39 Chinese people found dead in a lorry in Essex, UK - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15045186
Tainari88 wrote:Verv, that is why being a nationalist is no solution. The reason these people MOVE the hell out and risk life and limb is that the money they make in their home nations is abysmal. You got to do the international workers and international long term plan so people can stay the hell PUT in their own economies and their own nations. Some nations being rich and having jobs and others being poor and can't even feed themselves is a recipe for ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

Thinking that only look out for ME and my country and fuck the rest of the world? That is stupid in the extreme.

Human beings are not going to stay put in a country where they can't get an education, they don't have job prospects, they can't get ahead and they can't work and they feel trapped by crime, lack of health care, lack of housing and lack of everything. It is forcing them to leave.

If you think being a selfish rah-rah nationalist with racist policies is going to solve the issues on a global scale? You are wrong. Period.

Capitalism loves cheap labor. They will pervert the laws of the USA and of every other nation for cheap exploitation. You can keep thinking it is the greatest system the world has ever known but it not into nationalistic America I love you....tis of thee. They DON'T GIVE A SHIT. They will be out there getting a profit. If it means like Sivad talks about cheap tacos and so on? Then they will do it.

They are internationalists. The solution has to be internationalist. Nationalism is LIMITED in its ability to solve that issue.

It should be obvious to many that is what the problem is. But somehow people are so blinded by American or British or whatever exceptionalism that they fail to realize we aint living in isolated pockets of human life anymore. People MOVE and information moves and thinking you can force the poor nations to never have poor people fleeing? A pipe dream. BE REALISTIC. Help the ones that are desperate so they stay put. Talking shit and being selfish doesn't solve any problems.


First of all, I never know how to engage someone when I know that the post is emotional and can revert to pure emotion and accusations that I have the wrong emotions at any minute. So I am going to ignore the emotive aspects of your post.

Let me share a few ideas that I have...

I. Vietnam is not hell. I have not been there yet, but I have the good fortune of having a very close Vietnamese colleague who grew up rather poor. Vietnam is a place where life can be difficult but there is not issues of mass starvation or anything. Sure, you make something like $500 to $1,000 a month and this is not enough to actualize your dream of a three car garage, but lunch costs $1 and beer is cheaper.

I believe there are circumstances which can be very negative there, sure, and I am certainly not jealous, but I do not think that it being a difficult place justifies open borders.

II. Nationalism is good. Every nation can dictate its national trade policies to serve their own direct interests. There won't be American billionaires forcing Kenya to open up its markets if the government has a backbone and stands up to them.

Nationalism will not solve everything, but the status quo that enables 39 aZns to die in the back of a truck have been created by globalists that do not want to see immigration laws enfroced because they want higher profit margins.

III. I love the rest of the world! I want the rest of the world to stay similar to what they are as today in the sense that I enjoy cultures and languages being preserved.

I want to see Mexicans and Palestinians and Tamils maintain their distinctive identities because I love them -- this is the core of nationalism.

Globalists, like you, end up promoting a global monoculture that destroys differences and slowly turns everyone into cosmopolitan consumers.

Of course, I am generalizing your view slightly, but you do so far more ridiculously when you talk about my view. It would certainly be a double standard if you expected me to treat your views with more nuance in spite of the fact that I have already been treatign them with more respect than you treat mine.

You think that you are a very nice person and that this enables you to yell at me, but I think that when you yell at me it actually shows that you are not nice. You are nice to those who are nice to you and agree with you, and you are being a jerk towards people who disagree with you.

The Bible says if you love others who love you, what reward will you get? Even the tax colelctors do that. (Matthew 5:46).

You should love me especially because I am your enemy.

Now, come in for a hug, friend!
#15045190
@Verv I don't think you'll find many people(or globalists), anywhere, that want a 'monoculture', as you put it. I think what people want is for people to embrace the differences and not see them as point of conflict, but merely different points of view, or different ways of doing things.

Viva la difference! As they say.
#15045192
Verv wrote:First of all, I never know how to engage someone when I know that the post is emotional and can revert to pure emotion and accusations that I have the wrong emotions at any minute. So I am going to ignore the emotive aspects of your post.

Let me share a few ideas that I have...

