[foxdemon]

@colliric This is mainly for you to read.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-09-03/where-is-alp-when-hong-kong-needs-it/11470384

Where has the ALP gone when Hong Kong needs it most?

By Kevin Yam
Updated Tue at 11:03am

A crowd of people are photographed close-up, holding red placards that read 'No China Extradition' with a logo of a hand cuffed.
PHOTO: The ALP has a history of standing up to authoritarian regimes. So where is it on Hong Kong? (Reuters: Tyrone Siu)

Before I returned to my birthplace, Hong Kong, to pursue my legal career 18 years ago, I spent 15 years growing up in Melbourne, during which I was an Australian Labor Party supporter.

Even after I left Australia and no longer voted in Australian elections, I continued to cheer on the ALP from afar.

I have always been a mainstream progressive who subscribed to their message of social justice and human rights, but open to economic liberalisation.

When it comes to standing up to authoritarians, the ALP has form.

John Curtin led the fight against fascists during World War II. Ben Chifley dealt firmly with Communist-infiltrated unions. Arthur Calwell spoke firmly against Communist movements. Bob Hawke sided with the US against the Soviets, and he also granted asylum to all Chinese students in the aftermath of the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre.

Bob Hawke becomes emotional speaking about the Tiananmen Square massacre
PHOTO: Bob Hawke was emotional following the Tiananmen Square massacre and went on to grant asylum in Australia to Chinese students.
Kevin Rudd spoke of Australia as authoritarian China's "zhengyou", being a Chinese term for a true friend who is not afraid to express disagreements.

With such history, if there were ever to be an archetype of people with whom Labor should firmly stand, the people of Hong Kong ought to be it.

Labor has stayed silent

Millions of protesters in Hong Kong who have protested in recent months are fighting for the very essence of progressive values: freedom from being extradited to face trial at a non-independent judicial system, freedom from fear when exercising one's fundamental rights, the right to democratic governance. They have the courage to stand up to their authoritarian sovereign.

On July 24, peaceful pro-Hong Kong protesters at the University of Queensland were attacked by a nationalistic Chinese Communist mob.

The attack was later praised by China's consulate-general in Brisbane.

Marise Payne, left, wears a black and white jacket with pearls at her neck as she shakes the hand of Wang Yi, in a suit.
PHOTO: Australia's Foreign Minister Marise Payne has discussed human rights issues with her Chinese counterpart. (Reuters: Athit Perawongmetha)
It prompted Australia's foreign minister Marise Payne to issue a stern statement against such Chinese interference and in defence of free speech.

But the ALP was nowhere to be found.

Then came a similar but larger scale and more expletive-laden incident in Melbourne on August 16, during which an ABC cameraman was pushed over by a pro-Communist Chinese nationalist.

Similar but smaller-scale incidents took place in other Australian cities in those few days.

What did Hongkongers get from the ALP in the aftermath of that weekend?

Victorian Premier Dan Andrews, who signed up to China's Belt and Road initiative, has been conspicuously silent.

As for federal Labor, Penny Wong (who I have long highly respected) made comments about the need for a calm and mature discussion about China.

Balancing interests

Sure, Australia's policy towards China needs to balance competing interests.

But how hard can it be to speak up against Chinese nationalistic bullying against pro-Hong Kong voices on Australia's own shores?

All this has left mainstream progressives like me in an unsatisfactory position of not being able to look to mainstream progressive support for Hong Kong in Australian politics.

The Liberal government has spoken out more than the ALP has in support of Hongkongers' rights within Hong Kong's "One Country, Two Systems" framework under China, but its tone is still circumspect compared with that of other Western nations.


And the most vociferous Australian political voices of support for Hong Kong and against expanding Chinese Communist Party (CCP) authoritarianism comes from the hard right of the Liberal Party.

While they have been right to identify the issues at hand, their rhetoric unhelpfully harks back to that of the Cold War.

But perhaps I should not be so surprised.

Recent hearings at the New South Wales Independent Commission Against Corruption are investigating the extent of relationships between the ALP and persons suspected of being close with the CCP.

More generally, the CCP has long sought to quell criticisms from progressives in the western world by accusing those who question its stance and actions as racists.

It would not surprise me if the ALP would be subject to accusations of discrimination against mainland Chinese students and migrants if it stood more firmly in relation to Hong Kong.

