[colliric]

One doesn't need a yellow vest in order to protest.

The Yellow Vest represents their opposition of the nanny state of Macron and the fuel Tax(the "emergency" hi-vis vests are mandatory in cars in France).

[Steve_American]

TheJimmyDoreShow 32 min.
Why French Protestors Have 70% Approval From Citizens

A great show, very informative.
Is this the beginning of the world wide revolution, incl. America.

[Sivad]

re Jimmy Dore's bullshit about it not being about carbon taxes but about neoliberalism, carbon taxes are pure neoliberalism. Jimmy Dore doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Carbon taxes are not a progressive solution to climate change, carbon taxes are just another instance of privatizing profits while socializing costs. The one percent has received the concentrated benefits of the carbon economy and now they're trying to diffuse the costs by foisting them off on the lower classes in the form of carbon taxes. Total fucking bullshit.

[Albert]

Today students are out as well.

[skinster]

[Deutschmania]

. This song says it all .

[Albert]

Albert Plaro's predictions: These protests will continue and it seems Macron will go, thankfully. This will usher a new election campaign and crisis in Europe. This will bring a significant change but nothing drastic or revolutionary as I have seen people claim. There is no intellectual frame work to follow through that can bring a historic revolutionary change.

[Igor Antunov]

There is no intellectual frame work to follow through that can bring a historic revolutionary change.

You can't predict the Spanish Inquisition or the Fall of the Guillotine.

[Albert]

[Steve_American]

re Jimmy Dore's bullshit about it not being about carbon taxes but about neoliberalism, carbon taxes are pure neoliberalism. Jimmy Dore doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about. Carbon taxes are not a progressive solution to climate change, carbon taxes are just another instance of privatizing profits while socializing costs. The one percent has received the concentrated benefits of the carbon economy and now they're trying to diffuse the costs by foisting them off on the lower classes in the form of carbon taxes. Total fucking bullshit.

Sivad, IStM that you are 100% correct in this case.
Macron's gas and diesel taxes were just going into the general fund.
A real carbon tax is 100% used to give to everyone a check for the same mount as everyone else to use for the tax. Those who use less than average have money left. Those who use more than average will need other money to pay the tax.
These French taxes didn't not do that. Also, even if they did, rural people who drive further will need more for that reason. It gets complicated fast.

But, Dore's point is this is just the 'straw that broke the camel's back'. I saw many on tape say exactly that. It is Neo-liberalism in total.
. . The simple solution (= the Gov. borrows and never pays it back, it just rolls it over forever) is blocked by the EU rules and structure. Germany exports a lot. This means they have the cash to do fine. I saw where Ger. retired people get so much that they put some into savings for 'a rainy day'. They get enough to save while most other retired people in the EU don't get enough to even eat. Austerity is that bad 10 years after the GFC/2008. It seems to be that bad even in France.
. . The obvious solution is the leave the EU or to force Germany to agree to major changes. See my thread in PoFo Political Circus.

[annatar1914]

or to force Germany to agree to major changes.

It always comes down to force with those people, it seems. I think leaving the EU is the better option, because the EU is turning out to be the enemy of it's member nations, save one...

[Sivad]

[Hindsite]

Thank God we have President Trump, who withdrew us from this insane Paris climate change agreement.
HalleluYah

[AFAIK]

Yellow is the in colour for protesters. Thailand has yellow shirts. China has yellow umbrellas. Now France has yellow vests.

Because that's how representative democracy works?

People can protest all day long, but politicians are not supposed to act on it unless it improves their reelection chances.

Governments make U-turns and flip flop on issues all the time, elected or not. Some have even been known to say one thing during a campaign and then do the opposite once in power.

[RhetoricThug]

Brothers & Sisters, the times they are a changing

Climate change, Technocracy, REVOLUTION

Welcome to the grand 21st century

[Rugoz]

Governments make U-turns and flip flop on issues all the time, elected or not. Some have even been known to say one thing during a campaign and then do the opposite once in power.

Point is, protesters have no legitimate power in a representative democracy, nor in a direct democracy for that matter. You either protest to change the system or do not protest at all. If I were in charge in in France, I would talk to the gilets jaunes who want to change the system and ignore the rest. Macron does the opposite.

[Steve_American]

It always comes down to force with those people, it seems. I think leaving the EU is the better option, because the EU is turning out to be the enemy of it's member nations, save one...

Sir, do you consider me one of 'those people'?
And, I didn't say to use violence. There are ways to apply pressure that are not violent. Right?
Germany clearly doesn't want to change the EU. The German people don't understand that for them to sell more to the world year after year than they buy, many other nations *must* buy more than they sell.
. . And that this is not stable. Neither people (all the time) nor nations (in international trade*) can buy more than their incomes allow in the long run. They can't buy with credit forever. And nations can't sell if no one is buying.
. . Somehow it seems Neo-liberal Economics fails to make this clear.