I. Vietnam is not hell. I have not been there yet, but I have the good fortune of having a very close Vietnamese colleague who grew up rather poor. Vietnam is a place where life can be difficult but there is not issues of mass starvation or anything. Sure, you make something like $500 to $1,000 a month and this is not enough to actualize your dream of a three car garage, but lunch costs $1 and beer is cheaper.

I believe there are circumstances which can be very negative there, sure, and I am certainly not jealous, but I do not think that it being a difficult place justifies open borders.

II. Nationalism is good. Every nation can dictate its national trade policies to serve their own direct interests. There won't be American billionaires forcing Kenya to open up its markets if the government has a backbone and stands up to them.

Nationalism will not solve everything, but the status quo that enables 39 aZns to die in the back of a truck have been created by globalists that do not want to see immigration laws enfroced because they want higher profit margins.

III. I love the rest of the world! I want the rest of the world to stay similar to what they are as today in the sense that I enjoy cultures and languages being preserved.

I want to see Mexicans and Palestinians and Tamils maintain their distinctive identities because I love them -- this is the core of nationalism.

Globalists, like you, end up promoting a global monoculture that destroys differences and slowly turns everyone into cosmopolitan consumers.

Of course, I am generalizing your view slightly, but you do so far more ridiculously when you talk about my view. It would certainly be a double standard if you expected me to treat your views with more nuance in spite of the fact that I have already been treatign them with more respect than you treat mine.

You think that you are a very nice person and that this enables you to yell at me, but I think that when you yell at me it actually shows that you are not nice. You are nice to those who are nice to you and agree with you, and you are being a jerk towards people who disagree with you.

The Bible says if you love others who love you, what reward will you get? Even the tax colelctors do that. (Matthew 5:46).

You should love me especially because I am your enemy.

Now, come in for a hug, friend!


No Verv, I am realistic. I am not going to get along with everyone. That is not realistic in life. There will be always conflict. What I need to do with someone like you is to be respectful and keep my distance. I don't believe in hypocrisy. And what you read as emotive? It is just normal stuff for my culture Verv. Dispassionate discourse is not what I grew up with.

No, I disagree with a lot of people. And get along with them. No, the issue I have with you is your personality. I don't like it. I am honest that way Verv.

I am not a globalist. Lol. I am a person who believes in the validity of many cultures.

This is the quote I would like to address Verv:

Nationalism will not solve everything, but the status quo that enables 39 aZns to die in the back of a truck have been created by globalists that do not want to see immigration laws enfroced because they want higher profit margins.





Status quo is capitalism with people migrating and immigrating because the stability is not there in their home nations.

You instead of seeing them as what they are? What? See them as needing to be contained. The solution is what I wrote earlier. Deal with seeing them as equals and deal with them like equals. Everything emanates from that.

If you are a nationalist like you have written about Verv? You don't believe in that equality. You don't.

So? It is not something I will share with you.

Political Interest is from the Right. I like him a lot. So are a lot of others. You? It is about your personality Verv....your mask slipped a few times and I don't think you are sincere in any of this. Sorry. I don't think you are.
#15045193
Rancid wrote:What?

The American Dream is totally achievable*

* if you have 1 million in seed money to start with.


Here is your new speech Rancid:

Rancid after getting a great haircut and some fine Italian suit....addresses the crowd in Austin who show up at his political campaign:

My fellow American Dreamers and who know deep in their hearts that the land of milk and honey is real....I, Rancid, the son of Dominican immigrants salute you!

As you all know, Austin is the capitol of the great state of Texas. Our Lone Star state...I too am a lone star...alone in my quest to make the American Dream come back to each of your homes in this great land. I skateboarded the streets of Florida, but only dreamed of becoming an engineer, as I fled the inquiries of the Miami Police Department. I as a man of color....knew that anyone can achieve the American Dream....if they only BELIEVE in it!!

The light in front is the one you need to pay attention to. That light is the light of SUCCESS... Not the one you left behind as the cops chased you on a skateboard....as your Grandmother from Santo Domingo called you in to eat Mangu...no.....I know that all of you share my deepest love of this great nation, who has afforded me the possibilities of international travel, and international opportunities,. but only the American nation has all I need for success....because once my family arrived and worked hard everyday that I hardly saw them....I knew that this land was made for you and me....

