[Lightman]

[Crantag]

I was reading about the victims. I guess I am relieved they were elderly. I can’t wrap my mind around how he could see this group as representative of the supposed threat to him. He was frightened of a 97 year old?

No, try again.

He didn't feel threatened by them. He hates them.

The 97 year old could have been my grandma, if she didn't die 2 years ago. She was 94.

[Crantag]

Jews are only truly safe in their own Land, ironically, masters of their own destiny and not dependent on Non-Jews for their security or their daily bread. Jews need to come out of the Exile and Return to the Holy Land. What they do after that, God will guide them I pray.

You have lost it.

You need to return to communism, and reject Christian conservatism, or whatever that was on about.

[SolarCross]

Jews are only truly safe in their own Land, ironically, masters of their own destiny and not dependent on Non-Jews for their security or their daily bread. Jews need to come out of the Exile and Return to the Holy Land. What they do after that, God will guide them I pray.

Jews are safe enough amongst pagans, hindus, buddhists, taoists etc. They mainly pick up prejudice from Christians because many, if not all, Christians paradoxically blame them for JC's transformation from a man into a god via crucifiction and especially amongst muslims because muslims have scriptual hatred for everything not-muslim which obviously includes, but is not limited to, jews.

The safest place for jews would be india and the far east because the Holy Land is swarming with muslims.

[annatar1914]

You have lost it.

You need to return to communism, and reject Christian conservatism, or whatever that was on about.

Relax Crantag; that post I made was a mockery or lampoon of the reflexive and entirely emotional "thinking" of the so-called ''Christian Conservatives'', I was trolling what I expect to be hearing from a substantial portion of the American population the identify as Christians. Two points to consider;

1. I am an Orthodox Christian, and in fact hold very traditional views that would be regarded as ''Christian Conservative'' but to me are simply sanity and rationality.

2. I am a Socialist, and as such see it as the rational development of Christian thinking, again, sanity and rationality.

3. ''Israel'' is a Zionist political entity I believe, and not legitimate in any spiritual sense, while the true Israel, heir to the promises of God, in my opinion is the Israel of God, the Orthodox Christian faithful.

Hope that clarifies the matter.

[colliric]

Jews are safe enough amongst pagans, hindus, buddhists, taoists etc. They mainly pick up prejudice from Christians because many, if not all, Christians paradoxically blame them for JC's transformation from a man into a god via crucifiction.

Don't dance around the bush,

The Sanhedrin betrayed(to the Roman Goyim) and murdered Jesus. The Religion of Judaism in large part generally hopes for the Sanhedrin(and another Temple & candidate for the Messiah) to return.

Both religions are a bit nutty. A large number of Jews wonder why Christians are upset at discussion of the Sanhedrin, Messiah and a third Temple because they are sadly uneducated about other people's beliefs. If they were more educated, and Christians in turn more forgiving to them(as Jesus wanted), the religions would get along much better.

[SolarCross]

Don't dance around the bush,

The Sanhedrin betrayed(to the Roman Goyim) and murdered Jesus. The Religion of Judaism in large part generally hopes for the Sanhedrin(and another Temple & candidate for the Messiah) to return.

Both religions are a bit nutty. A large number of Jews woder why Christians are upset at discussion of the Sanhedrin, Messiah and a third Temple because they are sadly uneducated about other people's beliefs. If they were more educated, and Christians in turn more forgiving to them(as Jesus wanted), the religions would get along much better.

Meh, I don't doubt you Christians believe you have your reasons but it remains if you aren't an Christian, or muslim, you have basically no theological reason to hate jews. They never killed any of my gods.

[colliric]

I wasn't telling you off. I was clarifying. I agreed with your statement.

But your statement was too general.

[Negotiator]

You can't have it both ways.

Uh yes I can be against violence and also be against violence. There is no logical contradiction whatsoever in being appalled by an attack and being against gun laws.

The logic "the only way to defend yourself against weapons in the hand of the public is MORE weapons in the hands of the public" is YOUR "logic", not mine.

[Negotiator]

There are 393 million civilian owned guns in the US. 392,999,999 were not used in this attack. Why would you want to punish their owners for this?

You talk as if weapons would be their babies or something.

[One Degree]

You talk as if weapons would be their babies or something.

Many people refer to their weapons as just that. Barney Fife may be who made it popular.
But, thanks for the comparison without a purpose.
Would you suggest all people have their cars taken away because occasionally we have some nutcase head down the interstate in the wrong direction?

[B0ycey]

Uh yes I can be against violence and also be against violence. There is no logical contradiction whatsoever in being appalled by an attack and being against gun laws.

The logic "the only way to defend yourself against weapons in the hand of the public is MORE weapons in the hands of the public" is YOUR "logic", not mine.

Perhaps reread the post again. You're mistaken on my logic.

[Negotiator]

Would you suggest all people have their cars taken away because occasionally we have some nutcase head down the interstate in the wrong direction?

Cars are made for transportation.

Guns are made for killing.

Why do I have to explain this difference ?

[Hong Wu]

Cars are made for transportation.

Guns are made for killing.

