End of maduro - hopefully. - Page 44 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15004095
JohnRawls wrote:Why are you asking proof for things that are self evident? Who else is responsible for the economic situation in Venezuela if not the government? :eh:


Deliberate economic warfare and manipulation from the USA, obviously.
#15004097
Pants-of-dog wrote:Deliberate economic warfare and manipulation from the USA, obviously.


I gave you arguments. I explained the sanctions which were non-existent between 2005 and 2015. 2015 till 2018 there was no real sanctions that harmed the economy. Only 2019 sanctions could be described as harmful to the economy.

Venezuelan economic problems started around 2008, some would argue even with Chavez but i would say 2008 went the oil crashed due to the crysis and the world economic recession. There was no deliberate economic warfare, you are just covering for Maduro due to your ideological biases.
#15004117
skinster wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BemFqGBSq3g



Yeah, it is so debunked that 35% of Venezuela actually support direct foreign intervention to out Maduro. I think this is a record skinsterina, i actually never seen numbers like this for people of their own country actually supporting foreign intervention to just oust their own illegitimate president. May be North Korea can top that eventually but not right now :excited:
#15004153
Guaido collaborator Medea Benjamin acknowledges that the Maduro regime is partly responsible for the economic turmoil and calls for negotiated settlement:

(Ben Norton is a dildo)
#15004164
Pants-of-dog wrote:Deliberate economic warfare and manipulation from the USA, obviously.

Russia and Cuba support Maduro in Venezuela. It appears that Bernie Sanders and that crazy Latino Democrat with her Green New Deal from New York does too.

Venezuela - The Fall of an Oil Empire explained by Patrick Bet-David
Published on Feb 26, 2019
#15004248
Patrick Bet-David repeats lies that even mainstream media has disproved.

Most mass media is going after the bottom 40% of the IQ and Education spectrum, but this video seems to be targetting even lower.

Thanks for sharing it and showing what a dangerous world of media lies we live in.
#15004274
QatzelOk wrote:Patrick Bet-David repeats lies that even mainstream media has disproved.

You must mean the fake news media, like CNN and MSNBC. They work for the left-wing Democrats, that is why they want speak badly about socialism and tell the truth that it does not work.

The collapse of Venezuela, explained


Maracaibo, the story of Venezuela's collapse
Published on Jul 20, 2018


Mass migration from Venezuela puts pressure on neighboring nations
Published on Sep 12, 2018

Rising prices, a shortage of goods and a lack of electricity and medical care have Venezuelans fleeing their country. It is the largest mass exodus South America has experienced in recent history

Neighboring nations have imposed new rules for entry as thousands have been arriving at their borders each day. Peru, Colombia, Argentina and Brazil are all coping with intense pressure from the influx.

Correspondent Harris Whitbeck reports from Ecuador, another country feeling the strain of the crisis and one that's already seen its share of mass migrations.

The United Nations is comparing Venezuela’s current surge in migration to Europe’s Mediterranean migrant crisis in 2015. The organization is also putting together a team to help coordinate a relief effort.

Why Colombia has taken in 1 million Venezuelans
Premiered Nov 27, 2018
#15004323
What's great about you (as a propagandist) hindsite, is that you can't learn.

There has been enough information provided by various sources that demonstrate that most of your "information" is propaganda. For example, while it is true that there are up to 3 million Venezuelans in Columbia, it is equally true that there are five million Colombian refugees in Venezuela. This is something that can be researched, but you didn't bother researching it. Or talking to Colombian refugees in your own city. Or consulting a wide range of news sources and finding overlap and diversity of opinion.

Your "monotheism" could indicate that you worship monopolies. And this may be a good way to ensure that you never hear the multiple sides of conflicts. Which makes you a terrible arbiter of information.

As a journalist you have Zero credibility because zero curiosity.
#15004429
QatzelOk wrote:What's great about you (as a propagandist) hindsite, is that you can't learn.

There has been enough information provided by various sources that demonstrate that most of your "information" is propaganda. For example, while it is true that there are up to 3 million Venezuelans in Columbia, it is equally true that there are five million Colombian refugees in Venezuela. This is something that can be researched, but you didn't bother researching it. Or talking to Colombian refugees in your own city. Or consulting a wide range of news sources and finding overlap and diversity of opinion.

Your "monotheism" could indicate that you worship monopolies. And this may be a good way to ensure that you never hear the multiple sides of conflicts. Which makes you a terrible arbiter of information.