The seed money for this campaign from the American Dreamer of Austin who knows the path to SUCCESS....starts with you...the ones who see true champions in every heart, every mind, and every station.....Not all of us can be high flyers but I can let you hang on to my Coattails and we shall fly together over the plains of Texas, the Rocky Mountains the Ozarks, and the everglades and we shall squeeze the Dream out of the very air we breathe AMERICA YOU SHALL GIVE US THE DREAM!

As the great Freddy sang I will play the bass for all of you....but first I will start with:



As you can tell my peeps....it has not been a bed of roses for this Dominican man who made all the right moves....

But it is time for all of you to realize--I care about your American Dream. Your dream is my dream, your tears are my tears, your joy is my joy, your happiness is my happiness, your orgasms about America is my orgasms about America.

Join me!

The crowd goes wild....."Rancid for PREZ!! ES EL CHINGON DE AUSTIN!!!"

Seed money...here it comes....Tainari passes the basket. :D :lol: :lol:
#15045194
Godstud wrote:@Verv I don't think you'll find many people(or globalists), anywhere, that want a 'monoculture', as you put it. I think what people want is for people to embrace the differences and not see them as point of conflict, but merely different points of view, or different ways of doing things.

Viva la difference! As they say.


Right -- but I think that for many places to retain their distinctive characteristics and culture, we have to not promote massive population movements. That would be my big thing.

I agree with you totally with the point of conflict thing... We have to get to a point where we always agree to let people do what they want with their own land and society.

We should only intervene by putting sanctions on countries with human rights abuses... And no, it's not acceptable to pretend Iran is the greatest threat to world peace and slap them with sanctions while China ethnically cleanses the Uighurs and we get up a feeble series of sanctions on only specific companies.
#15045195
Tainari88 wrote:No Verv, I am realistic. I am not going to get along with everyone. That is not realistic in life. There will be always conflict. What I need to do with someone like you is to be respectful and keep my distance. I don't believe in hypocrisy. And what you read as emotive? It is just normal stuff for my culture Verv. Dispassionate discourse is not what I grew up with.

No, I disagree with a lot of people. And get along with them. No, the issue I have with you is your personality. I don't like it. I am honest that way Verv.

I am not a globalist. Lol. I am a person who believes in the validity of many cultures.


Passion is OK but when it is the dominant theme in the discussion then it is useless and a distraction.

Status quo is capitalism with people migrating and immigrating because the stability is not there in their home nations.


And, agents of globalism should leave them alone and let them form governments and carve out on their own fate.

You instead of seeing them as what they are? What? See them as needing to be contained. The solution is what I wrote earlier. Deal with seeing them as equals and deal with them like equals. Everything emanates from that.

If you are a nationalist like you have written about Verv? You don't believe in that equality. You don't.

So? It is not something I will share with you.

Political Interest is from the Right. I like him a lot. So are a lot of others. You? It is about your personality Verv....your mask slipped a few times and I don't think you are sincere in any of this. Sorry. I don't think you are.


Don't believe in equality... In what sense?

I do not believe all cultures are equal -- but nobody does. I do not believe all people are equal in their capacities for economic production or some such, either.

But we are all equal before God!

We will inherit the Kingdom of God through loving God with all our heart and mind, and loving our neighbor as ourselves.

But, I will only allow this to be a part of my politics if you agree to live in a theomimetic diarchy with me in which the Church and the Emperor divide power and promise to emulate God.

Otherwise, I do not want to hear about how you think I am some kind of hypocrite because I don't want total wealth redistribution. Unless you want to stop aborting babies and fundamentally restructure everything.
#15045210
Verv wrote:Passion is OK but when it is the dominant theme in the discussion then it is useless and a distraction.

What dominant theme in a discussion? This thread is about 39 Chinese migrants who died in a lorry in Essex, UK. Noemon posted it and I commented about my personal experience with someone who wanted me to pick up her child who was smuggled in and almost could have been another statistic. Why? Why did I mention that experience? Because many people in poor countries have these pack of lies about what the USA is about Verv. That they will get here and get a job and make money and change their lives. And instead it is fear, and worry and running and being unstable and nothing getting done for them in terms of true improvement. People flee their homes not out of some fickle thing Verv. They do it out of a need to get away from dysfunction. I try to examine what the causes for it are. That is what all of us should do. But if you get stuck on legalities? You miss the forest for the trees.



