[Vanasalus]

Quite funny comments.

Funny because hilariously out of touch.

Why so?

Perhaps out of shock and disbelief.

Whatever it is one thing is for sure in relation to Turkey:

Pandora's box is open, genie is out of the bottle.

No need to bash your heads to every wall around to reverse it.

[Atlantis]

Whatever it is one thing is for sure in relation to Turkey:

Pandora's box is open, genie is out of the bottle.

The genie of Sunni terror released by Erdogan.

You know who the genie is going to devour in the end, don't you?

Deep down inside, below the layers of jingoistic frenzy, you must know.

[Vanasalus]

The genie of Sunni terror released by Erdogan.

You know who the genie is going to devour in the end, don't you?

There is no such thing called "Sunni terror".

There is a "wahhabi/salafist terror" released on 9/11 after two decades of nurturing and festering started in Afghanistan under Western auspices and through Saudi intelligence and money.

Since 9/11, the same Wahhabi terror devouring the Islamic world under different names, sometimes Al-Qaeda, sometimes Al-Nusra, sometimes ISIS, but its Wahhabi nature and Saudi/Emirate logistic backing has not changed.

Neither has the close friendship between West and terror exporting Saudi/Emirati regimes.

Nevertheless, it's not the main topic of this conversation.

Let me clarify:

By saying "The genie in the bottle", I meant of Turkey's passive and strictly diplomatic stance in the past against every bit of ridiculous European demands.

Those demands often deserved a loud "F*CK YOU" as a response. Alas, the genie was still in the bottle.

But, now... It's no longer.

When France, culpable of supporting warlord Haftar and PKK, comes up while banging its chest about Libya or Eastern Syria, we say "F*CK YOU".

Or when Greece is bashing its head to walls for gaining exclusive economic zone around every piece of rock/island in the Mediterranean, we say "F*CK YOU".

And you know what.

It works miracles.

That is why I also drew a parable to Pandora's box.

There is no returning back to past while the current method works perfectly fine.

[Atlantis]

@Vanasalus, maybe you can't understand the idiom of the Pandora's box because it's of Greek origin ...

Ironically, you used it correctly as something that spells trouble even though you imagine it to be something favorable to Turkey.

Erdogan's imperialist overreach is going to cost Turkey dearly. Just get used to it, the Ottoman empire is gone for good, just like the Austria-Hungarian empire is gone. The Austrians may be nostalgic, but they don't keep on whining about their lost empire.

Except for a bunch of half-crazed Turks, nobody wants Ottoman rule, not the Greeks, not the Armenians, not the Arabs, not the Saudis, not the Russians, not the Europeans, not the Balkans, not the Americans, not the Iranians, not the Chinese ... absolutely nobody in the whole wide world is going to put up with Turkish expansionism. The Ottoman conquest spelled the end to Arab culture. You should go back to the steppes and do whatever you do with the goats. The terrorist monsters you have created will come to haunt you just like they came to haunt the Anglo Imperialists.

You are lucky the EU doesn't play the imperialist game, or the Kurds would have their own country and Constantinople would be ours. But that doesn't mean the EU is going to stand by idly as you fuck around in the region. The EU could sink the Turkish economy any time it wants to.

[Potemkin]

@Vanasalus, maybe you can't understand the idiom of the Pandora's box because it's of Greek origin ... :?:

Ironically, you used it correctly as something that spells trouble even though you imagine it to be something favorable to Turkey.

Erdogan's imperialist overreach is going to cost Turkey dearly. Just get used to it, the Ottoman empire is gone for good, just like the Austria-Hungarian empire is gone. The Austrians may be nostalgic, but they don't keep on whining about their lost empire.

Except for a bunch of half-crazed Turks, nobody wants Ottoman rule, not the Greeks, not the Armenians, not the Arabs, not the Saudis, not the Russians, not the Europeans, not the Balkans, not the Americans, not the Iranians, not the Chinese ... absolutely nobody in the whole wide world is going to put up with Turkish expansionism. The Ottoman conquest spelled the end to Arab culture. You should go back to the steppes and do whatever you do with the goats. The terrorist monsters you have created will come to haunt you just like they came to haunt the Anglo Imperialists.

You are lucky the EU doesn't play the imperialist game, or the Kurds would have their own country and Constantinople would be ours. But that doesn't mean the EU is going to stand by idly as you fuck around in the region. The EU could sink the Turkish economy any time it wants to.

Interesting how jingoistic and threatening the Germans become when the word 'Deutschland' is replaced with 'the EU'. It's almost as though they regard the EU as their own national Reich....

[Atlantis]

Interesting how jingoistic and threatening the Germans become when the word 'Deutschland' is replaced with 'the EU'. It's almost as though they regard the EU as their own national Reich....

It's not Germany that's asking for tough action against Turkey, quite on the contrary, it is first of all Greece, Italy and France that are pressing the EU to impose tough sanctions on Turkey.

