[Potemkin]

Trump probably made a deal with Putin, dirt on Biden in exchange for the ME.

You're assuming that Trump is halfway competent, Atlantis. My guess is, he sold the Middle East to Putin and got a time-share condo in Tenerife in exchange. Lol!

[Beren]

Trump probably made a deal with Putin, dirt on Biden in exchange for the ME.

It's rather Trump dancing to Putin's tune.

[Potemkin]

It's rather Trump dancing to Putin's tune.

...And not even realising that he's doing it.

[Red_Army]

Trump is like a Las Vegas nightclub. He can't even listen to a retarded popsong for the full 90 seconds. He's just a carousel of 15 seconds of the 9 dumbest opinions next to him.

[Beren]

...And not even realising that he's doing it.

In my opinion he very well is.

[Atlantis]

You're assuming that Trump is halfway competent, Atlantis. My guess is, he sold the Middle East to Putin and got a time-share condo in Tenerife in exchange. Lol!

Why should Putin sacrifice a time-share condo in Tenerife if all it takes to convince Trump is some fake news on Biden? Putin has plenty of fake news.

[Potemkin]

In my opinion he very well is.

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, Beren. But in my opinion, everything Trump has done so far can be explained as simple incompetence. That, combined with his narcissistic arrogance, is a toxic mix. Under normal circumstances, this would merely result in yet another failed casino in Vegas. Unfortunately, he happens to be the POTUS.... Lol.

[Beren]

We'll just have to agree to disagree on that one, Beren. But in my opinion, everything Trump has done so far can be explained as simple incompetence. That, combined with his narcissistic arrogance, is a toxic mix. Under normal circumstances, this would merely result in yet another failed casino in Vegas. Unfortunately, he happens to be the POTUS.... Lol.

It's not Trump's incompetence but Putin's competence that matters here. Trump doesn't have a clue about anything outside the US, so the only thing he can do is to deliver to his foreign patrons, and with Bibi's falling Putin's become the most senior of them.

[Presvias]

Why should Putin sacrifice a time-share condo in Tenerife if all it takes to convince Trump is some fake news on Biden? Putin has plenty of fake news.

It seems apparent that Putin's got loads of real leverage on Trump, there may well be underage Russian women in shady hotels involved, or other big stuff involved wrt Trump's dealings with the Russians. I don't think Trump is doing anything other than following orders. No doubt Surkov is responsible, along with Bannon, of coordinating this with the Euro alt-right and others.

Of course, there are many unknowing self-aggrandizing shills out there being exploited for their naivety and personality defects, which is a shame. It never ceases to amaze me how alt rightees blame everyone else of having 'false consciousness'.

[Atlantis]

in my opinion, everything Trump has done so far can be explained as simple incompetence.

That depends on the objective. If you consider his objective to be the defense of US interests, then yes, he's been extraordinarily incompetent, or downright negligent. If you consider that he first of all aims at playing to the gallery (of his supporters), then he has been more gifted than most of his rivals.

[Beren]

That depends on the objective. If you consider his objective to be the defense of US interests, then yes, he's been extraordinarily incompetent, or downright negligent. If you consider that he first of all aims at playing to the gallery (of his supporters), then he has been more gifted than most of his rivals.

I wonder if how that move helps him in that regard. Most Americans, including many of his fans, won't like this.

[Potemkin]

That depends on the objective. If you consider his objective to be the defense of US interests, then yes, he's been extraordinarily incompetent, or downright negligent. If you consider that he first of all aims at playing to the gallery (of his supporters), then he has been more gifted than most of his rivals.

What Beren said. Even his most loyal fans are having a hard time accepting this, Atlantis. Trump, with one decision, has just pissed away America's entire strategy in Syria since 2011. All those American lives and treasure, wasted. This benefits no-one except America's enemies. My personal feeling, for what it's worth, is that Trump was simply trying to deliver on one of his election promises, to bring the troops home and to avoid these endless wars the neo-cons got the US to prosecute on their behalf. But, being Trump, he has gone about it in an incompetent, impulsive and ultimately disastrous manner.

[Beren]

What Beren said. Even his most loyal fans are having a hard time accepting this, Atlantis. Trump, with one decision, has just pissed away America's entire strategy in Syria since 2011. All those American lives and treasure, wasted. This benefits no-one except America's enemies. My personal feeling, for what it's worth, is that Trump was simply trying to deliver on one of his election promises, to bring the troops home and to avoid these endless wars the neo-cons got the US to prosecute on their behalf. But, being Trump, he has gone about it in an incompetent, impulsive and ultimately disastrous manner.

