[Rancid]

The US does spend quite a lot on pro-democracy and related causes in other countries and as long as it does, the door is obviously open for these types of accusations. The west has also made a big deal on much less money being spent on Facebook ads and posts. It's essentially a propaganda war more than anything else and some people are being fully consumed by it.

With that out of the way, people in Hong Kong have good and perfectly rational reasons to oppose more influence of the CCP. Those who think that the protests are down to manipulation and payment by the west need to explain why the people of Hong Kong would support an erosion of its special status.

Great post.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Great post.

Cheers.

[AFAIK]

I like the idea of the CIA being powerful enough to concoct a 2 million strong protest movement out of thin air. I wonder why they don't do so more often.

@skinster Was the CIA behind Occupy central as well?

[colliric]

Hong Kong's protests continue... Yeah!

https://www.9news.com.au/world/hong-kon ... e75e7ef086

Told you they still love Queen Elizabeth II.... Her Majesty's loyal Cantonese ex-subjects.... Planted the Union Jack back where it belongs.

UK can't keep their filthy paws out of anything...

Good..... It was a mistake to give it back to the commie bastards. Should have turned it into a city state in the Commonwealth instead.

[skinster]

Everything is a CIA/West plot to you. Can't something be just shit in some country and people are legitimately protesting against it?

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are? If so, at a minimum you should try to prove how what I posted has no truth behind it. At least one of you guys should try that before crying about how the poor U.S. - which has a long history of infiltration in other countries, alongside so-called colour revolutions - is being unfairly accused of the things it's actually doing.

When I point this stuff out, I provide info which supports my position, I'm not pulling shit out of my ass and if you think I am, prove it. You guys ignore the info and resort to ad-homs as if they are convincing at all. The info I posted is really easy to find if you stray away from the MSM, but that might be too big an ask for you empire babies.

[JohnRawls]

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are? If so, at a minimum you should try to prove how what I posted has no truth behind it. At least one of you guys should try that before crying about how the poor U.S. - which has a long history of infiltration in other countries, alongside so-called colour revolutions - is being unfairly accused of the things it's actually doing.

When I point this stuff out, I provide info which supports my position, I'm not pulling shit out of my ass and if you think I am, prove it. You guys ignore the info and resort to ad-homs as if they are convincing at all. The info I posted is really easy to find if you stray away from the MSM, but that might be too big an ask for you empire babies.

Every country minor/medium/major have different sort of influence groups, think tanks etc. It is a totally different matter when 25% of the populations starts to protest. I am not naive to not understand that we influence and spy on each other even within the EU. We obviously do this a lot more outside of the EU and other countries to other countries. Literally everyone does it.

Now having said that it is a different story when people start blaming everything on outside influence if something happens. Ukranian Maidan was significantly influenced by EU and US but that still wasn't the main reason people went out to protest and topple the government. We might have supported them and encouraged them but it never was the main cause. The main cause was corruption, bad standard of living, wrong course of the country etc.

Same thing about Trump, it wasn't the Russians the elected Trump but the people of America itself.

And now we have Hong Kong here. The protest in Hong Kong is massive. It is 4-5 times larger than Maidan in Ukraine if you count by percentage of population participating. In Ukraine it was single digit percentages while in HK it is around 25%-30%. That kind of number is insane honestly. That means that almost 80-90% of the population actually support what the protesters are doing in HK.

You are trying to imply that CIA managed to brainwash 1.5+ million people to participate and 6-7+ million to support some idea. Are you crazy? You think that they have brainwashing death rays or something?

[skinster]

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are? If so, at a minimum you should try to prove how what I posted has no truth behind it.

[JohnRawls]

@skinster

I know you "unintentionally miss" things from posts. But @Kaiserschmarrn posted about this. I said relatively the same thing to you for the last 3-4 pages now....

The US does spend quite a lot on pro-democracy and related causes in other countries and as long as it does, the door is obviously open for these types of accusations. The west has also made a big deal on much less money being spent on Facebook ads and posts. It's essentially a propaganda war more than anything else and some people are being fully consumed by it.

With that out of the way, people in Hong Kong have good and perfectly rational reasons to oppose more influence of the CCP. Those who think that the protests are down to manipulation and payment by the west need to explain why the people of Hong Kong would support an erosion of its special status.

[skinster]

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are? If so, at a minimum you should try to prove how what I posted has no truth behind it.

[JohnRawls]

I guess this is the last time we gonna speak in on-topic forums. You simply don't listen. There is no point in debating anything with you if you are just going post the same thing, not listen and well spam twitter. Everything is a Mossad/Cia job apparently.

[Sivad]

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are?

