Pakistan frees Christian woman on death row for blasphemy - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#14960920
@Oxymandias Makes a fair point, Pakistani government did try to prohibit this women from being executed. How much is this due to international awareness of this incident or actual attempt to try to prevent her execution based on their own sense we will not know. As this type of persecution of religious minorities has been going on for a long time in Pakistan. Although there has been people who sacrificed their lives so this women might live does speak volumes.

In the end what is obvious is that hardline Muslim faction within Pakistan has subverted the government and forced it to change course. This seems to be the story of Islam throughout the world that the religious hardliners are winning within those countries and communities. Unless they are kept under the lid by harsh force like we saw in Egypt recently after the Arab Spring.
#14960932
Oxymandias wrote:Dude, Iran's Shia and Pakistan's Sunni. Pakistan wants Iran gone. You just took my words out of context and made assumptions based on them. All I am saying is that the government was being responsible by not killing off the poor lady. Do you want her dead?


I am aware of the Shia / Sunni feud. They are killing each other about an interpretation about something something that happened so long ago. At least it keeps their attention away from other things :)

And indeed, the Pakistan Government protected that woman.
But it is people of Pakistan that want to rip her to pieces.
Those are dangerous people. Morons in fact.
I read in a local newspaper that an old man here in Bangladesh was killed when a rumour started that he was using pages from the quran as toilet paper.
And whatever I wrote about similarities between Iran and Pakistan is correct.
#14960953
@Ter

I am aware of the Shia / Sunni feud. They are killing each other about an interpretation about something something that happened so long ago. At least it keeps their attention away from other things :)


It isn't about an interpretation. It is primarily about politics. Sunnis elected the Caliph democratically through the Majils-ash-Shura while the Shias thought Muhammad made Ali his heir. However, eventually under the reign of Umayya, the Caliphate turned into a monarchy with Sunnis supporting it resulting in the support of two different dynasties that have been long gone. But it is no longer just about political differences, it's about theology as well. Through being separated from on another and thriving in different environments, the theology of Sunnis and Shias changed. I'm not going to go into how because you probably don't care though.

But it is people of Pakistan that want to rip her to pieces.
Those are dangerous people. Morons in fact.


It's called radicalization. For most of it's history Pakistan has been ruled by oppressive military governments and a majority people were homeless and starving. Many families, unable to support their children, sent them to madrasahs (public Islamic schools) where they were fed, given an education, shelter, and, often, jobs. Madrasahs and Islam were there for them at their most vulnerable while the government was not. Whatever good the madrasahs did, it did lead to a higher emphasis on Islam and given how many madrasahs were local, their versions of Islam adapted to local customs and superstitions. And, given how things haven't gotten better in Pakistan, this has led to radicalization which we see now.

And whatever I wrote about similarities between Iran and Pakistan is correct.


It's the opposite. Government stupid, people smart.

I read in a local newspaper that an old man here in Bangladesh was killed when a rumour started that he was using pages from the quran as toilet paper.


Yeah blasphemy laws are stupid. The founders of Pakistan are probably rolling in their graves. The founders of Pakistan were actually atheists who were just "culturally Muslim".
#14960954
@Albert

I think Shia Islam is more about Persian identity. Being one of the oldest nations on earth one does not really wish to associate with Arabs or let them conquer Persia. So they opted for their own version of Islam.


Persia became only Shia during the 16th century. It wasn't Shia for decades.

However you are right that Shi'ism has become a part of Persian identity though.
#14960998
skinster wrote:Are you a moron?


Why are you being so defensive?

Why are you always so mean to me? :?:

I never make the suggestion that I think you're a moron/idiot/whatever.

Just remember, whenever you show anger at me, you're really just angry with yourself.
#14961150
@Albert

In the end what is obvious is that hardline Muslim faction within Pakistan has subverted the government and forced it to change course. This seems to be the story of Islam throughout the world that the religious hardliners are winning within those countries and communities. Unless they are kept under the lid by harsh force like we saw in Egypt recently after the Arab Spring.


I have already told why this is happening at all. People don't trust their government and adopted local forms of Islam. The entire reason why this Christian was being persecuted in the first place was because she drank from a metal cup that is also used by Muslims to drink and, under the South Asian caste system which Islam integrated itself in (since Islam adjusts itself to local conditions), this is bad because Christians are seen as unclean or belonging to a lower caste.

