[skinster]

Lehman, if you're going to get all hysterical at my posts, prove me wrong. I'm here for you, babe. I'll hear you out.

I'm not. Israel does and should fear a sovereign Palestine due to how powerful Palestinian self-determination is. This goes for the relationship between the West and the Middle East. If the Middle East united into one stable nation, it would be the biggest fear of the West.

You're talking about hypotheticals that are unrelated to what my initial point was: that you shouldn't justify or legitimize Israeli oppression as though it's based on any zionist fear. It's not. No sympathy for colonizers.

Well I'll eat my words.

I would recommend at this point, to read up on issues that you're talking about, because some of what you're saying doesn't make sense and again, looks like guess-work.

Israel was founded on the idea that it would be a Jewish homeland. Non-Jews are excluded from that premise.

That's not true. Israel was only demanding to be known as a Jewish state in 2013/2014 when Nethanyahu demanded such as a prerequisite to negotiations that took place then (and obviously failed). Referring to Israel as a Jewish state is a misnomer, for reasons I've already set out.

Regardless, as you can see from the evidence I had given, Israel isn't going to last very long.

What evidence?

Whether equality is given to Palestinians or not, Israel is unsustainable and equality won't change that.

By asserting itself as a Jewish state, Israel makes it clear that it does not intend to give Palestinians equality to Jews. That's my point.

Israel denied rights to Palestinians before the (recent) Israeli demand that it be recognised as a Jewish state. By asserting itself as Jewish state, Israel wants to deny Palestinian refugees their legal right of return, keep Palestinian territory such as the occupied territories and kick out any non-Jews from the land. It should be obvious why Nethanyahu attempted to demand Israel be known as a Jewish state, as he know no Palestinian leader would accept such a demand since it erases Palestinians from the land entirely.

It doesn't matter whether or not half of the population is non-Jewish that doesn't matter when you're trying to get equality. What matters is what the general population thinks.

Which general population? That which is living freely or occupied in the land? Do their thoughts on how they're not Jews living in Palestine matter more than those who are Jews in the land? I mean obviously you needn't bother addressing these questions, they're just here to point out how you keep saying really odd things.

I never denied that. I said that Palestinians aren't seen as citizens by the government or society.

Over a million Palestinians in Israel are considered Israeli citizens. Yes, there are 51 laws that discriminate against them, but despite those they are still considered Israeli citizens because they have Israeli citizenship.

Furthermore, I'm just reiterating the same point that I have made before. This isn't moving on, this is staying in the same place.

Indeed. It's odd because the further this conversation goes, the more you get into hypotheticals and further away from what the discussion was originally about. Stop guessing about the situation, look it up first instead. I expect this shit from zionists since they live in mythology and are taught how to hasbara, but supporters of Palestine have enough material to learn the reality of the situation, its history and what's going on on the ground.

What Palestinians have to do is merely survive and prosper however they can and do what they need to do. Eventually, Israel will fall apart and Palestinians will have self-determination.

[LehmanB]

I think you two haven't agreed yet on what is a Palestinian.

[skinster]

I don't remember that being a debate we were having.

[LehmanB]

So I did notinced that you refer to Arabs in Israel as Palestinians, and Oxy refers more to Arabs in Judea Samaria and Gaza as Palestinians. Thats the dissonance I have seen.

[Oxymandias]

@LehmanB

Why did you ask him names, and not how many died, and by who?
For instance, even if you include the fake events that Israel weren't doing anything, you still count a very low number.

I did look into them and even if the amount of people who died weren't that much, the fact that people were dying because of the motivations Israel had goes to show how inhumane it's occupation is.

Furthermore, you don't even know a single thing about Palestinians and have admitted this in this thread so most of what you're saying about Palestinians is pure speculation. It holds no weight.

And explain me what Palestinians are . What is "Palestinian"- I think Skinnister explained it better than you. And what occupation shall end.

A Palestinian is a person who identifies with Palestinian culture. It's as simple as that. While the cultural boundaries of Palestine are vague, they do in fact exist.

And explain me Israel doesn't want them to be a state

Israelis assassinated a politician who wanted to implement a two state solution. Your lord and savior, Verv, stated this and after fact-checking it he's right. Israel does not want a Palestinian state because if Palestinians did gain sovereignty, not only would Israel lose it's access to Palestinian foreign aid, have to pay reparations to Palestine thus boosting it's economy, have no control over it's access to food, water, or money, cannot commit the same atrocities against Palestinians before without declaring war, and lose access to land. That is why Israel won't allow for a two state solution.