As a journalist you have Zero credibility because zero curiosity.

i am not a Journalist and neither are you. You are simply a bullshitter.
#15005599
That was a good way of explaining Hindsite, Qatz. :up:

Pasqualina Curcio: ‘Hyperinflation is a Powerful Imperialist Weapon’
Much is made in the media of Venezuela’s deep economic crisis. But why does Venezuela have the world’s highest inflation rate and what impacts have the sanctions really had on the country? Green Left Weekly’s Federico Fuentes spoke to Venezuelan economist Pascualina Curcio, from the Simón Bolívar University, to find out more.

Hyperinflation is a grave problem in Venezuela, but its causes are less clear. How do you explain it?


The determinant cause of hyperinflation in Venezuela is the political manipulation by third parties of the exchange rate between the bolívar [Bs, Venezuela’s local currency] and the US dollar. That is why we have said this is induced hyperinflation.

Since 2006, certain websites have set a supposed value of the bolívar that has no bearing on its real value. Economic agents have in turn used these exchange rates as reference points when calculating costs and prices.

The sequence of events goes something like this: these websites set a higher price for the dollar in regard to the bolívar and influence a psychological variable, known as rational and adaptive expectations… Economic agents observing a long-term trend towards a supposed depreciation of the bolívar wait for this trend to continue and adapt their costs and price calculations based on this value, even though it is fictitious.

Hyperinflation is due to this attack on the local currency and political manipulation of its price.

To date, the scale of this attack has reached 5,000,000,000%. In 2013, the exchange rate on these websites was 8.69BsF/US$. Today it is around 400,000,000BsF/US$ or 4,000BsS/US$.

[BsF refers to Bolívar Fuerte, the currency in use from 2007–18. Since then, the Bolívar Soberano, BsS, has come into circulation.]

We can say with absolute certainty that in Venezuela, there is nothing from the economic point of view that has occurred that could explain such as a large and supposed depreciation of the currency.

Instead, what we are dealing with is political manipulation.

Hyperinflation is an imperialist weapon, a non-conventional one, which leads to the pulverisation of real salaries and a contraction in levels of national production. As the purchasing power of the working class deteriorates, demand for products reduces, meaning producers are forced to decrease production.

One method for trying to calculate an implicit exchange rate is by dividing the total amount of money circulating in the economy by the amount of international reserves. In Venezuela’s case, this implicit exchange rate is 4,500,000BsF/US$ [or 45BsS/US$]

The opposition and media say that most of the sanctions imposed on Venezuela have been targeted at individuals — at least until this year — and that therefore they have not impacted on the country’s economic situation. What can you tell us about the impact of the sanctions?


There have been specific sanctions on state officials as well as unilateral and illegal coercive measures that have impacted not on the economy but on the entire population of Venezuela.

For example, in August 2017 United States President Donald Trump signed a decree in which he prohibited the Venezuelan government and PDVSA, the state oil company that generates 98% of the country’s income, from being able to acquire new debts.

The Bank of England has seized $1.2 billion worth of gold that belongs to the republic, while [Belgium-based financial services company] Euroclear has seized $1.6 billion that was destined for importing food and medicines.

Recently, the US expropriated Citgo, PDVSA’s US subsidiary, in a move that represented a loss of $7 billion in assets and more than $11 billion in lost trade for this year alone.

These actions add up to the loss of about $21 billion.

To this we should add the impact of the attack on the currency and the contraction in national production due to the political manipulation of the exchange rate, which is worth another $91 billion, making for a total of $114 billion.

This sum represents roughly one year’s GDP, or the amount needed to import food and medicine for the next 26 years.

These are unilateral coercive measures that affect all the population in a deliberate and systematic manner. That is why, in accordance with the Rome Statutes [of the International Criminal Court], they are crimes against humanity.

It seems the government has been unable or unwilling to confront this economic situation. How much blame do you think can be laid on the government for the current situation?


The government has made important efforts to counteract the effects of the economic war.

For example, faced with selective and programmed food shortages, it created the Local Committees for Food Distribution and Production, through which organised communities distribute food.

It has strengthened trade and financial alliances with countries such as China, Russia, Turkey, Iran and India, as a way of dealing with the unilateral coercive measures.

It has shifted from using the US dollar to other currencies.

In terms of the impacts of hyperinflation, the government has adjusted salaries to counteract the loss of purchasing power. While these pay rises have not resolved the problem of hyperinflation, they have counteracted some of its effects.

The most important problem right now is the attack on the currency, which distorts everything to do with the internal economy. It is a very powerful weapon.

In this sense, the government should centre its efforts on combatting this weapon, along with continuing to do what it has been doing until now to counteract its effects.

Given the situation and economic blockade, is it possible for Venezuela to get out of this crisis in the short term? What measures should be taken to at least confront the most immediate impacts of the crisis?

