[Drlee]

I am all for leaving these different peoples alone, but as we can see in Venezuela as we have seen elsewhere, this just allows China and Russia to control them.

This is a good point. We are not the only game in town. Russia opposes us on traditional grounds. They need a bugaboo because they have some serious economic problems at home. Besides. The dictator running the place was raised to believe that the US is his enemy. The oligarchs, while not pro American, know they need the stability and markets of the US to keep getting richer.

China is looking for markets and raw materials. Pretty much that simple. Nevertheless both Russia and China certainly see the end of US hegemony in defense a good thing. And the only way to achieve that is to tamp down the US economy.

At the same time I agree with Sivad (imagine that) that we are frequently backing the wrong horse.

[Sivad]

I am all for leaving these different peoples alone, but as we can see in Venezuela as we have seen elsewhere, this just allows China and Russia to control them.

First he says we can't leave them alone because they'll fall prey to China and Russia, then he says we must leave them alone, who are we to interfere?

[One Degree]

That's what I figured, you don't want to solve the problem you just want to hate on immigrants and have an excuse for fascism. Whatever.

Here we go again with what I actually say being replaced with what someone imagines I said. I want people left alone to make their own decisions, but that seems almost impossible today because of ideologues. We can not help Latin Americans without being imperialists in today’s reality. The simple fact our own country is falling apart from polarization clearly demonstrates we don’t have the wisdom to help anyone, but that doesn’t stop ideologues from believing they have the answers. How about we help them by setting an example? Until we can do that, we should be very careful in assuming we have any solutions for others or inviting them to a country that hasn’t solved their own problems.
We should leave countries alone unless they allow outside influence that is detrimental to our own well being. A Russian nuclear bomber base in Venezuela is obviously against our best interests and the interests of the people of Venezuela. We should interfere and much more aggressively than we have so far. Without the Russian and Chinese influence, then I would condemn any interference by us.

[Drlee]

Regarding the bomber base. If Argentina should try to allow this I would be for military intervention. My suspicion is it would not come to that. Russia can't protect them.

It is also time for Trump to make a public statement to the people of Argentina reminding them that if it should come to pass that there are missiles in Argentina that could target the US, the minimum response they could expect is an economic blockade and enough us nuclear weapons target on them that we could pave the place.

[Stormsmith]

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2018/dec/6/donald-trump-companies-ignoring-e-verify-hiring-il/
Alex Nowrasteh, an immigration policy analyst at the Cato Institute’s Center for Global Liberty and Prosperity, a libertarian think-tank in Washington, D.C., said the E-Verify system accepts passports, Social Security cards and other documents submitted by job applicants even if they are fraudulent — which is the way most undocumented immigrants secure employment.

Nowrasteh said “a large portion of employers still don’t use it for new hires” because they know that government audits of traditional paper forms are so few and far between.

The reason for the low participation rate is that the program is voluntary in most states. It’s mandatory in most of the U.S. only for businesses that have been caught hiring undocumented immigrants.

The Social Security Administration estimated that 1.8 million immigrants were working with fake or stolen Social Security cards in 2010 — and that number is projected to reach 3.4 million by 2040.

Companies that don’t use E-Verify require jobseekers to fill out the I-9 forms to check work eligibility. The employers then must certify that the documents provided by the applicant appear to be genuine.

With such a low chance of being audited, Costa said, the whole job-authorization system is “a wink and a nod from the government to employers” that lets them continue to hire workers who are not in the U.S. lawfully.

The Cato Institute’s Nowrasteh argues that E-Verify exists simply because it allows politicians to claim the U.S. is being tough on immigration without actually having to be tough.

Prior to the end of WWII, America’s policies on immigration varied. British came in unchecked, in fact white people had little barring them. Asians weren't so lucky. Jews, trying to save themselves from Hitler were shipped back. The Japanese weĺl, you know what happened. Only slaves were welcomed. In hindsight, in the main, history hasn't held your policies in the highest of regard. Since the end of the war you've turned 180 ° . Ford, Reagan, and both Bushes accepted newcomers, sometimes graciously for humanitarian reasons, eg the boat people from the Nam, sometimes pragmaticly, siting the need for someone to do the jobs Americans won't. Well, you would if they paid enough, but agriculture pays squat. Oil truckers are well paid.

Your unemployment rate is historically low. Regular Americans aren't reproducing at a 2 kids per couple rate which is putting boomers' pensions at risk. Obama deported questionable migrants and refugees.

That said, the world didn't come to an end, did it? These American wannabes work hard because they want to keep their jobs and stay stateside, pay taxes, establish businesses from lawn maintainance to silicon valley, buy cars and trucks and houses etc. Just process them properly at the border, keep track of them as you would anyone, fix e-verify and for the love of Mike, relax. Use this time to repair your reputation as anti-everyone who isn't white, pray for reunion of parents and children (which is going to be regarded historicallý as perfectly deplorable) and enjoy your own family.

Also, if President Trump is thinking of declaring this a national emergency, he should think again. The majority of Americans don't want this wall, nor do they buy the idea of sustaining a huge debt they were duped into thinking Mexico would pay, and don't think its effectiveness is up to much. And Hindsite, with the unemployment rate being so low, and Trumps claims of immanent disaster in the near future as pure malarchy, your court won't buy it either. So if President Trump does pursue it, expect a second massive drubbing

The Democrats will not allow it to be fixed.

Horse feathers, just...horse feathers.

[Hindsite]

No, it's not going to stop crime. That's not the purpose of it. You implying that it is, is dishonest.

The purpose of E-Verify is to make employers accountable for their employees. If no employer will employ an illegal, then illegals will stop coming to USA, because they know they cannot find employment. That is called a DETERRENT.

