[Ter]

It'll be interesting to see whether disconnecting Jews from Israel while attacking Israel will work in terms of voters in the US. I'm guessing that there will be a steady change in party affiliation over time. Self-hating white people, whom we all know would sell out anything if it led to their own popularity, would refuse to see a nexus between Jews and Israel but I don't think that's a strong or convincing argument for the majority of people.

Especially since 70% to 80% of the Jewish votes go to the Democrats.
I was already amazed that this continued during the Obama Presidency, but now we have AOC and two Muslim Democrat members of the House making a lot of Anti Israel noise.
It is indeed very likely that the Jews will vote Republican in 2020.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

One can always trust that eventually any thread turns into an US issue.

------------------------------------------------------

This was obviously a despicable terrorist attack which, as has been alluded to before in this thread, makes one wish we still had the death penalty. In cases like this, I can't see any reason to not just kill the perpetrator - everybody would be better off if the person no longer lived, as far as I can see.

Also, not surprisingly, this will be used to restrict gun laws in NZ by the current government.

[B0ycey]

Also, not surprisingly, this will be used to restrict gun laws in NZ by the current government.

And this is a bad thing?

[Kaiserschmarrn]

And this is a bad thing?

Yes.

[Ter]

Also, not surprisingly, this will be used to restrict gun laws in NZ by the current government.

And why would that be a problem?
The biggest ferocious animal indigenous to New Zealand is the kiwi bird I believe.

[B0ycey]

Yes.

Why? What do you expect to happen with liberal gun laws? There is much talk about terrorism and the death count it causes yet there is neglect to mention 40000 deaths in the US by guns last year.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

And why would that be a problem?
The biggest ferocious animal indigenous to New Zealand is the kiwi bird I believe.

Why? What do you expect to happen with liberal gun laws? There is much talk about terrorism and the death count it causes yet there is neglect to mention 40000 deaths in the US by guns last year.

There were a total of 69 murders with firearms during the last 10 years in NZ.

This is no different to the excuse for having ever more draconian measures that invade privacy rights in response to single, high profile violent incidents.

If personal freedoms are to be maintained, we have to be prepared to assume the risks that come with them.

[B0ycey]

There were a total of 69 murders with firearms during the last 10 years in NZ.

This is no different to the excuse for having ever more draconian measures that invade privacy rights in response to single, high profile violent incidents.

If personal freedoms are to be maintained, we have to be prepared to assume the risks that come with them.

Any law is a restriction of freedom Kaiserschmarrn. You either accept the social contract or you don't. But if you want more freedom in firearm restrictions consider moving from NZ to the US.

As for your point about "draconian measures", governments always place restrictions on things to prevent unnecessary death. It is the reason you have speed limits, prescriptions and age restrictions on buying specific goods. So why you feel the need to be upset with stronger restrictions being placed on something thats sole purpose is to kill astonishes me.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Any law is a restriction of freedom Kaiserschmarrn. You either accept the social contract or you don't. But if you want more freedom in firearm restrictions consider moving from NZ to the US.

As for your point about "draconian measures", governments always place restrictions on things to prevent unnecessary death. It is the reason you have speed limits, prescriptions and age restrictions on buying specific goods. So why you feel the need to be upset with stronger restrictions being placed on something thats sole purpose is to kill astonishes me.

I'd happily move to the US, as long as I can choose where to go. Most places in the US, some of which with the most lenient gun laws, are as safe as if not safer than NZ.

There's always a trade off when it comes to restrictions vs freedoms, and if we look at NZ numbers there's no good reason, other than political posturing and attempts to capitalise from a tragic event, to restrict gun laws further.

[B0ycey]

Perhaps political posturing is a good enough reason actually. If the public want restrictions and there is political motivation to do so because of it, then apart from hindering the likes of Tarrant from his evil ways it also gets you votes.

[redcarpet]

I see the James Fields fans are out in droves, similar garbage. 'He's innocent' 'The whole thing was stated by the NZ government!' 'The story is suspicious' 'Trump isn't to blame, he was NOT inspired by him' 'Gun law liberalisation would prevent this happening again', etc.

Thankfully Milio Yinnapolous re-banned from Australia. Predictably Pauline Hanson's speaks but says NOTHING about the victims, just whimpers this is bad for her party politically, etc.

More broadly, we are seeing instant reaction by NZ to tighten gun laws, opposite reaction by the USA wit Trump of course REFUSING to denounce the perpetrator as a 'terrorist' or 'white supremacist'.

[Atlantis]

@Hindsite, et al., exactly the point I made above:

"From what I have seen he typifies a segment of the population at risk of terrorism - working class European young men, who are vulnerable to feeling redundant, and can’t engage with any of the great things happening in society."

Christchurch terror attack: Life of alleged killer Brenton Tarrant

Like Hitler, a rather untalented young man who harbored all kinds of resentments and who made a small inheritance that allowed him to waste away his life and indulge in an aberrant ideology.