Venezuela is a country that has a lot of natural resources, including the largest oil reserves and one of the largest gold reserves in the world. It also has allies such as China, Russia, India and Iran.

In this sense, there are good perspectives and conditions for Venezuela to overcome the situation.

In terms of measures that could be taken, we have proposed the need to strengthen the bolívar and stop third parties manipulating its price.

Our proposal includes two aspects.

On the one hand, make the bolívar a gold-backed currency, a proposal in line with the route that the new international monetary system is taking with China’s creation of the gold-backed petro-yuan.

On the other, to increase the amount of international reserves held in gold, something that is perfectly feasible given the large quantities Venezuela has at its disposal.
https://mronline.org/2019/05/14/pasqual ... st-weapon/


Sivad wrote:Guaido collaborator Medea Benjamin acknowledges that the Maduro regime is partly responsible for the economic turmoil and calls for negotiated settlement:


lol, most of the discussion was anti-US actions in Venezuela and the "negotiated settlement" didn't include random Guaido. .

Also, I don't think Medea is a "Guaido collaborator" and her org played a major part in holding onto the Venezuelan Embassy in D.C., from control from Guaido's ilk.






(Ben Norton is a dildo)


What did he say that upset you? I remember you posting stuff from here on these boards, did his anti-imperialist stance on Venezuela make you feel sad?
#15005609
skinster wrote:That was a good way of explaining Hindsite, Qatz. :up:





lol, most of the discussion was anti-US actions in Venezuela and the "negotiated settlement" didn't include random Guaido. .

Also, I don't think Medea is a "Guaido collaborator" and her org played a major part in holding onto the Venezuelan Embassy in D.C., from control from Guaido's ilk.








What did he say that upset you? I remember you posting stuff from here on these boards, did his anti-imperialist stance on Venezuela make you feel sad?


Hyperinflation is a weapon? Right, if you fuck up your own economy and then be like "Why my money not worth anything now? Must be the damn imperialists!" Inflation exists irrelevant of the mode of production. It existed since ancient times.
#15007225
skinster wrote:https://twitter.com/isgoodrum/status/1131319917544738816


In your own article. Literally the first sentence if you actually read it.
The United States is preparing sanctions and criminal charges against Venezuelan officials and others suspected of using a military-run food aid program to launder money for President Nicolas Maduro’s government, according to people familiar with the matter.
#15007684
skinster wrote:lol, most of the discussion was anti-US actions in Venezuela


:knife: The very first thing she said is that it is important to recognize the economic turmoil is due to government corruption and mismanagement(almost an exact quote).


and the "negotiated settlement" didn't include random Guaido.


:knife: He's the opposition leader so that goes without saying.

Also, I don't think Medea is a "Guaido collaborator"


According to Norton she is, Norton called Lander a collaborator for attempting to arrange a settlement. That's one of the many reasons why Norton is a fucking idiot.


What did he say that upset you? I remember you posting stuff from here on these boards, did his anti-imperialist stance on Venezuela make you feel sad?


My problem with Norton here is that he's telling retarded fucking lies that by association damage the serious anti-interventionist opposition. He's also attacking honest critics like Lander and making it that much harder for them to address the problem. Norton is just a fucking nitwit, if he really cared about Venezuela he would just shut the fuck up and get out of the way.
#15007705
Dozens of Venezuelan prisoners killed in clashes with police

Twenty-nine detainees were killed and 19 police officers were wounded during a confrontation in a police cell block in north-western Venezuela.

The incident, which took place in the town of Acarigua in the state of Portuguesa, was described by state official as a failed escape attempt, but human rights groups have called it a massacre.

“There was an attempted escape and a fight broke out among [rival] gangs,” the Portuguesa citizen security secretary, Oscar Valero, told reporters. “With police intervention to prevent the escape, well, there were 29 deaths.” He said some 355 people were being held in the cell block.

Human rights groups questioned the official version of events.

Detainees detonated three grenades, which wounded 19 police officers, he said. Venezuela’s information ministry has not replied to a request for comment.

“How is it that there was a confrontation between prisoners and police, but there are only dead prisoners?” Humberto Prado of the Venezuelan Prisons Observatory said. “And if the prisoners had weapons, how did those weapons get in?”

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... ith-police
#15007710
Sivad wrote::knife: The very first thing she said is that it is important to recognize the economic turmoil is due to government corruption and mismanagement(almost an exact quote).


The "very first" thing she actually talked about was about Pelosi, Clinton and Trump. Yes, she mentioned the two things you mentioned in one short sentence very quickly at the beginning of the interview, but right after that what you're quoting from me applies: "most of the (12-min interview) discussion was anti-US actions in Venezuela", so it's kind of odd you'd use an interview with Medea Benjamin to support your whatever-the-fuck-it-is position, when she's basically on the same page as me, although has gone much further, what with her recent occupation of Venezuela's embassy in D.C. recently.