And, agents of globalism should leave them alone and let them form governments and carve out on their own fate.


You don't get it? They can't leave them alone Verv. There is a reason none of them can live in peace. There is a reason why most of them do crazy stuff like spend $39,000 to get to Essex. They think that in that other society they have a chance at making more money and being more successful in some other country. Why do they believe in that? The nations they live in Verv are filled with messages about the lifestyle lived. Did you ever see a movie called EL NORTE? Put out by Sundance festival of Robert Redford's film thing from Utah. It is from the 1980's. It is about this brother and sister who can't stay in Guatemala because there is horrible violence and genocide and civil war going on....and they got to flee. They go up North. Looking for a better life. They don't find it. They find tragedy and disappointment. Why? Because their entire way of life is not about the new culture. Their value system is not about the USA's. The way they think is not about any of the reality of living in the USA. It is a comment about how human beings are having to face the reality that what they think is true is not true, and how they think something they know about turns out that they belong NO WHERE and they are not in any way accepted anywhere, having to live without a sense of roots anymore...and what kinds of values they wind up dealing with and living. It is interesting.


Don't believe in equality... In what sense?


Verv it is really simple. I see it very simply. My mother taught me long ago that no matter who I met and no matter what culture that person was from and how they are speaking a different language or had different ideas or had any kind of difference in truth....we were the same. All of us. Everyone. It did not matter if the person was American or not, or some nationality, or some other person with other rules they followed. Everyone is your equal. Eliminate the sense of separation. Nationalism is a type of segregation but it is used to unite people. Instead you get it as a reason to say, Äliens...creatures from another planet....fear. Lol. Human beings are ínvading...yeah Verv the humans have been invading each other and invading lands that are not their home territories since the first Hominid walked the Earth.....Since the first band of hominids walked looking for berries and wandered too far from the foraging areas...Xenophobia and fear of strangers is part of the human psyche. But you got to get over it. Got to realize other humans doesn't mean that you won't be eating dinner tonight because they are gonna steal your food. Lol. Human societies are a lot more inclusive than when the hominids slept in the trees only. And even they would accept new strangers in their midst. If they did not too many inbred people and bad genetic realities.

I do not believe all cultures are equal -- but nobody does. I do not believe all people are equal in their capacities for economic production or some such, either.


I am afraid the first thing they teach you with ethnographic studies in Anthro is that you got to stop thinking that if you live in a human culture that somehow you got to judge the new society you are trying to understand by what you see as this one is better than that one. The truth is? You have not walked in their shoes for many years or for a long time. Stop judging and start UNDERSTANDING what these óthers are like. Once you do? You might realize that their 'strange' culture...aint that strange. Who cares about economic production Verv? You make it sound like people are only valuable if they produce. Like a machine. That is how the system treats people but that is not what human beings should think of each other in those terms.

But we are all equal before God!

We will inherit the Kingdom of God through loving God with all our heart and mind, and loving our neighbor as ourselves.

But, I will only allow this to be a part of my politics if you agree to live in a theomimetic diarchy with me in which the Church and the Emperor divide power and promise to emulate God.

Otherwise, I do not want to hear about how you think I am some kind of hypocrite because I don't want total wealth redistribution. Unless you want to stop aborting babies and fundamentally restructure everything.


I won't debate you on your concepts of God. For what? You believe in what? You are stuck on possessions and wealth distribution and assume I am about aborting babies. Lol. Aborting babies is not what I am about. Never was. But who knows what you have in that head of yours of what your énemies are supposed to be in your own mind?

It is late. And I don't like nationalism, discrimination and supposedly loving God with some ball of contradictions philosophies of yours....

Best to do what I proposed. Respect and distance.

You can't love your neighbor as yourself. And you think all people are equal before God? The ALIENS who INVADE and you think have to be stopped are PEOPLE like you.

My ideas are simple. What needs to get done politically so that people don't have to leave their countries looking for jobs, looking for a middle class life that they falsely think is easy to obtain.

How does one get that problem solved?

Any suggestion folks?
#15045215
Tainari88 wrote: many people in poor countries have these pack of lies about what the USA is about Verv. That they will get here and get a job and make money and change their lives. And instead it is fear, and worry and running and being unstable and nothing getting done for them in terms of true improvement.