And explain me Israel doesn't want them to be a state, yet it doesn't contrast they refuses internationally to control the population unless they get more. You simply didn't contrast my argument.

I honestly don't know what you're saying here. Your English is incomprehensible.

[Oxymandias]

@LehmanB

I'm talking about culture and national identity, not geographical location. Geographical location is meaningless.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Israelis assassinated a politician who wanted to implement a two state solution. Your lord and savior, Verv, stated this and after fact-checking it he's right. Israel does not want a Palestinian state because if Palestinians did gain sovereignty, not only would Israel lose it's access to Palestinian foreign aid, have to pay reparations to Palestine thus boosting it's economy, have no control over it's access to food, water, or money, cannot commit the same atrocities against Palestinians before without declaring war, and lose access to land. That is why Israel won't allow for a two state solution.

You have completely missed the point

the reason why Israel does not want a Palestinian state is because it will pose a strategic threat to most crucial parts of Israel
the central region and Jerusalem

Israel does not belive the Palestinians will ever accept its existence thus giving them a state with an army that could potentially bomb tel aviv with just mortars is something Israel can not afford itself to do

Gaza is a pretty good example of what could potentially happen in the West bank

[Oxymandias]

@skinster

You're talking about hypotheticals that are unrelated to what my initial point was: that you shouldn't justify or legitimize Israeli oppression as though it's based on any zionist fear. It's not. No sympathy for colonizers.

I'm not legitimatizing it though. I'm saying that Zionists fear an independent Palestine. They want to make sure Palestinians never improve themselves or prosper because they afraid of how great Palestinians can become. That is the hypocrisy of Zionists. They assert that the present condition of Palestine is a naturality when it is in fact an artificial effort to keep Palestinians down. They should either rebel or wait for the eventual instability and paranoia that characterizes Israel to take over. No one's sympathizing with Zionist here, I can give you that .

That's not true. Israel was only demanding to be known as a Jewish state in 2013/2014 when Nethanyahu demanded such as a prerequisite to negotiations that took place then (and obviously failed). Referring to Israel as a Jewish state is a misnomer, for reasons I've already set out.

Isn't the foundation of Zionist thought the idea of a homeland only for Jews? Zionism was influential in the development of a Israeli state. Israel was designed to be unequal, it was designed to be oppressive of any non-Jewish persons.

What evidence?

Agriculture is declining, Israel is increasingly becoming more dependent on imports, half of Israel's GDP is Israeli and stolen Palestinian foreign aid, Israel is geographically very vulnerable, Israel is becoming increasingly more fascistic as citizens trade security for their own individual freedoms, Israel's economy is very undiverse with security making up a huge chunk of their economy, and Israel's military has gone downhill as of late and is nothing like how it was during the 50s.

:eh:

Oh come on! Are you on the side of thinking that Israel is here to stay too?

Israel denied rights to Palestinians before the (recent) Israeli demand that it be recognised as a Jewish state. By asserting itself as Jewish state, Israel wants to deny Palestinian refugees their legal right of return, keep Palestinian territory such as the occupied territories and kick out any non-Jews from the land. It should be obvious why Nethanyahu attempted to demand Israel be known as a Jewish state, as he know no Palestinian leader would accept such a demand since it erases Palestinians from the land entirely.

I think you're agreeing with me here. While Israel did deny rights to Palestinians before, this formalizes the idea that Israel is a state for Jews and no one else.

Which general population? That which is living freely or occupied in the land? Do their thoughts on how they're not Jews living in Palestine matter more than those who are Jews in the land? I mean obviously you needn't bother addressing these questions, they're just here to point out how you keep saying really odd things.

Alright, who are you trying to get equality from, Palestine or Israel? Palestine already has equal rights for all Palestinians, Israel does not. Israel has discriminatory laws against non-Jews. You want to change this. By asserting that Israel is a Jewish nation, Israel basically says "equality is never going to happen". It doesn't matter how many logical or good arguments you can make against them. What is set in stone is set in stone.

Over a million Palestinians in Israel are considered Israeli citizens. Yes, there are 51 laws that discriminate against them, but despite those they are still considered Israeli citizens because they have Israeli citizenship.