They will keep coming because of all the free stuff they will get. E-Verify has already proved that it is not enforceable. It is no different from the liquor prohibition laws that eventually had to be repelled.

[Godstud]

They will keep coming because of all the free stuff they will get.

There is no free stuff. You are making that up. It's pure fantasy and blatantly false.

STOP MAKING UP FALSEHOODS. They do not support your argument, and in fact, weaken it.

E-Verify has already proved that it is not enforceable.

That's also false. You can enforce employers to use it, and adhere to it. You're making up bullshit, AGAIN.

E-Verify can be effective but please note: South Carolina is the only one of the nine private E-Verify states that conducts audits.

E-Verify Laws Across Southern Red States Are Barely Enforced
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... y-enforced

Enforcing the laws would be a good place to start, but as @Drlee has mentioned numerous times, such is not the case.

[One Degree]

There is no free stuff. You are making that up. It's pure fantasy and blatantly false.

STOP MAKING UP FALSEHOODS. They do not support your argument, and in fact, weaken it.

That's also false. You can enforce employers to use it, and adhere to it. You're making up bullshit, AGAIN.

E-Verify can be effective but please note: South Carolina is the only one of the nine private E-Verify states that conducts audits.

E-Verify Laws Across Southern Red States Are Barely Enforced
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... y-enforced

Enforcing the laws would be a good place to start, but as @Drlee has mentioned numerous times, such is not the case.

So in your mind, Republican states actually passing E-verify is worse than Democrat states refusing to even pass it but argue it as an alternative to the wall?

[Hindsite]

There is no free stuff. You are making that up. It's pure fantasy and blatantly false.

STOP MAKING UP FALSEHOODS. They do not support your argument, and in fact, weaken it.

It is true that some come here for the free stuff. Some come to work too and take advantage of our system that helps the poor. Others come to make money off illegal drugs and to pillage and rape.

[Godstud]

It is true that some come here for the free stuff. Some come to work too and take advantage of our system that helps the poor.

Your argument is a bullshit, as Welfare and other things do not apply to illegals. The same old tired myth perpetuated by the ignorant and uneducated. Support this with an actual source, please.

Others come to make money off illegal drugs and to pillage and rape.

Those are VERY few, and less common than you would like to imagine. Fear-mongering rubbish, as usual.

Two charts demolish the notion that immigrants here illegally commit more crime



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... 0afd26ec55

[Hindsite]

Your argument is a bullshit, as Welfare and other things do not apply to illegals. The same old tired myth perpetuated by the ignorant and uneducated. Support this with an actual source, please.

63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs
Compared to 35% of native households

Compared to native households, non-citizen households have much higher use of food programs (45 percent vs. 21 percent for natives) and Medicaid (50 percent vs. 23 percent for natives).

Including the EITC, 31 percent of non-citizen-headed households receive cash welfare, compared to 19 percent of native households.

In California, 72 percent of non-citizen-headed households use one or more welfare programs, compared to 35 percent for native-headed households. In Texas, the figures are 69 percent vs. 35 percent; in New York they are 53 percent vs. 38 percent; and in Florida, 56 percent of non-citizen-headed households use at least welfare program, compared to 35 percent of native households.

While most new legal immigrants (green card holders) are barred from most welfare programs, as are illegal immigrants and temporary visitors, these provisions have only a modest impact on non-citizen household use rates because: 1) most legal immigrants have been in the country long enough to qualify; 2) the bar does not apply to all programs, nor does it always apply to non-citizen children; 3) some states provide welfare to new immigrants on their own; and, most importantly, 4) non-citizens (including illegal immigrants) can receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children who are awarded U.S. citizenship and full welfare eligibility at birth.

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Ho ... e-Programs

Some colleges offer private financial aid to undocumented immigrants. In additional to private scholarships provided by some colleges, a few states often their own financial assistance to undocumented immigrants.

[XogGyux]

63% of Non-Citizen Households Access Welfare Programs
Compared to 35% of native households

Compared to native households, non-citizen households have much higher use of food programs (45 percent vs. 21 percent for natives) and Medicaid (50 percent vs. 23 percent for natives).

Including the EITC, 31 percent of non-citizen-headed households receive cash welfare, compared to 19 percent of native households.

In California, 72 percent of non-citizen-headed households use one or more welfare programs, compared to 35 percent for native-headed households. In Texas, the figures are 69 percent vs. 35 percent; in New York they are 53 percent vs. 38 percent; and in Florida, 56 percent of non-citizen-headed households use at least welfare program, compared to 35 percent of native households.

While most new legal immigrants (green card holders) are barred from most welfare programs, as are illegal immigrants and temporary visitors, these provisions have only a modest impact on non-citizen household use rates because: 1) most legal immigrants have been in the country long enough to qualify; 2) the bar does not apply to all programs, nor does it always apply to non-citizen children; 3) some states provide welfare to new immigrants on their own; and, most importantly, 4) non-citizens (including illegal immigrants) can receive benefits on behalf of their U.S.-born children who are awarded U.S. citizenship and full welfare eligibility at birth.

https://cis.org/Report/63-NonCitizen-Ho ... e-Programs

Some colleges offer private financial aid to undocumented immigrants. In additional to private scholarships provided by some colleges, a few states often their own financial assistance to undocumented immigrants.

Excellent point! we should make them citizens as soon as possible. Thanks for your report.

[Hindsite]

Another point is that illegal immigrants commit a large number of crimes that we know about. However, it is known that many immigrant crimes are not reported, and possibly in greater proportion than the crimes that the U.S.-born commit. Many victims of immigrant criminals fear reporting crimes to the police because their victimizers are of the same nationality, and thus are more likely to retaliate in ways that would dissuade the victim from calling police. Many are never caught and convicted because they are able to easily escape back across the border.