- 23 Oct 2019 11:33
#15044245
So what you are saying is that you agree with me. Western governments use moral arguments to sway popular support for their adventurism. And that adventurism hasn’t really had a long term goal. Ok, so let’s move on...
Let’s step back from Kurdistan and look at the big picture in the ME. It looks like the Americans will get turfed out of Iraq also.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/iraq-troops-leaving-syria-approval-stay-191022084630834.html
This is a set back for the Americans, but they aren’t dependent on ME oil. They are there to maintain influence and spoil rival powers access to oil. The Russians are there for the same reason.
The powers that are dependent on ME energy are Europe, India, Japan and China. So we can expect these powers to get involved in securing their energy supplies.
India and Japan are going to escort their own shipping, neither wishing to join the US lead initiative in order to maintain relations with Iran.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-india/indian-warships-to-stay-longer-in-persian-gulf-but-wont-join-us-coalition-idUSKCN1UD22S
https://en.radiofarda.com/a/japan-tells-us-it-will-send-warships-to-persian-gulf-but-not-join-coalition/30231907.html
Meanwhile, China has Pakistan by the short and curlies.
https://tass.com/pressreview/1082149
So I think looks like the EU is going to be the big loser here. Europe can’t even protect it’s own waters around Cyprus, let alone secure shipping in the Persian gulf. And then there is the prospect of terrorists returning ‘home’ and a new wave of refugees. But all we see from Europe is sanctions, moral posturing and sternly worded statements.
Surely you must agree that Europe needs a more cohesive approach to strategy?
Atlantis wrote:I don't even know where to start untangling the mess in your thinking.
Neocon policies had nothing to do with "romanticism". They had nothing to do with "popularist moralism" or with "social democracy". And then you throw in "Hitler" for good measure. All of this gets tangled in your mind like Polish nationalists fabricate a straw man by putting "driving a bicycle," "eating vegetarian", "civil rights for gays", etc., all in one basket.
The neocons used "human rights" as pretext to justify imperial expansion (remember, "take 7 counties in 5 years"). That's a classic. In antiquity, they used god and religion as pretext for foreign conquests. It sounds a lot better to say that I have to kill you because you don't worship my god than to say I kill you to steal your property and fuck your wife.
The neocons, by pretending to defend human rights, have actually damaged human rights and democracy, both at home and abroad. That's why Trump won to destroy US democracy and fuck with human rights.
That doesn't mean that those who have always defended human rights and opposed neocon policies are wrong. On the contrary, it means they have always been right.
What you say about French invasions is totally muddled too. I think you just don't understand European politics. You are from down-under aren't you?
The French together with the British (both former imperial powers) bombed Libya by using human rights as a pretext to get control over the oil fields. When that shit show went wrong too, the Brits just buggered off while the French at least had the moral rectitude to face the consequences and help Mali defend itself against the terrorist groups that resulted from the bombing of Libya. The Germans, even though they had stayed out of Libya, joined the French in Africa as part of European solidarity, even though they certainly didn't want to send soldiers to Africa.
It's hard to understand how you concocted your story from these facts.
So what you are saying is that you agree with me. Western governments use moral arguments to sway popular support for their adventurism. And that adventurism hasn’t really had a long term goal. Ok, so let’s move on...
Let’s step back from Kurdistan and look at the big picture in the ME. It looks like the Americans will get turfed out of Iraq also.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/10/iraq-troops-leaving-syria-approval-stay-191022084630834.html
This is a set back for the Americans, but they aren’t dependent on ME oil. They are there to maintain influence and spoil rival powers access to oil. The Russians are there for the same reason.
The powers that are dependent on ME energy are Europe, India, Japan and China. So we can expect these powers to get involved in securing their energy supplies.
India and Japan are going to escort their own shipping, neither wishing to join the US lead initiative in order to maintain relations with Iran.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-iran-india/indian-warships-to-stay-longer-in-persian-gulf-but-wont-join-us-coalition-idUSKCN1UD22S
https://en.radiofarda.com/a/japan-tells-us-it-will-send-warships-to-persian-gulf-but-not-join-coalition/30231907.html
Meanwhile, China has Pakistan by the short and curlies.
https://tass.com/pressreview/1082149
Talks between Chinese President Xi Jinping, Prime Minister Li Keqiang and Pakistan’s Prime Minister Imran Khan are underway in Beijing. As Pakistan is facing an economic crisis, it has no option but to ask China for more investment and assistance. In return for that, the Chinese Navy will get the right to use Pakistan’s sea ports, Nezavisimaya Gazeta writes.
So I think looks like the EU is going to be the big loser here. Europe can’t even protect it’s own waters around Cyprus, let alone secure shipping in the Persian gulf. And then there is the prospect of terrorists returning ‘home’ and a new wave of refugees. But all we see from Europe is sanctions, moral posturing and sternly worded statements.
Surely you must agree that Europe needs a more cohesive approach to strategy?