:knife: I personally know dozens and dozens of Mexicans who came here, made a shitload of money and went back to Mexico and bought ranches, farms, grocery stores, restaurants, you name it. America pays off big time for the majority of immigrants and their families back home. They send billions back in remittances every year. The only ones that get a raw deal are the ones the Mexican cartels get their hooks in but most of them do better than they could ever imagine, that's why they keep coming.
#15045216
we were the same. All of us. Everyone. It did not matter if the person was American or not, or some nationality, or some other person with other rules they followed. Everyone is your equal. Eliminate the sense of separation. Nationalism is a type of segregation but it is used to unite people. Instead you get it as a reason to say, Äliens...creatures from another planet....fear. Lol.


You assume these things because it is useful for you to believe that there is no barrier between you and Anglo-Americans. You want access to their stuff.

If you saw a group of happy Anglos walking through a bad neighborhood in Mexico City, completely extroverted and well-intentioned, with a good grasp of Spanish, would y ou think that these Anglos were proper Mexicans, and have little fear to what would become of them if they chose to move into the neighborhood and stay..? Does Johnny Fredericks get unfettered access to Mexico & Mexican culture?

More importantly, why would Johnny want to be a Mexican? It will diminish his standard of living. What if the same is true in reverse? What if it's like... they don't want to be Americans. They just want a higher standard of living.

Let's also rememeber that your abuela's platitudes are not reality, Tainari.

I am afraid the first thing they teach you with ethnographic studies in Anthro is that you got to stop thinking that if you live in a human culture that somehow you got to judge the new society you are trying to understand by what you see as this one is better than that one. The truth is? You have not walked in their shoes for many years or for a long time. Stop judging and start UNDERSTANDING what these óthers are like. Once you do? You might realize that their 'strange' culture...aint that strange. Who cares about economic production Verv? You make it sound like people are only valuable if they produce. Like a machine. That is how the system treats people but that is not what human beings should think of each other in those terms.


I have spent more than a decade living in a country that is completely foreign to my culture. I speak the language and have a clear pathway to citizenship. I have two degrees from the local Universities.

I know these people well. I know my people well. I'd venture to say I perhaps understand some other cultures to some degree. But a barrier exists.

I do not think that many people understand Korean culture well who are not Korean or not long-term expats.

What you said is not entirely incorrect. But it kind of contradicts what is above.

I won't debate you on your concepts of God. For what? You believe in what? You are stuck on possessions and wealth distribution and assume I am about aborting babies. Lol. Aborting babies is not what I am about. Never was. But who knows what you have in that head of yours of what your énemies are supposed to be in your own mind?


Spoken like an abortionist.

If you were pro-life, you would have said it.

And this is not my concept of God. I have no special insight into God. I have only the insights of the Saints into God.

What dominant theme in a discussion? This thread is about 39 Chinese migrants who died in a lorry in Essex, UK. Noemon posted it and I commented about my personal experience with someone who wanted me to pick up her child who was smuggled in and almost could have been another statistic. Why? Why did I mention that experience? Because many people in poor countries have these pack of lies about what the USA is about Verv. That they will get here and get a job and make money and change their lives. And instead it is fear, and worry and running and being unstable and nothing getting done for them in terms of true improvement. People flee their homes not out of some fickle thing Verv. They do it out of a need to get away from dysfunction. I try to examine what the causes for it are. That is what all of us should do. But if you get stuck on legalities? You miss the forest for the trees.


What right do you have to say that Vietnam is a terrible place to live? I bet if you went there and spent some time with them, you'd realize that it ain't so bad.

Stop judging and start understandign what the Vietnamese are like.
#15045218
Vietnam is an amazing place to live, and is a truly lovely country. I know some Vietnamese people and my best friend married one. People often call places shit-holes, without ever going there. I hear the same crap about sissy-bitches who talk shit about Thailand, without knowing anything about it. :D

@Verv Being pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. Many people recognize that some people will choose that, but ideally you want to make it so it never has to be a viable choice. Make adoption, good birth control, and support for single mothers priorities.

Being pro-birth is as an abominable position as being strictly pro-abortion(I know not of one person on this forum who would be this).
#15045222
Tainari88 wrote:The nations they live in Verv are filled with messages about the lifestyle lived.