Go to any Israeli Jew on the street, get their attention, point to a Israeli Arab and ask "do you think he is an Israeli citizen just like you or me?". The answer is probably no. Who makes up the government? Israeli Jews. If Israeli Jews, collectively, decide that Israeli Arabs or Palestinians aren't deserving of equal rights then it doesn't matter how much of a citizen Palestinians can be. It is merely an empty title by that point.

Indeed. It's odd because the further this conversation goes, the more you get into hypotheticals and further away from what the discussion was originally about. Stop guessing about the situation, look it up first instead. I expect this shit from zionists since they live in mythology and are taught how to hasbara, but supporters of Palestine have enough material to learn the reality of the situation, its history and what's going on on the ground.

Zionists would say the exact opposite of what I am saying. Zionists would stress how equal in rights Palestinians have and would cherry pick everything in Israeli law to prove this. I am aware of the situation. You can't be this blind to how Israelis actually see Palestinians. Palestinians can be formally known as citizens, but they aren't treated as such because they aren't seen as citizens by Israeli society. They are seen as foreigners Why can't you understand this? By stating that Palestinians are treated like every single other citizen, you yourself legitimatize Israeli's actions.

[Oxymandias]

@Zionist Nationalist

the reason why Israel does not want a Palestinian state is because it will pose a strategic threat to most crucial parts of Israel
the central region and Jerusalem

You just said the exact same thing as one of my points.

Israel does not belive the Palestinians will ever accept its existence thus giving them a state with an army that could potentially bomb tel aviv with just mortars is something Israel can not afford itself to do

If Palestinians have a state they wouldn't care about Israel, at least for the time being. They would rather be left alone. The Palestinian territories are practically fully under the control of Israel. Simply being able to have a fair election without Israel interfering and placing the Hamas on top like they did with their truce with them would be enough.

Furthermore, you have to be stupid that any two state solution would result in Palestine having a military.

Gaza is a pretty good example of what could potentially happen in the West bank

Gaza is fully controlled by Israel in every single way. This is less an example of what could happen if Palestine was independent and more of an example of what could happen if Israel has a one state solution where Palestinians don't have equal rights. I guess Israelis don't know how to govern a country that isn't a shithole. They can't even govern a place as small as Gaza.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Gaza is fully controlled by Israel in every single way. This is less an example of what could happen if Palestine was independent and more of an example of what could happen if Israel has a one state solution where Palestinians don't have equal rights. I guess Israelis don't know how to govern a country that isn't a shithole. They can't even govern a place as small as Gaza.

What are you talking about there are no Israelis in Gaza and the only thing Israel control is the borders and partly on whats getting in and out

Gaza is a shithole because they made it to be a shithole they could make this a prosper modern place instead they choose the path of terror

[Oxymandias]

@Zionist Nationalist

What are you talking about there are no Israelis in Gaza and the only thing Israel control is the borders and partly on whats getting in and out

Just because there are no Israelis in Gaza doesn't mean they don't govern it. Furthermore, Israel controls the amount of food that gets into Gaza, the economy (they make sure that the Palestinian economy is always on the brink of collapse), the political system (the Hamas weren't elected by Palestinians, they were made the authority of Gaza by Israel as per their truce), etc.

Gaza is a shithole because Israel has dedicated the time and energy into making it one.

[LehmanB]

The Palestianians do not form a state also because they don't want to. I don't need to want it. They refused to GWBush and to Clinton for 96% of Judea and Samaria.

The occupation is extremely humane it allowed Jews to live, and the Arabs to grow 7 times bigger. And the list skinnister has given to you including fake, Arabs who massacred Arabs, and 48th war. So Skinnister meant for Israel existance as an occupation of palestine. You two have to synchronize on what occupation do you want to end and what palestinians want and what do you think a palestinian is today.
The term massacre here extended into every fighting, or to quote you " the amount of people who died weren't that much" - if thats a genoside, than I understand why Jewish building homes in Judea is a war crime / apertheid.

The Palestinians refused to get a state cause there is nothing as palestinians except being under Jews. The moment you aren't under Jews you aren't palestinian anymore, and than you aren't been taken care of:(

Gaza is a shithole because Israel has dedicated the time and energy into making it one.

Gaza was in greater condition when Jews lived there. It always been a shithole though, for generations. Now you blame Jewish control over borders for all their problems. That means you don't think the Arabs there form their own things, they just react. You de humanize the Palestinian, my friend. This is why you have chiosen the dark side.