But you wouldn't understand that since the Brits can only view foreign relations in terms of imperialist submission of others.

[Rugoz]

Those demands often deserved a loud "F*CK YOU" as a response. Alas, the genie was still in the bottle.

But, now... It's no longer.

When France, culpable of supporting warlord Haftar and PKK, comes up while banging its chest about Libya or Eastern Syria, we say "F*CK YOU".

Or when Greece is bashing its head to walls for gaining exclusive economic zone around every piece of rock/island in the Mediterranean, we say "F*CK YOU".

And you know what.

It works miracles.

Oh wow, how mature!

I wonder, what miracles did it work exactly? Because all I can see is a demagogue trying to secure his internal position by conjuring up evil external enemies, as happened a thousand times in history.

[Vanasalus]

@Vanasalus, maybe you can't understand the idiom of the Pandora's box because it's of Greek origin ... :?:

So? Am I not allowed to use it?

I guess I am entitled to use Greek and Roman idioms much more than those who descend from face painting and howling barbarians of the forests of Germania.

Ironically, you used it correctly as something that spells trouble even though you imagine it to be something favorable to Turkey.

No irony really. Troublesome for you, good for us.

Except for a bunch of half-crazed Turks, nobody wants Ottoman rule, not the Greeks, not the Armenians, not the Arabs, not the Saudis, not the Russians, not the Europeans, not the Balkans, not the Americans, not the Iranians, not the Chinese ... absolutely nobody in the whole wide world is going to put up with Turkish expansionism. The Ottoman conquest spelled the end to Arab culture. You should go back to the steppes and do whatever you do with the goats. The terrorist monsters you have created will come to haunt you just like they came to haunt the Anglo Imperialists.

What is dead may never die.

I give no shit to either Erdogan's theatrics or your perceptions and delusions.

For the good of everyone in our neighborhood, Turkey needs to be more proactive.

And Turkey does that in recent a few years.

That is it!

You are lucky the EU doesn't play the imperialist game, or the Kurds would have their own country and Constantinople would be ours. But that doesn't mean the EU is going to stand by idly as you fuck around in the region. The EU could sink the Turkish economy any time it wants to.

You have a big mouth, delusional grandeur and a small cock.

I am not impressed, let alone scared.

I must admit you are quite entertaining, though.

Thus, by all means, please do continue.

Interesting how jingoistic and threatening the Germans become when the word 'Deutschland' is replaced with 'the EU'. It's almost as though they regard the EU as their own national Reich....

Well spotted.

Neither holy, nor Roman, nor an Empire... Just a bunch of Germans.

[Vanasalus]

I wonder, what miracles did it work exactly?

Hmmmm, let's see.

-It secured a safe zone in Idlib region, so 3 million more refugees have not come to Europe.

-It created a safe zone for Arab inhabitants in the east bank of Euphrates, thus practically stopped the ethnic cleansing of Arabs in mentioned region for the purpose of creating a puppet Kurdish statelet on the ruins of Syria.

-It saved 3 million people living in and around Tripoli, Libya under siege and indiscriminate bombardment of LNA. As FT reports, quoting a high ranking EU diplomat: "Let’s be honest, Turkey stopped the fall of Tripoli. Without their intervention, it would have been a humanitarian disaster."

Link: https://www.ft.com/content/3b85dd0e-1f2 ... 7b7f75a03e

I say not bad.

Not bad at all.

[wat0n]

Hmmmm, let's see.

-It secured a safe zone in Idlib region, so 3 million more refugees have not come to Europe.

-It created a safe zone for Arab inhabitants in the east bank of Euphrates, thus practically stopped the ethnic cleansing of Arabs in mentioned region for the purpose of creating a puppet Kurdish statelet on the ruins of Syria.

-It saved 3 million people living in and around Tripoli, Libya under siege and indiscriminate bombardment of LNA. As FT reports, quoting a high ranking EU diplomat: "Let’s be honest, Turkey stopped the fall of Tripoli. Without their intervention, it would have been a humanitarian disaster."

Link: https://www.ft.com/content/3b85dd0e-1f2 ... 7b7f75a03e

I say not bad.

Not bad at all.

How can Turkey secure these gains over the long run without Western support?

[annatar1914]

How can Turkey secure these gains over the long run without Western support?

Who says Turkey doesn't really have Western support, sub rosa? Watch what they all do, not what they say.

[Vanasalus]

How can Turkey secure these gains over the long run without Western support?

Exactly like how it made those gains without any Western support.

Duh!

[wat0n]

Who says Turkey doesn't really have Western support, sub rosa? Watch what they all do, not what they say.

It does, but for how long?

Exactly like how it made those gains without any Western support.

Duh!

Really? The NATO guarantee seems quite relevant to me.

[annatar1914]

@wat0n , you asked me concerning Western backing for Turkey's adventures;

It does, but for how long?