The Hollywood film industry has successfully propagated the American way of life the world over for the last 70 years. What people see of America in poor countries are beautiful film-stars with tons of money, a large villa, two cars and three refrigerators, a swimming pool ...

For somebody living in a shed in a poor slum without the hope for employment, these are powerful images. I live in one of the poorest places in Europe, yet we have to import thousands of Asians to do manual work in agriculture the locals don't want to do anymore. The other day, when I was taking the bus back from capital, the bus was full of Asian workers from Thailand, India, Nepal, etc. The guy sitting next to me showed me pictures of his family in Nepal on his smartphone. His younger brother was earning a few bucks by digging through the rubble of a gigantic rubbish disposal dump. Being exposed to toxic waste all day long during your youth isn't exactly healthy, yet it's the only thing he can do to earn 10 to 20 Euros a month. Even if his elder brother only earns the minimum wage of 600 Euros in the place I live, he can still save enough money to support his whole family.
#15045249
@Verv look is this thread about abortion? No, it is about 39 Chinese people found dead in a lorry. A tragedy of human trafficking.

You don't know who I am at all Verv. I could not have children at all. I was married since age 18 and wanted children my entire married life. After 22 years I had given up on the hope of children. And I adopted my older son at age 40 years old. He was nine years old when I adopted him from social services. His bio mother was a drug addict Verv. She had three kids all drug addicted and born one or two months premature due to heavy pregnancy drug use. I thought, life is not fair with this stuff. But I can raise a child and make sure he makes it in life. Be responsible. Life is not fair for many people Verv. Some people are born in grinding poverty and they don't have any way out of it but trying to smuggle themselves to nations who pay marginally better wages. The social worker told me Verv that my older son was problematic and his 'demographic'in the USA is basically low for the possibility of permanent adoption. People want mostly white babies Verv. They don't want African American males over the age of 8 years old who have been rejected by six different foster homes. People don't want those kids Verv. Too hard to cope with. Emotional Detachment Disorder. Anger, acting out. Being pissed off at the world and the possibility that they won't learn academically and fall behind and be unemployed or unemployable. Fall into crime. Addiction. The people shopping around for adoption are saying I don't want that responsibility. They don't want it Verv. My husband and I said to ourselves....why do we want to become parents? For our own egos? Or the child involved? The answer was for the child involved. Period. So we adopted our older boy. Who is 22 years old now. And in college, never been arrested. Speaks Spanish fluently. Gets straight A's in college and plays basketball and works for Lowe's hardware store in the midwest where he attends college. I don't have to pay his college tuition. He pays his own bills. Never been arrested. Pays taxes. A good citizen. Despite the system not liking African American males and cops almost shooting him five time in three different occassions thinking he was a burglar in the neighborhood and some nationalist white power freaks saying they did not want black teens in the neighborhood because they are all thieves. I have some real dislikes for people from your political column. Real dislike. Instead of coping with the people who are the result of a effed up system of racist crap they spout accusations to people who they think are ABORTIONISTS. You are a fool Verv.

What happened to my dreams of having a child? I said to myself...."Well Tainari, it looks like that is not in the cards for you. But you can concentrate on the boy and make sure he gets to the other side of adulthood with a future and doesn't wind up in jail for life like his bio father and or a drug addict like his bio mother. Both of them African Americans and truly not going to be in good shape in life." And I never was one to think....let me be a ''real' mom and pay some fancy clinic $45,000 so I can get a 'real' baby. I said to myself, "Got to accept what nature dictates and let her decide if I can have a child or not. It is not up to me. I don't control the world." I don't believe in this world being filled with kids without parents and having people spending thousands upon thousands of dollars on having a biological child of theirs. For me that is vanity Verv. It is. No one guarantees you life. For me having a baby is a privilege and an honor and a great responsibility. I would never abort a child of mine in a million damn years. Not this woman. Ever. But? I am not every woman in the world.

The only woman who told me I should abort was an Anglo doctor who looked at my last name and my old age and diabetic condition and told me? "Just think about how complicated this process is for you? Think about your health." I never listened to her. I told my husband if it comes down to me or the baby? Go for the baby. He did not want to listen to that. But it was the truth.