@Zionist Nationalist
"Gaza is a shithole because they made it to be a shithole they could make this a prosper modern place instead they choose the path of terror"
You mean the Arabs there designed their reality, and they are not toys of Jews? Jews aren't responssible for everything wrong there? But hey, they published a number that they have the best literacy in the world!! So if they are still a shit hole it means someone blocks them- are there Jews around?!

[skinster]

I'm not legitimatizing it though. I'm saying that Zionists fear an independent Palestine. They want to make sure Palestinians never improve themselves or prosper because they afraid of how great Palestinians can become.

They don't fear it. They just don't want it and they can go with that since they have all the power.

Isn't the foundation of Zionist thought the idea of a homeland only for Jews? Zionism was influential in the development of a Israeli state. Israel was designed to be unequal, it was designed to be oppressive of any non-Jewish persons.

While zionism is an ideology that granted a homeland for Jews, the way Israel is currently set up is that it is a state controlled by Jews, which includes non-Jews. Israel wasn't designed to be unequal since zionists lied about their intentions when seeking Palestine from the Brits. The Balfour Agreement did not say Zionism is going to be an ethnosupremacist state, it said:

it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine

Palestine already has equal rights for all Palestinians, Israel does not.

Palestinians have no rights in prison Gaza and very few rights in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

By asserting that Israel is a Jewish nation, Israel basically says "equality is never going to happen". It doesn't matter how many logical or good arguments you can make against them. What is set in stone is set in stone.

Again, it was only Nethanyahu and his minions who consider Israel to be a Jewish state, since 2014. Nethanyahu also believes the country is democratic and he believed that long before 2014, is that true too because he and they say so?

Go to any Israeli Jew on the street, get their attention, point to a Israeli Arab and ask "do you think he is an Israeli citizen just like you or me?". The answer is probably no.

Your guesswork, again, has nothing to do with what I said nor changes it: over a million Palestinians hold Israeli citizenship, meaning they are Israeli citizens.

Who makes up the government? Israeli Jews.

There are non-Jews in the Knesset.

If Israeli Jews, collectively, decide that Israeli Arabs or Palestinians aren't deserving of equal rights then it doesn't matter how much of a citizen Palestinians can be. It is merely an empty title by that point.

Palestinians in Israel who have citizenship are still citizens, despite there being laws that discriminate against them for not being Jewish. I'm just saying what is.

[Oxymandias]

@skinster

They don't fear it. They just don't want it and they can go with that since they have all the power.

There's a reason why they don't want it otherwise they would've given it to them in the first place. If giving Palestinians an independent sovereign state and self-determination didn't matter they would've given it to them since it doesn't matter. Zionist Nationalist himself stated why Israel fears a sovereign Palestinian state even if he got most of the reasoning wrong. Once again, this does not legitimatize Israel's actions, it does not make them more sympathetic. Could you please stop trying to imply that I don't support Palestine. You should know by this point I clearly do.

While zionism is an ideology that granted a homeland for Jews, the way Israel is currently set up is that it is a state controlled by Jews, which includes non-Jews. Israel wasn't designed to be unequal since zionists lied about their intentions when seeking Palestine from the Brits. The Balfour Agreement did not say Zionism is going to be an ethnosupremacist state, it said:

it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine

Tell me, who were the people who designed the Israeli state. It wasn't the British, the British only determined whether or not Zionists were allowed to make their state. Israel was designed first and foremost by Zionists and thus it doesn't matter what they promised to Britian since, like you said, they lied about their intentions. Furthermore, the document in question did not say "Zionism wasn't going to be an ethnosupremacist state" it said that Israel wasn't going to be an ethnosupremacist state. Zionism has nothing to do with it.

Palestinians have no rights in prison Gaza and very few rights in the West Bank and East Jerusalem.

Do Palestinian Muslims see Palestinian Christians as less Palestinian than them? No, of course not. Do Palestinian Muslims believe that they deserve more rights than Palestinian Christians? No, of course not.

If this is the case, then, in Palestine, Palestinians believe they all deserve equal rights. Furthermore, in areas in which Palestinians do have control over their own destinies, Palestinians have never made laws which discriminate against non-Arabs or Muslims.

You don't seem to understand what my argument is.

Again, it was only Nethanyahu and his minions who consider Israel to be a Jewish state, since 2014. Nethanyahu also believes the country is democratic and he believed that long before 2014, is that true too because he and they say so?

