[maz]

This is a very interesting precedent that Israel is trying to set.

Israel fines New Zealand women $18,000 for urging Lorde concert boycott

An Israel court has ordered two New Zealand women to pay damages for harming the “artistic welfare” of three Israeli teenagers after the pop star Lorde cancelled a planned performance in Tel Aviv.

Judge Mirit Fohrer ruled that Justine Sachs and Nadia Abu-Shanab of New Zealand must pay damages to Israeli teenagers Shoshana Steinbach, Ayelet Wertzel and Ahuva Frogel totalling more than NZ$18,000 for writing a letter urging the singer to cancel her concert in Tel Aviv, the Jerusalem Post reports.

It is believed to be the first effective use of a 2011 Israeli law allowing civil lawsuits of anyone who encourages a boycott of Israel.

The Israeli teenagers claimed their “artistic welfare” was damaged because of the cancellation and that they suffered “damage to their good name as Israelis and Jews”.

It remained unclear whether the claimants would be able to collect the cash. Legal experts said the judgement was not automatically enforceable under New Zealand law, and the chance of the women being compelled to pay damages was unlikely as they were not in Israel when they wrote the open letter and did not participate in the court process in any way.

A spokesperson for the New Zealand ministry of foreign affairs said it would be up to the courts of New Zealand to decide whether the claim for damages was enforceable.

In December 2017 the Grammy winning New Zealand pop star Lorde cancelled her planned June 2018 concert in Tel Aviv after a social media campaign sparked by an open letter from Sachs and Abu-Shanab.

The lawsuit argued that Lorde’s response on Twitter after receiving the letter showed her decision was directly influenced by the New Zealand women’s plea.

[Rancid]

Wow, this is insane.

[Beren]

Sachs and Abu-Shanab may be lucky they don't live in Australia because the Aussie government would even extradite them to Israel and send a shipment of coal as further compensation too perhaps.

[Rancid]

Sachs and Abu-Shanab may be lucky they don't live in Australia because the Aussie government would even extradite them to Israel and send a shipment of coal as further compensation too perhaps.

How different are the Australian and New Zealand governments with respect to Israel?

[Beren]

How different are the Australian and New Zealand governments with respect to Israel?

I'm sure the Aussies would enforce Sachs and Abu-Shanab to pay, which may happen if they visit Australia.

[skinster]

What are you basing that on, Beren?

Anyway, this is dumb as shit and the girls have been told by lawyers that it is dumb as shit, just Israel trying to scare people into not supporting the BDS movement.

The girls are raising money though, for mental health services for the prisoners of Gaza.

[Beren]

What are you basing that on, Beren?

The servility of the Australian government. They are the real colonials, not the Americans.

[skinster]

Australia in recent years is dogshit when it comes to Israel, but even they wouldn't accept this dumb court case, imho. I don't know what you're basing your opinion on but it doesn't seem like there's been anything similar with the Australian government, to compare this with.

[Beren]

Australia in recent years is dogshit when it comes to Israel, but even they wouldn't accept this dumb court case, imho. I don't know what you're basing your opinion on but it doesn't seem like there's been anything similar with the Australian government, to compare this with.

I'm being half-serious here, but I wouldn't be surprised if my half-serious expectations turned out to be real someday.

[AFAIK]

I lost a lot of respect for Israel when I read about this.

[Ter]

The problem with this kind of court case is that at some stage in your life, you get entangled in American jurisdiction, like opening a bank account there or going on holiday somewhere in a country with friendly relations with Israel and suddenly they will be reminded of the outstanding amount.
If they stay safely in New Zealand nothing will happen to them. I think.

[Rich]

The problem with this kind of court case is that at some stage in your life, you get entangled in American jurisdiction, like opening a bank account there or going on holiday somewhere in a country with friendly relations with Israel and suddenly they will be reminded of the outstanding amount.

So what you're saying is her problem is the terrifying power of international Jewry in many countries but particularly the United States. Over and over and over we hear Jews gloating about their power and then they scream anti Semite when a non Jew just repeats only what they have said themselves.

Ter could you for once rather than just throwing around cheap insults, actually address the question of Jewish power and privilege. Start with why exactly Foreign Secretary Balfour sent a letter to a Jewish banker in the middle of war involving hundreds of millions of Muslims, promising the Jews Palestine when this had the potential to enrage those hundreds of millions of Muslims.

[Ter]

@Rich We know about your obsession with Jews but my post had nothing to do with Jews. If you have a legal problem in another country, you can be fine if you stay away from situations that make you vulnerable to it.

Let me give you an example. I knew a person who had a legal problem in country P. He did not face any consequences for years because he resided in a country that did not have an extradition treaty with country P. In fact, he travelled to several countries and had no problem at all. Until one day he went on holiday to a country called USA and that country had his name in the computer. He got arrested and extradited to country P, taken to court and sent to prison.

For the girls in New Zealand, it is only a question of money to be paid but they better not have any financial transactions with the USA or any country that might implement the Israeli court decision. As long as they live.

By the way, the Americans have complete control of all bank transactions through SWIFT. I arranged payment to one of my consultants with a wire transfer from Spain to Bangladesh and the money did not arrive. It took some time to find out that my consultant had the same name as someone on the American's watch list (it was a very common name here) and we had to provide birth dates and so on to free the money.

[maz]

For the girls in New Zealand, it is only a question of money to be paid but they better not have any financial transactions with the USA or any country that might implement the Israeli court decision. As long as they live.

But why would any nation system decide to implement Israel's court decision if not for Israel or some advocacy group telling them to do so?

[skinster]

Nothing is happening to these two girls in NZ because this lawsuit is beyond absurd, claiming trauma for a few Israeli girls that didn't get to see Lorde play after the singer cancelled her Israeli show after learning what a genocidal state apartheid Israel is. If Israel was able to sue activists like this, how come they're not suing the singers and bands who cancel too? Ter, can you explain that to me.

I lost a lot of respect for Israel when I read about this.

This is all it takes? Not the ongoing ethnic cleansing, dispossession, racism, child-torture, intermittent wars on a prison camp, the daylight murder of 200+ prisoner-protesters since March.

Interesting...

[ThirdTerm]

A spokesperson for the New Zealand ministry of foreign affairs said it would be up to the courts of New Zealand to decide whether the claim for damages was enforceable.

This Israeli law is not legal outside Israel, except for Israeli citizens living overseas. It's as queer as fining Kiwis for criticizing Putin, based on a court order issued in Russia. A spokesperson for the New Zealand ministry of foreign affairs said it would be up to New Zealand’s courts to decide whether the claim for damages was enforceable. Legal experts said it would not not be automatic and a new case would have to be launched in a New Zealand court seeking an enforcement of Israel’s ruling.

[skinster]

[Godstud]

Oh, FFS, it's a pop star. Perspective!!

[pugsville]

The servility of the Australian government. They are the real colonials, not the Americans.

The US is one place were ruling like this might be enforced.

Austrlia we're not there YET. Abbot the mad monk might have. ScoMo does not have spine is unlikely to make a stand for anything.

[Beren]

The US is one place were ruling like this might be enforced.

It might be enforced but not due to servility or colonial reflexes.