That said, as someone who is proud to be ethnically Chinese, I actually find it more racist for progressives to think that Chinese people are all in the mould of the CCP and that we are culturally disinterested in democracy and human rights.


Further, with many US Democratic Party politicians, some British Labour politicians and some Canadian Liberal Party politicians now standing clearly with Hong Kong, the ALP risks becoming an outlier among English-speaking western progressive parties.

Let me be clear. I am not reflexively against everything that the CCP does.

Its record on economic reform in the past 40 years has been largely positive. Its success in leading the most number of people out of poverty in the shortest period of time in human history should be lauded.

All I ask for is that politicians in democracies such as Australia not shirk from calling out the CCP when it acts contrary to universal values of democracy and human rights, including in relation to Hong Kong.

And given their purported core values, mainstream progressive groups including Labor ought to be on the front lines in speaking up for the courageous people of Hong Kong, as well as for those who stand with Hongkongers on Australian shores.

Kevin Yam is a Hong Kong lawyer and political commentator. The views expressed in this article are his own and do not represent those of his employer or any organisations to which he may belong.

I generally agree with what this guy is saying. He only mentions those active involved in politics. HK has widespread support from ordinary Australians. Anyway...


I am a little disappointed that the author is disappointed about his most vocal support coming from liberal conservative Australians. But he is right to question where have the progressives gone? In fact the progressives are quick to criticise anyone writing in support of HK democracy but conspicuously absent when someone from HK reports about what’s going on.


https://theconversation.com/grattan-on-friday-australia-isnt-avoiding-prodding-the-chinese-bear-122675

The comments below Michelle Gattan’s article on the Conversation illustrate the leftie/progressive attempts to portrait criticism of the Chinese government as racist.


https://johnmenadue.com/james-laurenceson-the-efficacy-of-being-very-vocal-australia-and-human-rights-in-china-acri/


Meanwhile, in response to this article about human rights in China, Anthony Pun would have us believe concern for human rights is ideological bigotry. He also expresses a form of ‘Han man’s burden’ in regard to the Uighur, and victim blaming of any democracy advocates who travel to China.

So we can see the progressives are rooting for the CCP. And the. People wonder why I don’t like progressives

[colliric]

Simply answer to that article is they are not currently in Government, unlike they were during the examples given in the article(all of those examples are Labor Prime Ministers, cept Calwell).

Therefore their opinion is less impactful than that of the current Liberal Government. I'm sure if Labor was in power they would have more to say on the issue. But they're currently the opposition party. All they can do is express bipartisan support given the Liberals have come out in support of Hong Kong.

[Rancid]

the CCP is struggling to control the narrative

Even major establishment mouthpiece The China Daily mentioned the Tienanmen Massacre in an opinion piece promising not to roll tanks over Hong Kongers.

IF true, then I would agree this is damaging for the CCP.

[Rancid]

Looks like the bill will be withdrawn. However, it kind of looks like that might not be enough at this point.

Had they withdrawn in at the beginning this may not have escalated to a point where people want more than just the bill to be escalated.

Still, this could slow down the protests. Maybe this will work for Beijing.

[colliric]

Carrie Lam finally withdrew it.

[Igor Antunov]

so the hong kong guy that killed that Taiwanese chick gets off scot free?

4 more demands to go.

[colliric]

so the hong kong guy that killed that Taiwanese chick gets off scot free?

4 more demands to go.

Well that's what happens when you trying sneak "mainland extradition too" into the bill. They can sort a better deal out with Taiwan later.

[foxdemon]

Simply answer to that article is they are not currently in Government, unlike they were during the examples given in the article(all of those examples are Labor Prime Ministers, cept Calwell).

Therefore their opinion is less impactful than that of the current Liberal Government. I'm sure if Labor was in power they would have more to say on the issue. But they're currently the opposition party. All they can do is express bipartisan support given the Liberals have come out in support of Hong Kong.

Maybe that is it. The Greens have been more vocal in support of HK protesters. I am not a big fan of the Greens, so it feels odd being on the same side as them. One Nation has said nothing.

But it is the ‘Xiists’ (well, they are not Stalinists or Maoists) that are going to be trouble. They are mainly left leaning academics and commie perpetual students. But they can mobilise the progressive middle class. Their pro CCP agenda is a cover for an anti American agenda. There are plenty of them on a John Menadue’s site, if you want to look at their thinking. They will use anti war activism to advance their agenda.