There's no need to deny it, occassionally the interests of imperialism align with those of civil society and when the alternative is domination by gulagists only a fucking fool would look that gift horse in the mouth.

[Kaiserschmarrn]

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are? If so, at a minimum you should try to prove how what I posted has no truth behind it.

To get to the central point here, you'd have to answer the question. Do you believe that the people of Hong Kong have good reason to oppose CCP influence over them?

[Sivad]

The irony here of course is that the Chicom gulagists have taken hundreds and hundreds of billions of dollars from the US. The US imperialists have spent the last 5 decades building out the gulag capitalism that is modern China.

[ThirdTerm]

Some protesters turned themselves into violent mobs. In the worst case scenario, China will declare martial law and do whatever it wants against Hongkongers. These protesters need to calm down and they should not give China an excuse to impose direct military control on Hong Kong. The extradition bill will expire by the end of the term.

Hong Kong, a former British colony, is part of China but run under a "one country, two systems" arrangement that guarantees it a level of autonomy. Its citizens enjoy rights not seen on the mainland.

Monday's disorder followed weeks of mass protests over a controversial extradition bill, which critics have said could be used to send political dissidents from Hong Kong to the mainland.

The Chinese government said the ransacking of parliament was a blatant challenge to the "one country, two systems" formula.

So far, Beijing has reacted to the protests from a distance, but Monday's violence could be a catalyst for Beijing to push for tighter control over Hong Kong, says BBC World Service Asia-Pacific editor Celia Hatton.

Hong Kong's leader Carrie Lam earlier made similar remarks, condemning the "extreme use of violence" by the protesters who had broken into LegCo.

[colliric]

Some protesters turned themselves into violent mobs. In the worst case scenario, China will declare martial law and do whatever it wants against Hongkongers. These protesters need to calm down and they should not give China an excuse to impose direct military control on Hong Kong. The extradition bill will expire by the end of the term.

They won't impose military control, the UK has finally started to voice it's opinion thank goodness. China will not be able to Tiananmen '89 the place. Carrie Lam is going to be pushed out. That's what all sides want at this point. The question is when, they obviously can't appear to do it publically now, but maybe when the protests have died down a bit?

[Sivad]

Carrie Lam is going to be pushed out.

That won't be any great victory, Beijing will just install another puppet.

[skinster]

To get to the central point here, you'd have to answer the question. Do you believe that the people of Hong Kong have good reason to oppose CCP influence over them?

If by influence you mean an extradition treaty for crimes like murder, no I don't think that's a huge deal, the same is a thing all over the world.

Still, my main point was posting that U.S. NGOs are funding some of the opposition as is evidenced by the things in the article I posted. I don't know why so many are turning into babies over this news as though it's anything new, the U.S. is always doing this.

There's no need to deny it, occassionally the interests of imperialism align with those of civil society and when the alternative is domination by gulagists only a fucking fool would look that gift horse in the mouth.

Is it really "domination" when it's called an extradition treaty based on an actual crime of a killer of a Chinese woman who fled to Hong Kong?

I'd agree it would be "domination" if China went into Hong Kong with tanks et all and took over, but that's not happening. so you might want to settle down with that hysteria.

[colliric]

https://www.ft.com/content/10924fca-9da ... 640c9feebb

Britain isn't letting this go. Good.

How dare the Chinese threaten to violate the 1984 agreement on Hong Kong. How dare Beijing think it's above international law.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-48855643

Britain has the right to DEMAND China keep to the 2047 timetable.

I hope the Chinese ambassador got chewed out in the Foreign Office.

This is an affair that involves Britain weather you like it or not.

[Patrickov]

Are you denying the National Endowment for Democracy has been funding various orgs and organisers involved in the protests in Hong Kong, despite me providing articles which prove they are? If so, at a minimum you should try to prove how what I posted has no truth behind it. At least one of you guys should try that before crying about how the poor U.S. - which has a long history of infiltration in other countries, alongside so-called colour revolutions - is being unfairly accused of the things it's actually doing.

When I point this stuff out, I provide info which supports my position, I'm not pulling shit out of my ass and if you think I am, prove it. You guys ignore the info and resort to ad-homs as if they are convincing at all. The info I posted is really easy to find if you stray away from the MSM, but that might be too big an ask for you empire babies.

You are the one who needs to prove something. Prove that this operation is directly responsible for all the participants.

If your claim is to hold, you need to prove that the NEC is responsible for my entire extended family's opinion and action.

As @JohnRawls said, having so many people agreeing is an entirely different thing. If you keep denying all our independent thinking, Noemon Edit: Rule 2 Violation

[colliric]

Calm down guys. We need to have civilized debates.

We can say "Fuck the CCP.... Hong Kong & Taiwan Independence forever!!!" Without having to resort to caps.