The public also believe so. The Israeli Jewish population does not consider Israeli Arabs as citizens like themselves. They are considered foreigners or Palestinians, not Israelis.

Your guesswork, again, has nothing to do with what I said nor changes it: over a million Palestinians hold Israeli citizenship, meaning they are Israeli citizens.

It's not guesswork. I have been to Israel. I know how they're like. If you want proof other than my words, then you would know that a majority of Israelis support those discriminatory laws and, as I have posted before, post anti-Arab messages online every 48 seconds. This is not a society open to equal rights.

Also, like I said, just because they are citizens doesn't mean that they will be successful in removing those discriminatory laws because Israeli society itself considers them non-citizens. It does not matter whether or not they are citizens by law, what matters when politically advocating for equality or anything is what the general public you're trying to appeal to thinks. The Israeli general public, the sub-section of society you are trying to appeal to, is unwilling to entertain the idea of giving Palestinians equal rights.

There are non-Jews in the Knesset.

And how much influence do they have in the government? I assume they're there just to fill in quotas so they can say "hey, we're not that Jewish!" when in actuality the representatives hold no power.

Palestinians in Israel who have citizenship are still citizens, despite there being laws that discriminate against them for not being Jewish. I'm just saying what is.

You can say that, but that isn't argument for equal rights. If a Palestinian brought that argument to the government, they would all laugh at them because they don't give a shit about whether or not they're citizens. That doesn't matter to them.

[skinster]

There's a reason why they don't want it otherwise they would've given it to them in the first place.

Yes, those reasons are because zionists wanted/want all of the land. The peace negotiations were a facade that made it appear like zionists were willing to share the land as they were expected to; as international laws demands, etc.

Do Palestinian Muslims see Palestinian Christians as less Palestinian than them? No, of course not. Do Palestinian Muslims believe that they deserve more rights than Palestinian Christians? No, of course not.

That's not what I was arguing. I said Palestinians have no rights in Gaza and few in the occupied territories. It'd be nice if you responded to what I actually said, rather than what's floating around in your head / basically not what I said. I didn't mention anything about how Palestinians of different religions view themselves and each other, for instance. I stated facts about their lack of rights.

If this is the case, then, in Palestine, Palestinians believe they all deserve equal rights. Furthermore, in areas in which Palestinians do have control over their own destinies

Where are these areas?

You don't seem to understand what my argument is.

That's because you keep talking weird shit about things I haven't said.

The public also believe so. The Israeli Jewish population does not consider Israeli Arabs as citizens like themselves. They are considered foreigners or Palestinians, not Israelis.

I don't know why you keep obsessing over what zionists think. They think they live in a Western-style democracy too. Again, I was stating a fact and I'll state it again: there are over a million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship inside of what's known as Israel-proper, who have citizenship, despite laws that discriminate against them. Stop arguing with things I'm not saying or using zionist thought as your argument.

If you want proof other than my words, then you would know that a majority of Israelis support those discriminatory laws and...

I don't see any proof here, again, just words. And again, words that are arguing against something else that I didn't say. What I did say was, that over a million Palestinians in Israel hold citizenship.

The Israeli general public, the sub-section of society you are trying to appeal to, is unwilling to entertain the idea of giving Palestinians equal rights.

Not sure where you saw me trying to appeal to Israelis but okay. I was merely pointing out what is the reality on the ground, not my opinion of what zionists think or what I think. Again, that fact is: over a million Palestinians hold citizenship in Israel.

And how much influence do they have in the government?

I stated that there are non-Jews in the Knesset after you stated it had only Israeli Jews. This is a separate question, it wasn't what I was responding to. You keep moving off to the original point and then wonder why we're going around in circles. Maybe try to stick to what's said, rather than what's not said and if you disagree with what's said, prove it. Pro-tip: your opinion isn't proof.

You can say that, but that isn't argument for equal rights.

Me stating there are over a million Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenship is just that. I never claimed it was an argument for equal rights. You have a weird way of reading things.

[Drlee]

We have an entire thread, designed to make the so-called Palestinians look good based on a premise that could be simply stated:

"Well. At least a lot of them can read."

[Ter]

It is comical that @skinster and @Oxymandias are discussing the imminent demise of Israel as a Jewish Nation
I saw that the nonsense about half the Israeli GDP consisting of foreign grants is repeated even though proven totally wrong, among other nonsense.
Please proceed with your hilarious predictions and let's sit back and watch the news.