Back to HK,

here is a good article on where the protesters go from here. The issue is that people need trust in the authorities to be restored. Hence the demands for investigations of the police and an amnesty for protesters. Without this, the CCP will just start rounding up those who have been involved in protests.

https://www.hongkongfp.com/2019/09/04/little-late-hong-kong-democrats-protesters-vow-action-despite-extradition-bill-withdrawal/

[skinster]

Second part of the interview that I posted earlier.

[JohnRawls]

https://twitter.com/CarlZha/status/1169272640642535424?s=20



Second part of the interview that I posted earlier.

This is happening because the situation has deteriorated to this point. Its like pointing out that Jewish concentration camp survivors during/after World War 2 are attacking their captors and random pro-Nazi members........ Not really okay but its understandable for lack of a better word. This latest CHINAZI trend in HK is a sign of that.

[skinster]

I didn't know journalists, old men on trains, workers on trains and random passers-by on trains / in the airport were holding the people in HK captive like the uh...Nazis did to uh....their victims in concentration camps.

Interesting... ( )

[colliric]

I bet Skinster would have uploaded this post as proof that France is meddling in Hong Kong affairs.

[AFAIK]

so the hong kong guy that killed that Taiwanese chick gets off scot free?

4 more demands to go.

It's like when someone gets away with murder after being overcharged. The authorities were too ambitious and reached beyond their grasp.

Overcharging- Someone commits 2nd degree murder, gets charged with 1st degree murder, gets found not guilty, cannot be charged again for the same crime, goes free.

[JohnRawls]

I didn't know journalists, old men on trains, workers on trains and random passers-by on trains / in the airport were holding the people in HK captive like the uh...Nazis did to uh....their victims in concentration camps.

Interesting... ( )

Guilty by association basically. As i said, this is not really okay but its understandable for lack of a better word. Mentality of if you are not with us then you are against us especially if you are X always appears in these kind of situations.

[Rancid]

I bet Skinster would have uploaded this post as proof that France is meddling in Hong Kong affairs.

I intend to give Skinster a position in my dictatorship. She's pretty good at being anti-democracy. I approve.

[skinster]

Go home CIA's stenographer, you're drunk.

[colliric]

Go home CIA's stenographer, you're drunk.

??

You do realise the Epoch Times is virulently anti-communist, is essentially the Falun Gong's international newspaper and they're posting that video to show how his legal rights as a foreigner were trashed right? They needed to legally tell him why he was being blocked from egress, surrounded and later arrested. They did not. A simple statement of "You are disturbing the peace and we suspect you are drunk, you can't go this way it's blocked off" would have sufficed, but they did not do this despite the fact that some of the officers clearly speak English. He is legally entitled to be told why he is arrested. He's drunk in public, they are probably right to arrest him, but he clearly was not told anything at all just screamed at and pushed up against a wall. A simple "we believe you are drunk and disorderly sir!" would have been sufficient. Also if you switch on the subtitles it reveals the man was just trying to go home and they are blocking his way home.

https://www.theepochtimes.com/chinese-m ... 64611.html

[skinster]

Sounds like someone didn't watch the whole video. He's not a "foreigner", he's been living in HK for 24 years as he himself states. He was told he couldn't pass through one exit but decided to fight the cops about it, screaming in their faces demanding to know which system they supported, shouting "fuck you", pushing into their stupid shields etc.. Even after this stuff he was warned to stop and the cops backed away and then left. Good job he wasn't in America, since those actions from a protester would normally be responded to with a bullet or few. Then he starts arguing with some other cops and demanding to go the way he was told he couldn't pass. It was then that he was arrested.

The org he works for is funded by the NED.

[colliric]

Sounds like someone didn't watch the whole video. He's not a "foreigner", he's been living in HK for 24 years as he himself states. He was told he couldn't pass through one exit but decided to fight the cops about it. The org he works for is funded by the NED.

He's an American living in Hong Kong. He has the legal right to know why he was being arrested. He needed to go out this exit to go home(revealed in the video's english subtitles, a passerby notes he is just trying to go home), otherwise as he himself states, he'd have to wait until they cleared the exit so he could leave the correct way. He is being blocked from going home.

[skinster]

What are you talking about? He was told he couldn't pass through the exit and tried to push through. Him getting arrested anywhere in the West for such actions would probably be the lucky option. Nearly all of the video is in English except for a few words the HK cops say, with English translations. Watching that video and concluding that the American was the victim here is beyond lol.

Also, the org he works for is funded by the NED.