:knife: He's the opposition leader so that goes without saying.


What are you talking about? I wrote: lol, most of the discussion was anti-US actions in Venezuela and the "negotiated settlement" didn't include random Guaido as a response to the interview with Medea Benjamin you posted, and how none of her interview supported Guaido in any way, so I'm not sure why you responded to that sentence of mine with:

:knife: He's the opposition leader so that goes without saying.


I'm sure you can't explain.

I see now why you spent this long responding to that post of mine, as if I can't look back at what our debate was. Poor show, Sivad.

And anyway, he's not the opposition leader, he's a opposition leader, but mainly a CIA puppet who most of Venezuela hadn't heard of until this year.

According to Norton she is,


Norton didn't refer to Medea as a Guaido collaborator.

Norton called Lander a collaborator for attempting to arrange a settlement.


Oh, you meant to say Norton called Lander (a he) not Medea (a she) a collaborator? Well, uh, it might be because he was known to be collaborating with Guaido on something. After all, he and Guaido were pictured in meetings together and Norton pointed out how that was omitted from the Democracy Now's interview with Lander.

My problem with Norton here is that he's telling retarded fucking lies


What lies? Lander isn't an "honest critic" just because you say so. He called Guaido the "most popular opposition leader" when most of Venezuela hadn't heard of him until the CIA pushed him front and centre for coup-for-oil purposes. Bizarrely, the "small platform" that Lander's a part of is called Citizens Platform in Defense of the Constitution but nothing in the Constitution legitimizes Guaido's attempt to take power for the CIA's benefit or for any reason at all.
#15007731
skinster wrote:The "very first" thing she actually talked about was about Pelosi, Clinton and Trump. Yes, she mentioned the two things you mentioned in one short sentence very quickly at the beginning of the interview


She prefaced the entire discussion about the economy with a recognition of the "terrible mismanagement" and corruption of the government.

so it's kind of odd you'd use an interview with Medea Benjamin to support your whatever-the-fuck-it-is position, when she's basically on the same page as me


She's not engaging in ideologically motivated obtuse denial of indisputable facts of reality so she's definitely not on the same page as you.


I see now why you spent this long responding to that post of mine, as if I can't look back at what our debate was. Poor show, Sivad.


:knife: I posted a video of Benjamin recognizing government mismanagement and corruption and calling for a negotiated settlement, you responded by dishonestly trying to downplay her statements.

And anyway, he's not the opposition leader, he's a opposition leader, but mainly a CIA puppet who most of Venezuela hadn't heard of until this year.


He's the leader of the largest political coalition in the country.


Norton didn't refer to Medea as a Guaido collaborator.


He called Lander a collaborator for doing exactly what Benjamin was doing in that video: recognizing government corruption and mismanagement and calling for negotiations.


Oh, you meant to say Norton called Lander (a he) not Medea (a she) a collaborator? Well, uh, it might be because he was known to be collaborating with Guaido on something.


Lander never collaborated with Guaido on anything, in fact he's an outspoken critic of Guaido and the opposition. Norton called Lander a collaborator because Norton is fucking liar who's more interested in promoting his little brand to the commie kid niche than doing journalism.

After all, he and Guaido were pictured in meetings together and Norton pointed out how that was omitted from the Democracy Now's interview with Lander.


Yeah, that's not some big gotcha. Lander has been openly trying to bring the regime and the opposition to the negotiating table, meeting with the opposition to try to arrange that isn't "collaborating". DN didn't omit it, they just didn't shamelessly distort it in some lame attempt at pandering to their commie kid fan base.



What lies? Lander isn't an "honest critic" just because you say so. He called Guaido the "most popular opposition leader" when most of Venezuela hadn't heard of him


:knife: When Lander made that statement there were multiple polls from multiple polling agencies showing Guaido at well over 50% approval. So Lander was right and Norton, once again, is shamelessly bullshitting.


until the CIA pushed him front and centre for coup-for-oil purposes.


No, Venezuelans first heard of Guaido when he was elected president of the national assembly. You really need to lay off the Ben Norton, his idiotic lies are leaving you seriously disinformed.

Bizarrely, the "small platform" that Lander's a part of is called Citizens Platform in Defense of the Constitution but nothing in the Constitution legitimizes Guaido's attempt to take power for the CIA's benefit or for any reason at all.


What exactly is so bizarre about it? Lander condemned the coup attempt and has been one of Guaido's harshest critics. It's only bizarre if you're getting your [dis]information from stupid regime shills like Norton.
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