5-Reported by Finkelstein himself.
6-Schoenfeld, Gabriel. “Holocaust Reparations,” Commentary (Jan. 2001). 20.
7-Novick, Peter. Offense Fenster und Tueren. Uben Norman Finkelstein Keuzzug, in: Petra Steinberger (ed.): Die Finkelstein-Debatte, (Piper verlag: Muenchen 2001), p. 159 (translated from German).

Do you have information you want to share with HuffPost? Here’s how.

[noemon]

I'm aware of it, I just consider it a fallacy rather than a reality … That the UN has allowed this duplicity demonstrates the corruption and complicity of the UNHRC. The only valid response is to denounce it and refuse to participate. You don't have to like that, you're not expected to, your response has nothing to do with the US policy, which is based on honesty and responsibility.

If your house was being bulldozed to the ground to make way for colonial settlers you would not be considering it a "fallacy" nor would you be praising the Trump administration as "honest and responsible" for supporting brazenly such colonial projects in this day and age.

I have no interest in Media clowns.
Alleged "occupation, etc." We disagree, that is still allowed on Pofo isn't it? Your fantasies are not sacred ground.

Boring smart-ass crap that add nothing to the topic and address nothing whatsoever. Keeping on-topic is not a "fantasy" nor is anyone stopping you from arguing that Israel is not actually currently occupying the Palestinian Occupied Territories, however silly that may be. You were told not to go off-topic by talking about the Nakba in the 1940's. Trying to milk that in order to sell yourself as a victim is both cute and petty.

I didn't raise Balfore, or British intent, you did (quite mistakenly). If you can't accept correction perhaps you should pay more attention to your allegations.

No correction has been made, you have been corrected for posting zionist propaganda accusing the victims for the loss of their houses. Just because the Balfour declaration states that the natives will keep their rights it does not mean that they have kept them because they haven't and reality trumps both words and nonsensical apologists.
This argument is a new kind of funny, just because the law states that people should not murder it does not mean that there are no murderers. And you consider that a correction. Precious.

Is this your idea of "staying on topic?"

Erm, yes. The loss of Palestinian houses due to Israel crossing the UN Green Line and occupying and settling that territory in the here and now is within the topic as it is the very reason it is being criticised by the UN. Seems like you have lost your bearings.

@noir you keep on trying to discredit the individuals expressing their arguments instead of the arguments being expressed. It's very lazy and proves that you cannot address the arguments and have given up completely.