[Hindsite]

@Istanbuller, a wall is not better than a sea barrier and yet the UK still has illegal migration. If you have entry points then you have weakness. But even so, you need to understand that even Trumps wall is weak in the mountains and at the Rio Grande so will just move the point of entry there anyway. Not to mention human traffickers profiting over this.

Nonetheless is it really so difficult for Right Wingers to understand that until you address the reason for illegal migration first, all a wall will do will be the same as wall-papering over the cracks in you home?

That has been tried, but the Democrats will not agree with anything Trump wants first. Trump does not expect to stop all illegal immigration. The idea is to get it to a more manageable level until the Democrats come to their senses, hopefully.

[Istanbuller]

@Istanbuller, a wall is not better than a sea barrier and yet the UK still has illegal migration. If you have entry points then you have weakness. But even so, you need to understand that even Trumps wall is weak in the mountains and at the Rio Grande so will just move the point of entry there anyway. Not to mention human traffickers profiting over this.

Still physical barrier is superior to every other kind of security measures. Trump's border wall is the most effective and least costly measure.

Nonetheless is it really so difficult for Right Wingers to understand that until you address the reason for illegal migration first, all a wall will do will be the same as wall-papering over the cracks in you home?

Addressing reasons behind immigration is not really the matter here. It should never be. Drug clashes and human right violations in Hispanic countries is not United States of America's problem. What matters to American people is border security and keeping illegals away from the country.

[B0ycey]

That has been tried, but the Democrats will not agree with anything Trump wants first. Trump does not expect to stop all illegal immigration. The idea is to get it to a more manageable level until the Democrats come to their senses, hopefully.

Of course. The wall has never been about illegal immigration so why would Trump expect it to stop? It is to please his backers. Although it does need to be said that if Trump did bring forward legislation to imprison Capitalists for long sentences who used illegal migrants, the Democrats might agree to it if it meant the end of the wall.

#compromise

[B0ycey]

Still physical barrier is superior to every other kind of security measures. Trump's border wall is the most effective and least costly measure.

What use is a mug with a hole in the bottom? If there is a point of entry, there is a weakness. Expecting the wall to do anything but move the problem is simply naive.

Addressing reasons behind immigration is not really the matter here. It should never be. Drug clashes and human right violations in Hispanic countries is not United States of America's problem. What matters to American people is border security and keeping illegals away from the country.

Without work there is no draw. That is indeed America's problem.

[Drlee]

The stupid liberal Democrats are still trying to sue to stop it. That's crazy.

No. What is crazy is someone thinking that democrats are liberals. It is a center right party.

[Hindsite]

If there is a point of entry, there is a weakness. Expecting the wall to do anything but move the problem is simply naive.

To move the problem is one point of the wall.

Without work there is no draw. That is indeed America's problem.

No, the availability of work is a good thing.

No. What is crazy is someone thinking that democrats are liberals. It is a center right party.

BS, the Democrats have gone so far left, they are becoming socialists.

[Taurean Reign]

[Zag Edit: Rule 2]

[B0ycey]

To move the problem is one point of the wall.

What use is spending $12+ Billion on a white elephant when immigrants can just cross into America somewhere else? If the objective is to just move the problem then you haven't exactly solved it have you? Plus at the same time you have wasted tax payers money.

Pelosi is very correct by saying this is a waste of money if that is the line of thinking from the Trumpist.

No, the availability of work is a good thing.

Sure is. But is exploited labor?

The fact of the matter is that the capitalists are more interested in the need for profit than preventing this crisis and as such they will use immigrant workers at the expense of US workers because they are cheaper. This draws in more migrants to America to look for work and as such the crisis grows.

If you are really against Latinos from entering America, surely it is better to cut the head of the snake then just pen it into a corner?

#sendtheexploiterstojail

[Hindsite]

What use is spending $12+ Billion on a white elephant when immigrants can just cross into America somewhere else? If the objective is to just move the problem then you haven't exactly solved it have you? Plus at the same time you have wasted tax payers money.

President Trump only wanted $5.7 billion for barriers to funnel the illegal immigrants to places where the border patrol can easily apprehend them to check for disease and to control other criminal activity, like drug and human trafficking.

is very correct by saying this is a waste of money if that is the line of thinking from the Trumpist.

Actually, it costs the U.S. taxpayer more than the cost of the border walls to leave the border unsecured.

Sure is. But is exploited labor?

The fact of the matter is that the capitalists are more interested in the need for profit than preventing this crisis and as such they will use immigrant workers at the expense of US workers because they are cheaper. This draws in more migrants to America to look for work and as such the crisis grows.

If you are really against Latinos from entering America, surely it is better to cut the head of the snake then just pen it into a corner?

We are not against Latinos or other immigrants entering America as long as our government can check them out first. Actually, President Trump has said many times that we want immigrants to come in legally to fill some of the open jobs. There is a legal way for immigrants to enter the U.S. and that is all most Americans want, except for the liberal Democrats, who like illegal immigrants to flood in for some crazy reason. But that is the crazy liberals for you.

[B0ycey]

President Trump only wanted $5.7 billion for barriers to funnel the illegal immigrants to places where the border patrol can easily apprehend them to check for disease and to control other criminal activity, like drug and human trafficking.

No, Trump asked for $5.7 billion that was refused. Do you think the wall is going to be just that?