[layman]

Didn’t Israel nearly go bankrupt in the late 80s?

Now they have energy independence and are drawing high tech talent and rich investors from all over. All their major enemies are in turmoil or collapse. There is no evidence presented for a decline in power or wealth. Quite the opposite.

I’ll assume wishful thinking by some.

[Hong Wu]

Literacy is no longer much of a measuring stick.

[Oxymandias]

@Ter

It hasn't been proven wrong at all. Otherwise, show me your proof that it is wrong.

@Hong Wu

Oh what? No one is measuring anything here. I just posted this since it's a piece of positive news in Palestine. There isn't a lot of positive news in Palestine. The fact that you, @Drlee, and @Ter get your panties in such a twist whenever something positive about Palestine happens shows what your biases are.

@skinster

Yes, those reasons are because zionists wanted/want all of the land. The peace negotiations were a facade that made it appear like zionists were willing to share the land as they were expected to; as international laws demands, etc.

Of course they wanted all the land. However, there are other reasons why Israel doesn't want a sovereign Palestine which is the potential Palestine has.

That's not what I was arguing. I said Palestinians have no rights in Gaza and few in the occupied territories. It'd be nice if you responded to what I actually said, rather than what's floating around in your head / basically not what I said. I didn't mention anything about how Palestinians of different religions view themselves and each other, for instance. I stated facts about their lack of rights.

No, that was what I was arguing. My argument was that Palestinians view each other as equals and think that they, collectively, deserve better rights. You made no argument, you only misunderstood mine and ran with it.

Where are these areas?

Such as their own society and culture.

That's because you keep talking weird shit about things I haven't said.

I'm explaining my position. I am not debating yours. All this is merely just a clarification of my own ideas. This has nothing to do with you so I don't know why you are taking this so personally.

I don't know why you keep obsessing over what zionists think. They think they live in a Western-style democracy too. Again, I was stating a fact and I'll state it again: there are over a million Palestinians with Israeli citizenship inside of what's known as Israel-proper, who have citizenship, despite laws that discriminate against them. Stop arguing with things I'm not saying or using zionist thought as your argument.

That's because the people you want to give you equal rights and the only people who have the power and capabilities to give Palestinians equal rights are Zionists. That's my point. If you don't understand this, fine. I'll leave it but don't think I'm considering Zionist thought for no reason.

I don't see any proof here, again, just words. And again, words that are arguing against something else that I didn't say. What I did say was, that over a million Palestinians in Israel hold citizenship.

I'm not going to repost the same exact links I have given before. I am also sure that you know what I'm talking about. I don't think you have any illusions about what Israeli people actually believe.

I'm not arguing against you. I am clarifying my point and my position. The only concern I ever had with your thought was the fact that Palestinians would be given equal rights due to the fact that half of them are Israeli citizens when this has never been a reason why any population was given equal rights to the ruling one. America didn't abolish slavery because a majority of the population was black, they abolished it because they as a society recognized it's immorality and incompatibility with American values. This is not the case in Israel since not only does a majority of society consider the treatment of Palestinians to be a-ok, but it is compatible with Israeli values since one of the main purposes of Israel is to be a homeland for Jews and exclusively Jews.

Not sure where you saw me trying to appeal to Israelis but okay. I was merely pointing out what is the reality on the ground, not my opinion of what zionists think or what I think. Again, that fact is: over a million Palestinians hold citizenship in Israel.

I'm not saying you're trying to appeal to Jews. I am saying, when you're trying to get equal rights for Palestinians, you need to appeal to the ruling class (i.e. Israelis).

I stated that there are non-Jews in the Knesset after you stated it had only Israeli Jews. This is a separate question, it wasn't what I was responding to. You keep moving off to the original point and then wonder why we're going around in circles. Maybe try to stick to what's said, rather than what's not said and if you disagree with what's said, prove it. Pro-tip: your opinion isn't proof.

My point is that Palestinians getting equal rights in Israel is impossible with how current Israeli society operates and what it values. That is my point. That is what every single statement I have being making points to. I have not accused you of sympathizing with Israelis nor am I obsessed with how Zionists think. This has to do with this particular situation. I hope this has fixed our misunderstanding.

Me stating there are over a million Palestinians who hold Israeli citizenship is just that. I never claimed it was an argument for equal rights. You have a weird way of reading things.

I thought that we were discussing equal rights in Israel.