Why do I have to explain this difference ?

I tried this in another thread but no one bit. Right now there's 1 gun for every 7 people in the world and the guns are pretty concentrated into certain areas. Some of these guns last for decades and are being produced pretty quickly.

More fun statistics: up to 10,000 people are born each day in the US, guns kill an average of 36 people a day in the US.

In a place where there is a saturation of guns, is it reasonable to expect gun control to work? The Brazilians seem to have decided that it isn't, anyway.

[One Degree]

Cars are made for transportation.

Guns are made for killing.

Why do I have to explain this difference ?

I could not quickly find a more comprehensive list, but neither cars or guns are in the top 12 for deaths in the US. I will have to guess cars still kill more people than guns and there are 40 million more guns. So it doesn’t really matter the main purpose for their manufacture. It matters which is more deadly to humans.

[Pants-of-dog]

Another terrorist attack by a right wing man.

[B0ycey]

In a place where there is a saturation of guns, is it reasonable to expect gun control to work? The Brazilians seem to have decided that it isn't, anyway.

Yes. You cannot expect guns to be destroyed or criminals to not use them. But by having laws prohibiting there use, you give law enforcement the power to remove them when found and prevent shops from legally selling ammunition. Change might be slow, but just creating more arms just means more guns to shoot from. Not less shootings.

[One Degree]

Since we all love statistics, it seems strange we are so afraid of someone else killing us when we are much more likely to kill ourselves.
Anyway, last comment by me on this tangent. My conscience tells me it is disrespectful in this thread.

[Pants-of-dog]

Right wing terrorism by white guys is increasing.

One of the possible reasons for this is that society right now does not censure or openly disapprove of the vitriol and dehumanising that these guys do. In the USA, they even elected someone like that to their highest office.

On PoFo, we have more than one thread active right now where right wing white guys can openly vent their disdain for anyone who is different, like Jews or immigrants or women.

Now these guys are adopting ISIS style tactics and enacting violence despite not being part of a terrorist organization.

[skinster]

What a horrible attack. I wonder when these rightwing terrorist scumbags will figure it out to aim at those at the top, those who have actual power.

Trump’s election has unleashed all kinds of festering pathologies, not least the zombie-plague of antisemitism which led to the brutal murder yesterday of a number of Jews in Pittsburgh. The killer blamed Jews for bringing Muslims into the US as one of the reasons for his rampage.

First, this is a new version of a very old story: Jews as puppet-masters, Jews as Bolsheviks, Jews as Communists, Jews as allies of the oppressed, Jews as supporters of the Black struggle, Jews as importers of the red plague into Western Europe/US “civilization,” Jews tainting alabaster Euro-American Christianity, Jews as the fifth column within. These days, and with plenty of encouragement from Trump, Jews as the master-figure behind a globalist regime, or Jews-as-foundation-masters or Jews-as-owners-of-US-foreign policy is the slight sanitized version of these Nazi myths.

Second, let us not forget for one moment that Trump is not a unique aberration of the US political system. Trump is the current figurehead of a capitalist, racist, colonial, and, yes, imperialist regime, and political antisemitism festers as part of the larger system within which it is embedded. Antisemitism, like any bigotry, is a political vocabulary, a map, but also an ideology. It is how some make sense of the current terrain. If someone does not share the analysis that America as a project has no clean soul, that the rot was inherent in the original project, they may pick up garbage ideas such as that of external corrupting forces.

Third, more and more people will pick up on such ideas as the myth of an inclusive order collapses around them. The collapse of that myth reflects the collapse of the socio-economic order which that myth defended. The rise of US and European political antisemitism, as part-and-parcel of the rise of a hard-right politics, cannot be separated from the breakdown of the corporatist or social democratic regimes in the EU-US. The breakdown of those regimes has occurred with Democrats or Social Democrats at the helm.

Fourth, make no mistake that Israel is cozying up everywhere to these regimes. Trump himself is enormously popular in Israel, his antisemitic dog-whistles not only notwithstanding, but let be also very clear, at the root of a Zionist ideology which had nothing but contempt for Bolshevism, Communism, and the old world of poor European Jewry, whether that world took refuge in Das Capital or the Torah.

Fifth, on two fronts the refugee issue is being de-politicized. On the one hand, we ought to be very clear that the same Zionist foundations which support the creation of Palestinian and other Arab refugees, may very well support their resettlement in the US. To give with one hand and take with the other is the very essence of humanitarianism.

Sixth, it is disquieting to see the refugee issue de-politicized and separated from the US order which created the refugee problem in the first place. The refugees that synagogue was helping are the fruit of bi-partisan US policies. A country which is capable of turning Yemeni children into skeletons is a country whose racism is bone-deep. A country with a deep problem of racism is a country which will eventually produce the monster who murdered Jews yesterday in Pittsburgh.

Finally, then, let us be clear about the stakes of yesterday’s massacre. We – and who we are is a decision made at the level of organization, not just birth – can respond to such attacks by accepting the solidarity of those who claim to be our comrades but will then inflict famine on Yemen, or we can say, no thanks, a safe world is a world with room for everyone. I will go with the second option.