[Albert]

It is really fascinating to me, I honestly would not mind living in such society to see how it is. It sound awesome.

[Deutschmania]

I am somewhat surprised and alarmed at just how eager some would be to accept such a system of totalitarian state domination . More than bureaucratic collectivism , this is more like Borg collectivism . Not simply big government , but Big Brother government . The Chinese Communist Party has seemingly already become like , and the United Socialist Party of Venezuela is increasingly becoming like IngSoc . Whether one is strictly secular , and is influenced by 1984 , by George Orwell

, or is a Christian and is going by the Book of Revelation , such as this film I saw as a teenager is interpretively based upon

, this is some troubling development . I mean , if such power were to fall into the wrong hands , such as some tyrannical megalomaniac , any revolutionary resistance would be rendered virtually futile . Even if you believe that Nicolas Maduro really does have benevolent intentions , and is not an anti-Christ , or would be autocrat , just imagine what the potential consequences would be if someone like say Donald Trump were to utilize such a system . Already there is in place the Real I.D. Act , and Pres. Trump already has stated that he believes that photo I.D. is required to purchase grocery items . https://apnews.com/86bbb02de5e249eba482c4d2fb651120 , https://www.newsweek.com/donald-trump-photo-id-buy-groceries-1050847 . But yet , in spite of such dystopian apocalyptic stories which appear to parallel real life events , a number of people across the political spectrum , left and right alike , would supposedly go along with it . I would have expected such world leaders to be denounced as being the Beast , or Big Brother , but incredibly this does not altogether seem to be the case , by and large . Oh , and by the way , just as evangelicals have on the whole come to rally behind Trump , in Venezuela , a Christian right party the Authentic Renewal Organization, has joined Maduro's Great Patriotic Pole . Go figure . As for me , I shall steadfastly support the democratic socialism of such parties as La Causa Radical in opposition to such a totalitarian approach to technological utopianism , masquerading as Marxism .

[Sivad]

From the Chinese government Plan for Implementation, the SCS is due to be fully implemented by 2020. Once implemented the system will manage the rewards, or punishments, of citizens on the basis of their economic and personal behavior. Some types of punishments include: flight ban, exclusion from private schools, slow internet connection, exclusion from high prestige work, exclusion from hotels, and registration on a public blacklist.
Travel ban

By May 2018, several million flight and high-speed train trips had been denied. The people denied were on a blacklist. The exact reasons for people being placed on the list are unknown. Business Insider speculated that the reason could be the debtors list created by the SPC.[10]
Exclusion from private schools

If the parents of a child score below a certain threshold, their children would be excluded from top schools in the region.[28]
Social status

One's personal score could be used as a social symbol on social and couples platforms. For example, China's biggest matchmaking service, Baihe, already allows its users to publish their own score.[29]
Other

The rewards of having a high score include easier access to loans and jobs and priority during bureaucratic paperwork. Likewise, the immediate negative consequences for a low score, or being associated to someone with a low score, ranges from lower internet speeds to being denied access to certain jobs, loans and visas.[30][31][32]

The system has been implicated in a number of controversies. Of particular note is how it is applied to individuals as well as companies. People have already faced various punishments for violating social protocols. The system has been used to already block nine million people with "low scores" from purchasing domestic flights.[34] While still in the preliminary stages, the system has been used to ban people and their children from certain schools, prevent low scorers from renting hotels, using credit cards, and blacklist individuals from being able to procure employment.[34] The system has also been used to rate individuals on their internet habits (excessive online gaming reduces one's score), personal shopping habits, and a variety of other personal and wholly innocuous acts that have no impact on the wider community.[35] Criticism of this program has been widespread with the proposed system being described by Human Rights Watch as "chilling" and filled with arbitrary abuses.[35]

Vision Times labeled the system as a mass surveillance tool and mass disciplinary machine.


Comparison to other countries

United Kingdom

In 2018, the New Economics Foundation compared the Chinese citizen score to other rating systems in the United Kingdom. These included using data from a citizen's credit score, phone usage, rent payment, etc. to filter job applications, determine access to social services, determine advertisements served, etc.[37][38]

Germany

In February 2018, Handelsblatt Global reported that Germany may be "sleep walking" towards a system comparable to China's. Using data from the universal credit rating system, Schufa, geolocation and health records to determine access to credit and health insurance.

[Oxymandias]

We are watching the creation of a world dystopia of Oligarchy with absolute power and the only ones opposing it are being called Nazis. The supporters of the dystopia believe they are freedom fighters.

That's because most people who are called Nazis are usually supporting the establishment under the guise of being "revolutionary" or "anti-PC".