But he may have expected something like that when he said the Kurds hadn't been there with them in Normandy.

[Istanbuller]

It is still too early to talk but all those reactions to this operation can be classified into two rooms. One is coming from Anglos. Other camp is continental Europe. Anglos are more sane and balanced while continentals are doing useless things like arms sanctions. What on earth are they living on? Turkey has an advanced defence industry and it is not dependent on anyone regarding this matter.

Here is the video showing Turkey tested its on air defence system today. Sooner it will not be dependent on buying s-400 or Patriots.

[Presvias]

It is still too early to talk but all those reactions to this operation can be classified into two rooms. One is coming from Anglos. Other camp is continental Europe. Anglos are more sane and balanced while continentals are doing useless things like arms sanctions. What on earth are they living on? Turkey has an advanced defence industry and it is not dependent on anyone regarding this matter.

Here is the video showing Turkey tested its on air defence system today. Sooner it will not be dependent on buying s-400 or Patriots.

Did it ever occur to you that maybe someone is setting a trap for Turkey? We know Erdogan hates those pesky Kurds, even though they were given some representation in govt, plus the hordes in Diyarbakir needed quieting, but everyone knew what would happen when Trump pulled troops out...and the whole things looks so contrived.

But feel free to shout "TURKIYE!" as much as you want, but when you fall into the trap and get accused of killing US troops who shouldn't be there in the first place, causing 'the west' to come down on you like a tonne of bricks, I'll say "I told you so"..

[JohnRawls]

Did it ever occur to you that maybe someone is setting a trap for Turkey? We know Erdogan hates those pesky Kurds, even though they were given some representation in govt, plus the hordes in Diyarbakir needed quieting, but everyone knew what would happen when Trump pulled troops out...and the whole things looks so contrived.

But feel free to shout "TURKIYE!" as much as you want, but when you fall into the trap and get accused of killing US troops who shouldn't be there in the first place, causing 'the west' to come down on you like a tonne of bricks, I'll say "I told you so"..

Absolutely fucking not. We need to wait a bit for Turkey to actually move the refugees there. After that we will sanction their economy and ask Turkey to unoccupy the Kurdish lands in Syria. If Turkey refuses to move refugees or unoccupy the land after the fact then we will crash their economy to pieces.

[Presvias]

"Absolutely fucking not" what?...

[SpecialOlympian]

Lmao if you thought for even a second that the moronic speed freak president gave any consideration to this or that he had any idea what consequences there will be.

[Istanbuller]

Northern Syria is overwhelmingly Arabic. There are just Kurdish minorities living in separate regions. Turkey is making operation against terrorist organizations. It doesn't have to do anything with ethinicities.

Those areas Turkey liberated will not be handed to American-backed groups or Assad. It will be handed to a future democratically elected Syrian government. We are hoping that.

[JohnRawls]

"Absolutely fucking not" what?...

We shouldn't interfere and Turkey needs to achieve victory against the Kurds in Syria as fast as possible. Military strikes or real sanctions will impede that victory or might even prevent it. Turkey chose this route themselves, they see it as an existential issue.

I do not see a problem with us using Turkey to solve our problems. They view it as an internal issue so we got that going for us. We never had the will to actually stop the immigration crysis using force but Turkey is planning to do it as we speak. (The Balkan route) Problem is that we can't trust Erdogan on this so we need to be ready with real economic sanctions at some point to either force him to move the refugees there OR to force him to leave Syrian territory.

Some of the people here wanted Europe and US to be on the "Right side of history". Well this is a good plan to be on the right side of history for US/EU and make the US look like its in charge when Turkish forces eventually leave Syrian territory.

Look at this from a pragmatic perspective:
1) We eliminate or severely ease the immigration situation through the Balkan route which leads to great benefits to Greece and Balkan countries. Also to EU overall.
2) We eliminate Erdogan leverage with the flood gate bullshit.
3) US gains an ally in northern Syria again who might be willing to fight Assad more than the Kurds.
4) Turkey still remains a NATO member and partner to EU/US.
5) Erdogan gets his victorious war.
6) US will be able to come on top in a sense that it will be their initiative to "Free" northern Syria. Trump strong!!! Or whoever is in charge at that point.