I wish I could have more children. Loved and love to this day being a mother. A great thing. But it is not something guaranteed Verv. Life is not guaranteed to any of us. None of us have tomorrow promised. Look at those people in that lorry in Essex? They had mothers and fathers and families and money invested in a dream. For a better life for themselves. And it all ended in tragedy. Over the message that in the land of UK or the land of the USA or the land of any well off (relatively well off) nation? Their circumstances will change. I learned long ago not to look for fairness in life. But to commit to struggle and to changing things for the better. Within your own possibilities.

That is the answer to illegal immigration too. Don't look for fairness about wealth distribution. Struggle in your own country to make it better for everyone and forget being envious or thinking the next one in line has it better than you...or that America has to protect herself from the ínvaders and the aliens taking our jobs and a bunch OF BULLSHIT.

Work on struggle and responsibility. Build service to others into your daily life. That is the answer to these horrific tragedies. So that the people living in poverty and hopelessness find the will to struggle for something better without having to give up their home cultures and suffering some terrible fate.
#15045256
@Sivad I personally know dozens and dozens of Mexicans who came here, made a shitload of money and went back to Mexico and bought ranches, farms, grocery stores, restaurants, you name it. America pays off big time for the majority of immigrants and their families back home. They send billions back in remittances every year. The only ones that get a raw deal are the ones the Mexican cartels get their hooks in but most of them do better than they could ever imagine, that's why they keep coming.


Shitload of money eh? How much money do you make with an 8th grade education, no English skills, no work permits and in a city with very high rents like California has Sivad? I know a lot of Mexicans and Latin Americans and worked in social work and in education and in Anthropology for many years. Most of the people who are able to save money and stick to a goal and are able to reach their dreams? They come with a specific goal in mind. They come from cities and small towns where they have worked extremely hard their entire lives Sivad. Mexico never had a real welfare state til recently. Most of Mexico did not have high schools in rural areas so most small town raised Mexicans never got high school educations. When the crops failed or the small businesses went bust like a family I know here from Tabasco? The Pemex oil refinery in a port town in Tabasco state? Pena Nieto sold the rights for refining Mexican petroleum to American foreign refineries mostly located in New Orleans and the Lousiana coast since they are the closest to the Gulf of Mexico. The Pemex workers were laid off. Most of the businesses in that town were dependent on the thousands of workers who worked that refinery. So that town became economically depressed. There is no welfare state in Mexico. No food coupons, free housing, paid electricity and water, or free health care. So if you can't get another job? You are going to suffer in every way. Many turned to stealing cows and sheep and horses and so on and selling it...the man had a towing business and so on....they stole a lot from him. He moved the family to this city. Many Mexicans move to Mexican cities if they come from rural small towns. When the economy tanks in the rural small towns.

They then have to compete with urban Mexicans. Who have high school educations and professional degrees. They can't get well paid jobs. They consider going up north. They work very hard their entire lives and are not afraid of working hard Sivad. They send money back to their families whom they love and whom they miss. But they want to be able to give them a way of living. So they stay up north til they can go back and maybe start a new life with another small investment. That is life in rural and urban Mexico. Most Mexicans don't like the cartels. They don't like crime and they don't trust drug trade people. But? If you have a corrupt sellout government and elites with money selling off the national resources to outside capitalists and pocketing money from taxes in their Swiss bank accounts and never buying water treatment plant pumps and upgrading electrical grids or investing in solar energy with gov't funds....or don't do investment in a lot of vocational programs and etc for mass amount of rural Mexicans? You got some problems. It will spill over to the states.

My Mexican friend who is very well off and came to the USA poor and without any money said to me, Ï don't understand these Gringos Tainari. They speak English as their native language. They have a work permit to work. They even have social safety net stuff...like food stamps and things...and I see a lot of them out begging in the streets. Homeless. Blond men with blue eyes, young strong backs, and all the advantages....and they keep moaning on...on TV about the Mexican aliens and illegal aliens....we take jobs those lazy ones never take. We don't complain about the low wages and the bad working conditions. We don't come here looking for a handout....all they do is complain and complain about Mexicans. I find them a bunch of stupid whiners. Go and work and if they don't want a dishwashing job or picking some lettuce in the hot sun or cleaning up some hotel room? Then shut the hell up about the damn ALIENS. Estupidos." The end of her speech.