[Deutschmania]

From the Chinese government Plan for Implementation, the SCS is due to be fully implemented by 2020. Once implemented the system will manage the rewards, or punishments, of citizens on the basis of their economic and personal behavior. Some types of punishments include: flight ban, exclusion from private schools, slow internet connection, exclusion from high prestige work, exclusion from hotels, and registration on a public blacklist.
Travel ban

By May 2018, several million flight and high-speed train trips had been denied. The people denied were on a blacklist. The exact reasons for people being placed on the list are unknown. Business Insider speculated that the reason could be the debtors list created by the SPC.[10]
Exclusion from private schools

If the parents of a child score below a certain threshold, their children would be excluded from top schools in the region.[28]
Social status

One's personal score could be used as a social symbol on social and couples platforms. For example, China's biggest matchmaking service, Baihe, already allows its users to publish their own score.[29]
Other

The rewards of having a high score include easier access to loans and jobs and priority during bureaucratic paperwork. Likewise, the immediate negative consequences for a low score, or being associated to someone with a low score, ranges from lower internet speeds to being denied access to certain jobs, loans and visas.[30][31][32]

The system has been implicated in a number of controversies. Of particular note is how it is applied to individuals as well as companies. People have already faced various punishments for violating social protocols. The system has been used to already block nine million people with "low scores" from purchasing domestic flights.[34] While still in the preliminary stages, the system has been used to ban people and their children from certain schools, prevent low scorers from renting hotels, using credit cards, and blacklist individuals from being able to procure employment.[34] The system has also been used to rate individuals on their internet habits (excessive online gaming reduces one's score), personal shopping habits, and a variety of other personal and wholly innocuous acts that have no impact on the wider community.[35] Criticism of this program has been widespread with the proposed system being described by Human Rights Watch as "chilling" and filled with arbitrary abuses.[35]

Vision Times labeled the system as a mass surveillance tool and mass disciplinary machine.


Comparison to other countries

United Kingdom

In 2018, the New Economics Foundation compared the Chinese citizen score to other rating systems in the United Kingdom. These included using data from a citizen's credit score, phone usage, rent payment, etc. to filter job applications, determine access to social services, determine advertisements served, etc.[37][38]

Germany

In February 2018, Handelsblatt Global reported that Germany may be "sleep walking" towards a system comparable to China's. Using data from the universal credit rating system, Schufa, geolocation and health records to determine access to credit and health insurance.

While it might not be as overreaching as some , including myself , have initially feared , I still am concerned that without proper due process safeguards in place , there might be the potential for abuse . https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3175792 , https://foreignpolicy.com/2018/11/16/chinas-orwellian-social-credit-score-isnt-real/amp/?__twitter_impression=true . At the same time , with all that being said , I do recognize the importance of official documentation , and identification . I just have reservations about the creation of an all encompassing central database , over such issues as data security , and privacy . But I also do not wish to rush to judgement , and would be opposed to any interventionist wars in response to this .

[Code Rood]

of course two dictatorships searching for a better way to control their

but if this shit will pass there it will be implemented in the west aswell. this must not be allowed

You act as if there's privacy in the Western countries. The only place where you may have privacy is in the bathroom. Just because ''it doesn't happen so openly'' like in China, doesn't mean that they don't know everything about you. They have cameras everywhere in places like the UK. Most people are stupid or are too weak to actually stand up for themselves and their loved ones, and would gladly embrace something like the social credit system, because it's being portrayed as cool and convenient. And of course, they would finally ''feel safe''. People who put safety above freedom, deserve neither.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Trump Recognizes Guaido as Venezuela Leader, Challenging Maduro
Fuck off Maduro
down with socialism

President Donald Trump recognized Juan Guaido as the interim president of Venezuela minutes after the opposition leader declared himself the head of state, in the U.S.’s most provocative move yet against the leftist regime of Nicolas Maduro.

Guaido, 35, is the president of the Venezuela National Assembly, which Maduro doesn’t recognize.

“In its role as the only legitimate branch of government duly elected by the Venezuelan people, the National Assembly invoked the country’s constitution to declare Nicolas Maduro illegitimate, and the office of the presidency therefore vacant,” Trump said in a statement. “The people of Venezuela have courageously spoken out against Maduro and his regime and demanded freedom and the rule of law.”

Shortly before Trump’s statement, Guaido said in a webcast from a protest in Caracas that he would assume the powers of the Venezuela presidency. He invoked a constitutional amendment that allows for the head of the legislature to lead a caretaker government until new elections can be held.

Read our Life in Caracas series here.

Since taking the helm of the legislature on Jan. 5, Guaido has aggressively pushed the military and the international community to recognize him as the rightful head of state.

“I swear to formally assume the powers of the national executive as interim president of Venezuela to achieve the end of the usurpation,” Guaido said on stage in East Caracas before thousands of Venezuelans who rallied around him on Wednesday. The crowd cheered and sang Venezuela’s national anthem after Guaido took the oath.