So, either all the nations of the EU, except Germany, leave it or somehow the Germans are convinced to allow the rules to be changed.
. . The euro was promised to provide prosperity for all. Instead it has brought austerity for all, except Germany. Some economists (all the MMTers) predicted this would happen in the next recession, and clearly they were right.
. . The euro can only survive IF 1 of 2 things happens. 1] Some way is created to create a flow of free euros to the nations that import so they can use euros to buy from the nations that are exporting. [Here I'm assuming all the nations we're talking about are in the Eurozone.] OR, 2] Some way is found to let nations regulate the amount of importing they do to match the amount of exporting they can do.
. . The US does the former by giving the Senators from each state the power to get or force the Fed. Gov. to spend more in poor states than it does in the rich states. Somehow, in the past just enough dollars went into most every state to match all the dollars that flowed out of it. If this wasn't true then some states would have been getting poorer and poorer over time. It may not be as true now, because some states seem to be getting poorer [like Ohio, Indiana, etc., i.e. the rust belt].


* . Fiat money *does* allow a nation to spend inside its borders more than it takes in in taxes and fees. Such nations can borrow without limit, or they can just create cash and spend it into the economy almost without limit. The US has been doing the former since 1981 and did the latter in the GFC/2008. US inflation is now about 2%, so all that borrowing and spending is NOT creating inflation. These are just facts. So far half the neo-liberal economists who between 1981 and 1993 said this could not happen have died of old age waiting for their prediction to come true. When will the American people** realize that this prediction will never come true?
. . But, this only applies inside its borders.
**. This would also apply to many European nations if they left the EU and got their own fiat currencies back.

[skinster]

[annatar1914]

Sir, do you consider me one of 'those people'?

I don't imagine you're one of the European Elites of the less than 1% of humanity that constitute the true puppet masters running the show in the Western world, so probably not.

And, I didn't say to use violence. There are ways to apply pressure that are not violent. Right?

Yes, and historically speaking those non-violent measures are used in the run up to war to gain advantages and buy the time necessary to demonize the particular opponent in question.

Germany clearly doesn't want to change the EU. The German people don't understand that for them to sell more to the world year after year than they buy, many other nations *must* buy more than they sell.
. . And that this is not stable. Neither people (all the time) nor nations (in international trade*) can buy more than their incomes allow in the long run. They can't buy with credit forever. And nations can't sell if no one is buying.

This is due to the principle of the falling rate of profit as understood by most Socialist thinkers. Capitalists find ways to increase their profit margin. generally at the expense of the worker. But since workers are also intended in the System to be buyers and consumers of goods and services, a cut in worker pay means a crisis of overproduction and lost profit.... And all of that is eventually ''solved'' by war, with the destruction of countries and regions and the looting of resources.

[Steve_American]

I don't imagine you're one of the European Elites of the less than 1% of humanity that constitute the true puppet masters running the show in the Western world, so probably not.


Yes, and historically speaking those non-violent measures are used in the run up to war to gain advantages and buy the time necessary to demonize the particular opponent in question.


This is due to the principle of the falling rate of profit as understood by most Socialist thinkers. Capitalists find ways to increase their profit margin. generally at the expense of the worker. But since workers are also intended in the System to be buyers and consumers of goods and services, a cut in worker pay means a crisis of overproduction and lost profit.... And all of that is eventually ''solved'' by war, with the destruction of countries and regions and the looting of resources.

Sir, several decades ago I equated the situation in the world then as being like a game of Risk; with a difference.
. . Which is the Lighter fluid rule, which gives each player a cup with 3 oz or 70 ml of lighter fluid. And some kitchen matches. If at any time the player is not happy with the way the game is going he can dump the lighter fluid onto the map and pieces and light it with a match.
. . Therefore, I don't see much chance of a war between Fr. & Ger.
What you say there in the end is how it has been done in the past. But, for 100+ years wars cost more then you can steal by winning. Also, there is a strong trend toward the nation that starts a war with a near equal being the loser, not the winner.

Where I live the elites don't need a growing profit margin. They seem to understand that the real goal in the game is to earn more status than all the other elites. Status damages others not any at all. Unlike underpaying workers so much that the economy is undermined. So, as long as the elites can live the good life, they don't to earn and keep more money every calendar quarter. They just need to show other elites that they earned more than most other elites.

The greedy capitalists of the West are well on their way to destroying the world's economy, then the world's climate, then technological civilization, and finally (maybe) humanity itself. The rest of us MUST straighten them out. Teach them that they can compete for status instead of money they have no use for. [When you have a wealth of $1B dollars, what more can you buy with another $10M dollars?]

In the current situation in France, macron has made concessions, but until he raises taxes on the corps. and the rich; there is no way he can pay for any concessions. The EU rules don't allow endless deficit spending, so he must offset concessions with taxes on someone. So far he refuses. So far the rich refuse. This is the heart of the problem.