That's a very good question. It's possible in my opinion that given Saudi Arabia's decline and the fecklessness of it and the other Oil Sheikdoms, the West would prefer to see Turkey reach it's goal of a Neo-Ottoman Empire through which they can better manage the Middle East and it's resources.

[Vanasalus]

Really? The NATO guarantee seems quite relevant to me.

All animals in NATO are equal, but some animals of NATO are more equal than others.

As Turkey is being 1 of the only 2 NATO countries having formidable armed forces that can wage wars, the worry about the continuity of the NATO guarantee should be more relevant to others compared to us.

That's a very good question. It's possible in my opinion that given Saudi Arabia's decline and the fecklessness of it and the other Oil Sheikdoms, the West would prefer to see Turkey reach it's goal of a Neo-Ottoman Empire through which they can better manage the Middle East and it's resources.

The age of our empire is over. It's been over for a century, may be even longer. It'll never come back. It's neither possible nor desirable.

Stop manufacturing fairy tales first and then believing your own tales. You look ridiculous by doing so.

As for your perception of "West"....

We have a saying in Turkish: "A sheikh never flies. But his disciples make him fly in their tales."

Of course, I don't deny the existence of the "Western Power" in a certain degree.

But inserting it as the central and absolute parameter into all arguments makes you look like unwashed idiots.

[Rugoz]

-It secured a safe zone in Idlib region, so 3 million more refugees have not come to Europe.

-It created a safe zone for Arab inhabitants in the east bank of Euphrates, thus practically stopped the ethnic cleansing of Arabs in mentioned region for the purpose of creating a puppet Kurdish statelet on the ruins of Syria.

-It saved 3 million people living in and around Tripoli, Libya under siege and indiscriminate bombardment of LNA. As FT reports, quoting a high ranking EU diplomat: "Let’s be honest, Turkey stopped the fall of Tripoli. Without their intervention, it would have been a humanitarian disaster."

Link: https://www.ft.com/content/3b85dd0e-1f2 ... 7b7f75a03e

I say not bad.

Not bad at all.

Sounds like utter nonsense. It's basically the same humanitarian intervention bullshit we hear from the usual powers turned up to eleven.

[Atlantis]

By saying "The genie in the bottle", I meant of Turkey's passive and strictly diplomatic stance in the past against every bit of ridiculous European demands.

Those demands often deserved a loud "F*CK YOU" as a response. Alas, the genie was still in the bottle.

But, now... It's no longer.

When France, culpable of supporting warlord Haftar and PKK, comes up while banging its chest about Libya or Eastern Syria, we say "F*CK YOU".

Or when Greece is bashing its head to walls for gaining exclusive economic zone around every piece of rock/island in the Mediterranean, we say "F*CK YOU".

And you know what.

It works miracles.

That is why I also drew a parable to Pandora's box.

There is no returning back to past while the current method works perfectly fine.

You sound like Hitler in his Sept. 1st, 1939, speech, when he portrayed Germany as the victim of an international conspiracy which he would put an end to by shooting back, bomb by bomb. We know how that ended.

Considering that Germany at the time was one of the most advanced industrial countries and Turkey was never more than a 3rd world shit hole, the end will come sooner rather than later.

Your victimhood narrative always ends in tears.

You are most welcome to use the Pandora's box analogy. I'm just telling you that you make a fool of yourself by using it the wrong way. The trouble is always on the one opening the box, according to you, Turkey.

[Potemkin]

I hope you've learned something from that stern moralistic lecture, @Vanasalus. What would we do without the Germans to set us right, eh?

[Local Localist]

I heard that Germans also drank water back in the thirties. Scary stuff. Luckily for me, I live on Coca Cola and whiskey, so I won't turn into a Nazi.

[Vanasalus]

Sounds like utter nonsense. It's basically the same humanitarian intervention bullshit we hear from the usual powers turned up to eleven.

The truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.... Help you God!

Considering that Germany at the time was one of the most advanced industrial countries and Turkey was never more than a 3rd world shit hole, the end will come sooner rather than later.

Debatable.

One thing is undebateable though: We have the inheritance of a millennium-long state tradition of an empire. Yet Germans managed to form a national identity and union barely in 1871.

You make nice cars and durable dishwashers. I give you that. But, you don't have what it takes to make you a power to be reckoned.

Your victimhood narrative always ends in tears.

I think you are hallucinating. Do a look like someone employing "victimhood narrative"?

Stop snorting whatever you are snorting.

You are most welcome to use the Pandora's box analogy. I'm just telling you that you make a fool of yourself by using it the wrong way. The trouble is always on the one opening the box, according to you, Turkey.

Since you look like a member of a goose pack quacking like crazy in panic, I think you seem to be at the receiving end of the opened Pandorra's box.

I hope you've learned something from that stern moralistic lecture, @Vanasalus. What would we do without the Germans to set us right, eh?

Tell me about that. If we hadn't known what they are about, their posture of "German idealism" would have been as attractive as a newborn kitty to be petted.