[Zionist Nationalist]

Especially since 70% to 80% of the Jewish votes go to the Democrats.
I was already amazed that this continued during the Obama Presidency, but now we have AOC and two Muslim Democrat members of the House making a lot of Anti Israel noise.
It is indeed very likely that the Jews will vote Republican in 2020.

The left has become our enemy
Just like the labor in UK with corbyn the scum. the Jews must abandon the democratic party if they dont want to give power terrorist sympathizers and to help a anti American party because thats what the democrats have become

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I'm hearing Chelsea Clinton put him up to it.

Sounds about as likely as the musings of a random psychologist who thinks she should make statements about the perpetrator's mental health without having met him.

[Rich]

Like Hitler, a rather untalented young man who harbored all kinds of resentments and who made a small inheritance that allowed him to waste away his life and indulge in an aberrant ideology.

Even getting into the List Regiment was a significant achievement. Even to this day historians are flummoxed, by how he managed to pull that off. Surviving four years at the front, while winning the Iron Cross First Class and having a reputation for bravery was an incredible achievement. Sure it required a lot of luck, but not just luck. Hitler rose from obscurity to lead an empire greater than Alexander's. Hitler was no son of a King like Alexander the Great or Frederick the Great. He was not born into the ruling elite like Churchill or the privileged upper class like Lenin.

Hitler had talent by the shed load. Do I think Germany would done considerably better keeping Schleicher as Chancellor? Yes most certainly, but that can't take away from Hitler's amazing achievements. Some people often seen to lack the intelligence to understand that you can recognise Paul McCartney's huge achievements and talent, without actually liking him or his music.

[Political Interest]

These types of people who carry out such attacks are of a very low breed. More than likely he lacks many talents and is low in altruism, agreeableness, which is patently obvious from his actions, but he was no doubt an angry unpleasant person well before he did this as well.

He is therefore an essentially useless individual. No talent or skills to speak of and not of any value as a man or human person.

There is a significant degree of nihilism in the far right. These people don't want to build stable societies but want to create as much chaos and instability as possible. They love the adrenaline of being provocative. Much like leftist counter-culture activists of years gone by they revel in provocation. Racism has become a type of provocative behaviour that appeals to the lowest elements of society who would otherwise find it through other avenues. All of this is really a type of exhibitionism for anti-social elements. I dare say the vast majority are not motivated by patriotic intentions or sincerity but just like the anger and the hatred. Misanthropic losers, essentially.

[Atlantis]

Hitler had talent by the shed load.

Hitler failed to make a living by honest work. His painting wasn't any good. He participated in a lost war, and didn't even rise in the ranks. Non of this makes him a success.

He had a certain oratory talent that made him convince people to believe in an aberrant ideology at a time of great social unrest. That in itself is a failure since it led to the destruction of his country and much of Europe.

Initial military success were due to the industrial and innovative strength of the country and the fact that some generals had a lucky hand. Hitler himself didn't understand the reasons for the initial military successes and therefore made the subsequent wrong decisions that doomed the whole thing.

As I said, a failure from beginning to end.

[B0ycey]

Yes most certainly, but that can't take away from Hitler's amazing achievements.

Put Hitler along with May and Cameron for what Rich considers great and admirable leaders.

[Hong Wu]

So now this thread is about Hitler's military service in World War I or something...

I think with us looking at 13 weeks of straight violent protests in France and stuff, people are angry. Just calling people fascists because they want the same standards that other people are getting seems to be growing less effective over time, anyway, I'm not trying to endorse the attacks but I do think they are one of the natural outcomes of current policy, along with the far more frequent attacks carried out by Muslims against the natives.

[Rich]

Hitler failed to make a living by honest work. His painting wasn't any good.

Hitler was a competant painter who hadn't yet found his vocation, which was the Army and politics. Before WWI he was a pioneer of what we now refer to as the gig economy.

He participated in a lost war,

So did loads of Russians, Finns, Romainians, slovenes, Croats ........., what of it?

and didn't even rise in the ranks.

He became commander in chief.

He had a certain oratory talent that made him convince people to believe in an aberrant ideology at a time of great social unrest.

Contry to the myth of mindless bullies, both Stalin and Hitler had considerable interpersonal skills.

Initial military success were due to the industrial and innovative strength of the country and the fact that some generals had a lucky hand. Hitler himself didn't understand the reasons for the initial military successes and therefore made the subsequent wrong decisions that doomed the whole thing.

As I said, a failure from beginning to end.

We're no longer buying the myth of Hitler's incompetence. It was not Hitler that lost the war against the Soviet Union. Its my belief that if he'd got rid of Halder in 1940, he would have probably won. There's so much anti Hitler nonsense that has become accepted wisdom. You've still got pretentious idiots like Andrew Roberts backing Guderian in the August 41 debate. Even Halder recognised the necessity of turning south. Something that wouldn't have been necessary if he had given the biggest weight to the southern front as Hitler had wanted.