But like I said, the problem just moves to a point of weakness. Not a border post. Unless you are going to have a string of US guards hand in hand along the Rio Grande and up the mountains. Not to mention human traffickers sending truck loads in container vans.

Actually, it costs the U.S. taxpayer more than the cost of the border walls to leave the border unsecured.

Source please.

Although it needs to be said that legislation to imprison exploiters of illegal migrants for their labor will cost the US tax payer nothing but their gruel and cell up keep - which can be recouped by taking away their assets FYI.

We are not against Latinos or other immigrants entering America as long as our government can check them out first. Actually, President Trump has said many times that we want immigrants to come in legally to fill some of the open jobs. There is a legal way for immigrants to enter the U.S. and that is all most Americans want, except for the liberal Democrats, who like illegal immigrants to flood in for some crazy reason. But that is the crazy liberals for you.

All Heil the mighty Trump and his humanity. Whatever.

Perhaps if he wants Latinos to take vacant jobs he could start by granting asylum to the Dreamers. The very people who do not know anything but American life and are in essence American citizens.

Not that any of this matters. You are naive to believe this wall is anything other than a thank you to Trumps backers during his election campaign.

[Istanbuller]

What use is a mug with a hole in the bottom? If there is a point of entry, there is a weakness. Expecting the wall to do anything but move the problem is simply naive.

Having a border wall is better than having nothing.

[B0ycey]

Having a border wall is better than having nothing.

Having $12+ billion in the bank is better than having nothing.

Sometimes you have to question where people want their tax dollars to go.

[Istanbuller]

Having $12+ billion in the bank is better than having nothing.

Sometimes you have to question where people want their tax dollars to go.

12 billion is nothing compared to other government spendings. It would be easily allocated without even noticing cuts to other spendings.

Did you question all other trillion dollar welafre programs? Would you give pass to universal healthcare? Would you give pass to Green New Deal?

You are simply trolling just like other anti-Trumpists in this thread. I thought you were seriously debating. I understand i am mistaken to assume that you were serious.

[B0ycey]

12 billion is nothing compared to other government spendings. It would be easily allocated without even noticing cuts to other spendings.

Did you question all other trillion dollar welafre programs? Would you give pass to universal healthcare? Would you give pass to Green New Deal?

You are simply trolling just like other anti-Trumpists in this thread. I thought you were seriously debating. I understand i am mistaken to assume that you were serious.

I doubt $12 billion from the military budget will go unnoticed but whatever.

Also it needs to be said I am as serious as a debater as the points I have brought forward and nothing more. That is $12+ billion is a waste of money and doesn't solve the underlying problems that it is meant to solve.

But sure, let America take away what little welfare they give to their poor and let the revolution take off there. I am surprised the wealth divide hasn't snapped the nation already actually - but I am sure taking away everything would be the breaking point.

[Hindsite]

No, Trump asked for $5.7 billion that was refused. Do you think the wall is going to be just that?

I hope not. But that is enough for this year.

But like I said, the problem just moves to a point of weakness.

To eliminate large areas of weakness is the point of the walls. Eventually, when all the barriers are built, there will be no points of weakness. That is the goal.

Source please.

[B0ycey]

To eliminate large areas of weakness is the point of the walls. Eventually, when all the barriers are built, there will be no points of weakness. That is the goal.

But Trumps final wall (if ever built) is full of weakness actually. Unless you are asking for a dome placed over America and no border points you will have migrants trying to get in whilst the Capitalists are still willing to exploit their Labor. And they will never stop. They will always be there by the border waiting for a chance to get in, whether it be by dingie or walking over the mountains.

Your source is Donald Trump, that bastion of truth as he tries to lobby funding for his wall. I now understand the confusion.

Imprison the exploiters and save your nation billions.

[Drlee]

Well Istumbuller. I think we could pay for the wall by cutting off aid to Afghanistan and Iraq. That would save about 10 Billion a year in aid alone. Maybe give a few billion to our Kurdish allies in Syria and take the rest for the wall you like so much. In fact. Now that we are not paying much aid to Turkey because it could not manage the money properly, we could just let them handle the region. Turkey's thug and chief loves to tell us how powerful he is and how Turkey dominates the region so let's just let them deal with it. Turkey is insistent on becoming more and more estranged from the EU and US so why not.

@Hindsite To eliminate large areas of weakness is the point of the walls. Eventually, when all the barriers are built, there will be no points of weakness. That is the goal.

Actually that is not true. I believe everyone in and out of the government know this is a political vanity project for Trump. In fact he said exactly that:

“I didn’t need to do this,” Trump said. “But I’d rather do it much faster.”

[Hindsite]

Actually that is not true. I believe everyone in and out of the government know this is a political vanity project for Trump. In fact he said exactly that:

Most Democrats claim the wall is Trump's vanity project as a talking point to be against it when in the past they had been for it. The truth is that they only want to prevent Trump from getting any win in hopes of winning the Presidency back in 2020. Trump could have built the wall at a slower pace, but by declaring a national emergency he believes he can build it faster. The experts on the border say the condition at the border has been a crisis for a long time and the Congress have failed to act responsibly to address the problem and they support President Trump's action to do something about it.

[Godstud]

Is Trump telling you it's raining again?

[Drlee]

That is right. He has you fooled Hindsite. On this issue he has all of his followers fooled.

Just so you know, in the selected places where a wall is preferable, democrats have been building them all along. Building a wall across the entire border is not preferable. In fact it is high farce.