The U.S. has steadily expanded economic sanctions and denunciations of Maduro since Trump took office, all but urging that Venezuelans overturn their government. Venezuela’s dollar bonds, which have gained 25 percent on average this year, rallied further on Wednesday as the opposition increased pressure on Maduro. While most of Venezuela’s bonds are in default, investors believe regime change could usher in plans to fix the economy and restructure the debt.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... -president

[skinster]

[Zionist Nationalist]

Nice company (gang) you have there
Putin,Maduro,Erdogan

and than you go and preach about human rights while these guys that you support are the worst human right abusers so hypocrite of you
Is there anyone still taking you seriously here?
aside from the socialist nutjobs

[Rancid]

Nice company (gang) you have there
Putin,Maduro,Erdogan

and than you go and preach about human rights while these guys that you support are the worst human right abusers so hypocrite of you
Is there anyone still taking you seriously here?
aside from the socialist nutjobs

Other Latin American nations have also come out to not recognize Maduro. If I were a Latin American nation I would do the same. At this point it's not good to have such an unstable country in your back yard.

[Deutschmania]

Nice company (gang) you have there
Putin,Maduro,Erdogan

and than you go and preach about human rights while these guys that you support are the worst human right abusers so hypocrite of you
Is there anyone still taking you seriously here?
aside from the socialist nutjobs

Even a number of left leaning political figures in Venezuela have turned against Maduro https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2016/07/21/in-venezuela-opposition-gets-more-assertive-against-maduro/#6958b80c39c1 . The Democratic Unity Roundtable contains a number of left oriented parties among its constituent parties .

[skinster]

Is there anyone still taking you seriously here?

I was amused mostly that this came from a zionist. A gentile zionist.

[Rancid]

If I were the US, one thing I would do is freeze the accounts of all the underlings of Maduro. Basically tell them "I'll unfreeze the accounts once you change allegiance"

I'm sure it's doable, most of the underlings of any power structure, most especially an authoritarian power structure are usually just in it for themselves. If you can offer them a way to survive under the new government, they would likely do it. It's a myth that a dictator has all the power. They only have power when their underlings are loyal, so if you can break that loyalty, that's the key. The way to break the loyalty is to offer better rewards than the current leader. It could be monetary, power, influence, etc. etc. In this case the incentive would be that they all get to keep the riches they gained under Maduro.

I've been thinking about this situation more, and I do want to see the government flip to a more western friendly & Latin American friendly government. I think it's important to keep Chinese influence out of Latin America. I think it would do more damage than American influence.

My Venezuelan friends in Miami would like to see this change as well.

[AFAIK]

I watched a news report that featured a human rights lawyer who had failed to pay a court mandated fine and now couldn't use high speed trains or private schools. In most countries those who violate court orders are sent to prison so it appears China is being progressive by pursuing alternative methods of punishment. Another news report featured someone who was working to rehabilitate their score who supported the system as an effective form of discipline so it's amusing to see foreigners struggle to paint this as a dystopian development and post stawmen from TV shows like Black Mirror, ITT.

I remember some politician suggesting that corrupt banksters shouldn't be allowed to travel on first class flights so I guess that's the western version of this along with intrusive paperwork and drug testing for poor people in need of gov't assistance.

[Rancid]

I watched a news report that featured a human rights lawyer who had failed to pay a court mandated fine and now couldn't use high speed trains or private schools. In most countries those who violate court orders are sent to prison so it appears China is being progressive by pursuing alternative methods of punishment. Another news report featured someone who was working to rehabilitate their score who supported the system as an effective form of discipline

Why would China some how be progressive to nations it does business with or colonize? There are many things in teh US that are progressive, and the US doesn't give a shit to afford those same rights or progressive norms to the countries it colonizes or does business with.

[Patrickov]

I watched a news report that featured a human rights lawyer who had failed to pay a court mandated fine and now couldn't use high speed trains or private schools. In most countries those who violate court orders are sent to prison so it appears China is being progressive by pursuing alternative methods of punishment. Another news report featured someone who was working to rehabilitate their score who supported the system as an effective form of discipline so it's amusing to see foreigners struggle to paint this as a dystopian development and post stawmen from TV shows like Black Mirror, ITT.

I remember some politician suggesting that corrupt banksters shouldn't be allowed to travel on first class flights so I guess that's the western version of this along with intrusive paperwork and drug testing for poor people in need of gov't assistance.

While the method itself is workable on certain situations, China has clearly abused it by using it on a human rights lawyer, possibly as part of a political persecution.

You should know better as you use Ai Weiwei of all people as your avatar.

[AFAIK]

They used it to avoid sending someone to prison so it's an improvement on the status quo i.e. progressive.