Also Arab Spring was a secular movement you freaking idiot. Islamism in Egypt has little to do with Islam and more to do with distrust in the government and bad qualities of life.

@Oxymandias Makes a fair point, Pakistani government did try to prohibit this women from being executed. How much is this due to international awareness of this incident or actual attempt to try to prevent her execution based on their own sense we will not know. As this type of persecution of religious minorities has been going on for a long time in Pakistan. Although there has been people who sacrificed their lives so this women might live does speak volumes.


Asia Bibi's case happened 17 years ago. It's only getting international attention after her lawyer fled and protests were being made. The persecution is due the the caste system that's present in all South Asian societies.
#14961154
Oxymandias wrote:It's called radicalization. For most of it's history Pakistan has been ruled by oppressive military governments and a majority people were homeless and starving. Many families, unable to support their children, sent them to madrasahs (public Islamic schools) where they were fed, given an education, shelter, and, often, jobs. Madrasahs and Islam were there for them at their most vulnerable while the government was not. Whatever good the madrasahs did, it did lead to a higher emphasis on Islam and given how many madrasahs were local, their versions of Islam adapted to local customs and superstitions. And, given how things haven't gotten better in Pakistan, this has led to radicalization which we see now.


The psycho extremist version of Islam imposed on the people of Pakistan was pushed in by Saudi Arabia. The Saudis have forced their perverted version of Islam all over the world, particularly poor countries. The same Saudis have been getting away with for decades whle being bumchums with the West and Israel, neither of which have anything to say about such radicalization even though it's been common knowledge to anyone paying attention, because it doesn't really bother them. I could go so far and say that they probably prefer it.

Rancid wrote:Why are you being so defensive?

Why are you always so mean to me? :?:

I never make the suggestion that I think you're a moron/idiot/whatever.

Just remember, whenever you show anger at me, you're really just angry with yourself.


I'm not being defensive, I'm telling you to stop being a moron. In what world does me calling out racist zionists ITT pretending to care about Pakistan in any sense, equating to me supporting the execution of the Pakistani woman? Would me supporting her execution for blasphemy be consistent with anything else I say here? Exactly. Maybe try a couple of minutes of thinking before directing this dumb shit at me and I won't say anything mean in return. :D
#14961187
skinster wrote:I'm not being defensive, I'm telling you to stop being a moron. In what world does me calling out racist zionists ITT pretending to care about Pakistan in any sense, equating to me supporting the execution of the Pakistani woman? Would me supporting her execution for blasphemy be consistent with anything else I say here? Exactly. Maybe try a couple of minutes of thinking before directing this dumb shit at me and I won't say anything mean in return. :D


lol@you.
#14961194
@skinster

I disagree. Pakistan may be partial to the culture of Arab countries but that does not necessarily mean that Saudi Arabia is responsible for it's extremism. Wahhabism is actually not that common of a Islamic sect in Pakistan. The issue is the fact that the government has abandoned Pakistanis and they only have local madrasahs to turn to. Most of this generation of Pakistanis were raised in these madrasahs. It is for this reason that many are radicalized.

@Albert

I know Arab Spring was secular in nature. I'm talking about the aftermath of it. In Egypt for example the elections were won by Muslim Brotherhood who increasingly became authoritarian hence the military coup that brought them out of power.


That's not what happened at all. Egypt's elections were rigged and the current government is in cahoots with the Muslim Brotherhood. They're one of the same.
#14961200
Oxymandias wrote:I disagree. Pakistan may be partial to the culture of Arab countries but that does not necessarily mean that Saudi Arabia is responsible for it's extremism. Wahhabism is actually not that common of a Islamic sect in Pakistan. The issue is the fact that the government has abandoned Pakistanis and they only have local madrasahs to turn to. Most of this generation of Pakistanis were raised in these madrasahs. It is for this reason that many are radicalized.


Saudi Arabia has spent billions exporting Wahabi Islam all over the world, including Pakistan. That's the shit you'll get in those madrasahs.
#14961218
@skinster

Like I said, very few people in Pakistan are Wahhabis. It's simply not a compelling ideology for them. Furthermore, Saudi Arabia does not fund local madrasahs. In the case of Pakistan, it funds larger and institutionalized madrasahs to spread it's view, not local ones which conform to local customs.

Wahhabism does not advocate for a caste system like what Pakistanis here are defending and so doesn't Islam. This is a product of Pakistan's culture and it's history of being originally Hindu before Islam integrated itself into that social structure (like it does everywhere else it reaches).

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