[Kaiserschmarrn]

It’s a confronting proposition; that the same structures in place at the time when it was out and out colonialism, there for everyone to see, are still in place today, passed off as negligence and petty corruption. That is the essence of what the commission is saying, that is why it’s being labeled ‘genocide’ and why there is debate. And rightly so.

Who wants to accept that reality? Not me. Not your average Canadian who isn’t racist and cherishes their First People.

Is it a hangover of those old colonial days? Or is deliberate? The commission is denying any progress and saying nothing has changed. This is harsh, but maybe it is true. That’s why an investigation into the alleged targeted areas is important. Vested interests can never be too far away.

If the commission really says that nothing has changed that claim can be easily dismissed.

That is also incorrect.

While extermination policies like government inaction on MMIW are ongoing, so are policies designed to remove indigenous children from their communities and raise them as white. There are currently more indigenous kids in white families through foster care than there were in residential schools.

Canada today has no assimilation policy, much less an extermination policy.

[ness31]

If the commission really says that nothing has changed that claim can be easily dismissed.

Well, that was the gist of what I read, granted I didn’t read it all lol. But yeah, that’s what I thought they were saying I’m happy to be corrected.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Well, that was the gist of what I read, granted I didn’t read it all lol. But yeah, that’s what I thought they were saying I’m happy to be corrected.

I wouldn't be surprised if that's the general message that they wanted to get across, considering that they also made a baseless legal case for genocide under international law. They are clearly not impartial actors. That's not to say that everything they say should be dismissed, but their objective is to put pressure on Canada and its government.

[ness31]

I know yourself and others are looking at it from an ‘international law’ perspective, but the commission does admit it has limitations when it comes to legalities. I don’t believe they can follow up on any information they are given or anything like that...as much as that should happen

I see this report as a culmination of frustration and desperation from indigenous women They see what’s happening and yet they’re somewhat powerless to stop it via the proper channels.

I see Canada as a bit of a trailblazer though. It’s women are strong and they’re taking everyone else along for the ride. That’s very special.

I do hope someone pulls their finger out and acts on the most immediate issues like public transport on that highway instead of a greyhound bus

[Pants-of-dog]

Canada today has no assimilation policy, much less an extermination policy.

They do, and I have just given an example of each: inaction on foster care and MMIW respectively.

[QatzelOk]

It was in the past. There's no intent to assimilate the indigenous population now.

This was probably said after each step in the long-term genocide project.

No individual step counts as genocide.
There were no "instantaneous" genocidal actions (like turning on the gas ovens in Nazi Germany).
And neither Pants or Kaiser are able to see history as a constant. They can only analyze post-cards like the media meme that triggered this thread.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

I know yourself and others are looking at it from an ‘international law’ perspective, but the commission does admit it has limitations when it comes to legalities. I don’t believe they can follow up on any information they are given or anything like that...as much as that should happen

I see this report as a culmination of frustration and desperation from indigenous women They see what’s happening and yet they’re somewhat powerless to stop it via the proper channels.

I agree that frustration and desperation quite likely play a role, but this is part of a more general trend to "catastrophise" everything western countries have ever done and what they do today.

I see Canada as a bit of a trailblazer though. It’s women are strong and they’re taking everyone else along for the ride. That’s very special.

I do hope someone pulls their finger out and acts on the most immediate issues like public transport on that highway instead of a greyhound bus

Canada is on the wrong side of history at this point in time. This level of self-flagellation and self-loathing is not sustainable over the long term.

They do, and I have just given an example of each: inaction on foster care and MMIW respectively.

Neither is an example of a policy to assimilate or exterminate.

[Pants-of-dog]

Neither is an example of a policy to assimilate or exterminate.

The current inaction concerning the foster care system is a deliberate policy to assimilate.

The current inaction concerning the MMIW issue is a deliberate policy to exterminate.

In both cases, there is “a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves" primarily through omission of services.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

The current inaction concerning the foster care system is a deliberate policy to assimilate.

The current inaction concerning the MMIW issue is a deliberate policy to exterminate.

In both cases, there is “a coordinated plan of different actions aiming at the destruction of essential foundations of the life of national groups, with the aim of annihilating the groups themselves" primarily through omission of services.

No.

[Unthinking Majority]

Before and after Europeans arrived in Canada, indigenous in Canada enslaved other indigenous tribes, raped them, scalped them, tortured them, and did every other disgusting heinous thing any other human being did to another human being. Are we going to acknowledge indigenous-on-indigenous genocide? If not, why not?