She is not a Marxist. She is politically a libertarian. She speaks about four languages fluently and she graduated from college being illegal and undocumented...out of her own pocket. She doesn't believe in victimhood. You think she should not have become a USA citizen after paying into the system thousands and about 17 years waiting to become one?

Lol. The American Dream. You need to hear what others have to say about your own society Sivad. It is interesting. ;)
#15045315
There are only 2 possibilities I think:

a) The driver picked up them up alive and may have deprived them of water & food to the point of death by sheer stupidity, negligence?
b) The driver picked them up dead or to kill and....whatever, then the possibilities change.

Why would anyone want these people dead intentionally is the real question, is it not?
#15045318
All 40 Chinese nationals froze to death inside the refrigerated container. The young truck driver from Northern Ireland probably forgot to turn off the freezer of the freezer truck he was driving. I guess it had to be turned on when the truck crossed the border to Britain and went through the customs inspection. There were two other trucks which successfully smuggled 100 undocumented immigrants.

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#15045325
noemon wrote:There are only 2 possibilities I think:

a) The driver picked up them up alive and may have deprived them of water & food to the point of death by sheer stupidity, negligence?
b) The driver picked them up dead or to kill and....whatever, then the possibilities change.

Why would anyone want these people dead intentionally is the real question, is it not?


Negligence Noemon is my best guess. These traffickers are focusing on getting paid and on their own roles in transporting them. They don't have much of a conscience to begin with anyway. It would not be something out of the ordinary to just forget to turn off the refridgeration.

I think I read once that some other smuggled people in the USA Mexican border suffocated in a delivery truck due to heat and no water for two days in very high temperatures. They screamed and tried to claw their way out but the doors were tightly shut with chains and they had nothing to tear the metal apart enough. Not enough air and dehydration. Only two people survived in that story by digging a hole and breathing through it....

None of it is safe. I know people smuggled in. None of them say it is not a harrowing experience. All of it is terrible.
#15045381
That is a touching story, Tainari.

My grandfather was adopted, and one of my best friends was adopted. My fiancee has always wanted to adopt a poor girl from Balochistan, so we have decided that we will do this one day. It is important for us to open up our lives to the underprivileged.

I always say that DINKs (Dual Income, No Kids) can be quite selfish. They are basically making it so that children like your son do not have a home to go to. There are exceptions, of course, and I have taken it into consideration that people so psycholigcally deformed as to not want to be parents shouldn't be parents, but such is life.

But let me also say: facts do not care about your feelings (BenShapiroSwagPost.jpg but don't get me wrong, I do not believe in Conservatism, Inc).

I can name you more people than I can count on my hand who have been victimized by black and brown crime in the United States because they live in or next to diverse neighborhoods. It is a common occurrence, and the concern is legitimate. We should never forbid someone from living there, and we should not give shit to strangers, but we should call the police if something happens, and we should be vigilant of crime.

We shouldn't have to apologize for being vigilant, and it is those who are from crime infested communities that should be actively policing their own and apologizing to us.

I wish nothing but the best for all people but I refuse to pretend that I am in the wrong for noticing trends in reality and wanting policy to be reflective of reality.

The only woman who told me I should abort was an Anglo doctor who looked at my last name and my old age and diabetic condition and told me? "Just think about how complicated this process is for you? Think about your health." I never listened to her. I told my husband if it comes down to me or the baby? Go for the baby. He did not want to listen to that. But it was the truth.


I have to regrettably acknowledge that the Anglo women in America are a debauched crowd. We need to rehabilitate them.

You could be a powerful voice in doing this if you would join me in supporting traditionalist populist movements for the Reconquista of the Anglosphere.

Join me. This is how we change the world. God brought us together for this.
#15045453
As tragic a story as it is, I like to look for silver linings whenever possible.

If this incident keeps people from trying to enter a country illegally, that would be a good thing...
#15045466
noemon wrote:There are only 2 possibilities I think:

a) The driver picked up them up alive and may have deprived them of water & food to the point of death by sheer stupidity, negligence?
[...]


Freezers are by their very nature airtight.

These people suffocated.

So ... not much of a mystery, really.


BigSteve wrote:As tragic a story as it is, I like to look for silver linings whenever possible.

If this incident keeps people from trying to enter a country illegally, that would be a good thing...

It was already said in this thread that this wont stop them.

Obviously its a single incidence and an unintended accident.
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