[anarchist23]

[center-img]http://i66.tinypic.com/2jbnme0.jpg[/center-img]

Ukraine's navy says Russia has opened fire and seized three of its vessels off the coast of the annexed Crimea, in a major escalation of tensions.
It said two gunboats and a tug were captured by Russian special forces after a chase. Two Ukrainian crew members were injured.
Russia is yet to comment on the claims.
It earlier accused Ukraine of illegally entering Russian waters, blocking access to the Sea of Azov with a tanker put under a bridge in the Kerch Strait.
■ Eastern Ukraine: A new, bloody chapter
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Tensions have risen in the seas off the Crimean peninsula - annexed by Russia in 2014 - in recent months.
In a statement, the Ukrainian navy said the Berdyansk and the Nikopol gunboats were hit and disabled as they tried to leave the area.
It said the tug was forced to stop.
Russia earlier scrambled two fighter jets and two helicopters to monitor the Ukrainian vessels.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-46338671


edit:

A group of Ukrainian Navy ships that were approaching the Kerch Strait lying between Crimea and mainland Russia have retraced their course and are returning to their ports, the Russian Federal Security Service (FSB) said.
This group departed from the Ukrainian port of Berdyansk on the Azov sea to the east of Crimea straight around 11.30 Moscow Time (08.30 GMT) on Sunday and set a course for the Kerch Strait. A few hours before that another group of vessels entered Russian territorial waters from the west Crimea. They hadn't made proper application for passing through the Kerch Strait. They refused to follow orders from the Russian Border Guard vessels.

The video released by Russian authorities show border guard ships pursuing Ukrainian vessels that maneuvered dangerously close to them.
The Ukrainian Navy said that its vessels were sailing as part of a scheduled routine transfer, at some point, adding that it warned the Russian authorities about it in advance. The Ukrainian military also accused Russian border guards of firing at their ships and seizing three of them.

https://www.rt.com/news/444852-ukraine- ... zov-kerch/

[Eauz]

They're in Russian territory so what do you expect? The Ukranian navy should be a candidate for the Darwin Awards.

[Ter]

Ukraine started this by seizing a fishing boat from Crimea.
But they do not mention this in any headline news of course.
Ukraine are a bunch of losers.

[Beren]

So what's going on in the Black Sea, state piracy? Well, that's how illiberal states work anyway. I wonder if Erdogan can stay out of this.

[JohnRawls]

So what's going on in the Black Sea, state piracy? Well, that's how illiberal states work anyway. I wonder if Erdogan can stay out of this.

As Ter said, Ukranian ships violated Russian water, passed the Kerch straight although they were warned not to do it and then as soon as Russia scuttled planes, gunships and patrol boats of their own, Ukranian boats turned back and tried to run away but the Russian ships caught them.

Now, technically Ukraine was in Ukranian waters if you consider Crimea part of Ukraine. But de Facto it is Russian, so the Russians did what they are supposed to do in this kind of situation.

Not to mention Kerch straight is a heavily defended place because they recently built a bridge there and are afraid of sabotage so....

[Beren]

Sure, @JohnRawls, and Ukraine signed up for some bullying anyway when they broke up with Russia, didn't they?

[JohnRawls]

Sure, @JohnRawls, and Ukraine signed up for some bullying anyway when they broke up with Russia, didn't they?

In all honesty, yes. You do not poke the bear and expect to come out unharmed. It is always better to have a cooperative relationship with your neibhours, especially if they have a far bigger stick than you.

[Beren]

You do not poke the bear and expect to come out unharmed.

You mean you just can't escape the bear's embrace against its will unharmed.

[layman]

Russia had its pupppets on the Ukrainian throne for many years.

People have double standards when it comes to Russia. They have duped the world into seeing them as some kind of peaceful victim of history.

[JohnRawls]

You mean you just can't escape the bear's embrace against its will unharmed.

Yes you can. You just ally yourself to somebody who has a similar or a bigger stick. That is it. Cooperating also does not mean that you need to bend backwards for them, it simply means that you do not provoke them for no apparent reason to show off.

[Beren]

Yes you can. You just ally yourself to somebody who has a similar or a bigger stick. That is it.

What do you think the Ukrainians have been doing?

[Albert]

Ukraine is a fake country anyways.

[JohnRawls]

What do you think the Ukrainians have been doing?

At least with this accident, they provoked Russia for no apparent reason. (Well reason is presidential elections in Ukraine and to make themselves look like the Victim)

[Patrickov]

Yes you can. You just ally yourself to somebody who has a similar or a bigger stick. That is it. Cooperating also does not mean that you need to bend backwards for them, it simply means that you do not provoke them for no apparent reason to show off.

I think you sort of believe Russia would never provoke Ukraine, but I think it's totally possible that a country with a enormous stick want to trap / trick the weaker country into provocation, which, in itself, is the real provocation. And some so-called traps and tricks can simply not be ignored, otherwise you look like easily compromised and things wouldn't bode well for you anyway.

The problem of Ukraine is that it's too far from the US (which itself is probably being sabotaged by Russia in some sense); while the EU, which is the closest big-stick neighbour, is too involved in saving its own integrity.

Ukraine is a fake country anyways.

So what do you want to do? Have Russia annihilate Ukraine?

[Beren]

At least with this accident, they provoked Russia for no apparent reason. (Well reason is presidential elections in Ukraine and to make themselves look like the Victim)

I mean you talk like they haven't allied themselves to "somebody who has a similar or a bigger stick".

Also, Albert just summed up the Russian position pretty well.

[Albert]

So what do you want to do? Have Russia annihilate Ukraine?

Reunification with the motherland.

[JohnRawls]

I mean you talk like they haven't allied themselves to "somebody who has a similar or a bigger stick".

Also, Albert just summed up the Russian position pretty well.

They haven't. They are not members of Nato and Nato does not want to accept them because it knows it will lead to a direct confrontation with Russia not to mention that we can't fully deny that this will fuel Russian animosity to Nato/Eu/West even further. Nobody wants this.

[Beren]

They haven't. They are not members of Nato and Nato does not want to accept them because it knows it will lead to a direct confrontation with Russia not to mention that we can't fully deny that this will fuel Russian animosity to Nato/Eu/West even further. Nobody wants this.

They've allied themselves to NATO, although they're not members, and this is what triggered the Kremlin Lord completely. They should have considered the Finnish model perhaps, although I don't think it would work in their case because unlike Finland they always will be considered a province rather than a country.

[Rich]

Ukraine started this by seizing a fishing boat from Crimea.
But they do not mention this in any headline news of course.
Ukraine are a bunch of losers.

I don't know, overall since 1917, I don't think Ukrainian nationalists have done a bad job, of creating a new nation state, given the relative size and national differentiation from Russia, that they started with. Ukraine won big in 1991, arguably they've done well to hang on to as much territory as they have done.

In 1914, there was no guarantee that a Ukrainian nation state would ever come into existence. In Western Central Europe, where the modern nation states emerged earlier, if we look back there were a number of possible nations that never happened.

[One Degree]

They haven't. They are not members of Nato and Nato does not want to accept them because it knows it will lead to a direct confrontation with Russia not to mention that we can't fully deny that this will fuel Russian animosity to Nato/Eu/West even further. Nobody wants this.

In other words, NATO is chickenshit and would rather sacrifice an autonomous country than confront Russia?
Why ally with someone if Russia doesn’t want you to? Pretty pathetic moral superiority for the self acclaimed morally superior.