The whole "grievance studies" project is filled with so much selective memory. It's based on this oppressor/oppressed dynamic that often just a bunch of bullshit. Yeah people are oppressed all the time, yeah it's not right, but don't come off as some self-righteous smuck mofo.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Before and after Europeans arrived in Canada, indigenous in Canada enslaved other indigenous tribes, raped them, scalped them, tortured them, and did every other disgusting heinous thing any other human being did to another human being. Are we going to acknowledge indigenous-on-indigenous genocide? If not, why not?

Here in NZ the Maori have a history of warring tribes. The Moriori of the Chatham Islands, a small population of pacifists, paid dearly for their pacifism.

Invasion by Taranaki Māori (1835–1868)
Moriori people in the late 19th century.
Main article: Musket Wars

In 1835 some displaced Ngāti Mutunga and Ngāti Tama, from the Taranaki region, but living in Wellington, invaded the Chathams. On 19 November 1835, the brig Lord Rodney, a hijacked[30] European ship, arrived carrying 500 Māori (men, women and children) with guns, clubs and axes, and loaded with 78 tonnes of potatoes for planting, followed by another load, by the same ship, of 400 more Māori on 5 December 1835. Before the second shipment of people arrived, the invaders killed a 12-year-old girl and hung her flesh on posts.[31] They proceeded to enslave some Moriori and kill and cannibalise others. With the arrival of the second group "parties of warriors armed with muskets, clubs and tomahawks, led by their chiefs, walked through Moriori tribal territories and settlements without warning, permission or greeting. If the districts were wanted by the invaders, they curtly informed the inhabitants that their land had been taken and the Moriori living there were now vassals."[32]

A hui or council of Moriori elders was convened at the settlement called Te Awapatiki. Despite knowing of the Māori predilection for warfare, and despite the admonition by some of the elder chiefs that the principle of Nunuku was not appropriate now, two chiefs — Tapata and Torea — declared that "the law of Nunuku was not a strategy for survival, to be varied as conditions changed; it was a moral imperative."[32] Although this council decided in favour of peace, the invading Māori inferred it was a prelude to war, as was common practice during the Musket Wars. This precipitated a massacre, most complete in the Waitangi area followed by an enslavement of the Morori survivors.[33]

A Moriori survivor recalled : "[The Māori] commenced to kill us like sheep.... [We] were terrified, fled to the bush, concealed ourselves in holes underground, and in any place to escape our enemies. It was of no avail; we were discovered and killed – men, women and children indiscriminately." A Māori conqueror explained, "We took possession... in accordance with our customs and we caught all the people. Not one escaped....." [34] The invaders ritually killed some 10% of the population, a ritual that included staking out women and children on the beach and leaving them to die in great pain over several days.[35]

During the following enslavement the Māori invaders forbade the speaking of the Moriori language. They forced Moriori to desecrate their sacred sites by urinating and defecating on them.[35] Moriori were forbidden to marry Moriori or Māori, or to have children with each other. Which was different from the customary form of slavery practiced on mainland New Zealand.[36] However, many Moriori women had children by their Māori masters. A small number of Moriori women eventually married either Māori or European men. Some were taken from the Chathams and never returned. In 1842 a small party of Māori and their Moriori slaves migrated to the subantarctic Auckland Islands, surviving for some 20 years on sealing and flax growing.[37] Only 101 Moriori out of a population of about 2,000 were left alive by 1862.[38]

You won't be surprised to learn that our politicians don't make a big deal about it.

[Pants-of-dog]

No.

Yes.

In both cases, the government is acting with deliberate intent.

In both cases, indigenous people are solely targeted.

In both cases, the result is the destruction of community. In the case of MMIW, it is the mothers and young women being killed. In the case of foster care, it is a policy of separating families.

--------------

... Are we going to acknowledge indigenous-on-indigenous genocide? If not, why not?

Probably because historical atrocities by indigenous people are not relevant to any existing problems, and the negative impacts have ceased.

The same cannot be said for current acts, or inactions, of Canada.

[ness31]

general trend to "catastrophise" everything western countries have ever done and what they do today.

This is true. And it’s becoming a bit tedious because I’m not convinced it’s necessarily Westerners that are the culprits or that they indeed are turning a blind eye at this point in time

Canada is on the wrong side of history at this point in time. This level of self-flagellation and self-loathing is not sustainable over the long term.

Are they though? They might have a bit of it wrong, but it’s not all wrong.

Also, when I look at where Canada is on a map, and the astonishing diversity of ethnicities that come just from its geographic location I think it’s a massive powerhouse that is healing itself for the long term. I really am in awe.

Canada has polar bears ffs!

Before and after Europeans arrived in Canada, indigenous in Canada enslaved other indigenous tribes, raped them, scalped them, tortured them, and did every other disgusting heinous thing any other human being did to another human being. Are we going to acknowledge indigenous-on-indigenous genocide? If not, why not?

QFT