[Donna]

Yeah lets give nukes to shitholes with careless dictators
what could go wrong?

I thought magalets admired guys like Duterte, Bolsonaro, et al. (i.e. leaders of developing nations)...?

[Zionist Nationalist]

I thought magalets admired guys like Duterte, Bolsonaro, et al. (i.e. leaders of developing nations)...?

Those guys are on our side

the others like Maduro, or any Muslims country are not

need to keep the nukes at safe hands
it was a huge mistake to allow Fuckistan to have Nukes

[Zionist Nationalist]

To be fair, many see Trump as one.

Trump may be careless but he is the leader of US that makes alot of difference

[Patrickov]

Trump may be careless but he is the leader of US that makes alot of difference

I somewhat agree. The system, if not some voters, of the United States is what makes them at least predictable and reasonable.

[Zionist Nationalist]

hurr hurr nuance hard

I personally dont care about having dictators as allies as long as they know their place
Some countries cant be democratic

[Patrickov]

Some countries cant be democratic

If there are countries who cannot achieve a fair and democratic society on their own in the foreseeable future, they should (have) be(en) (kept) colonised, like those British overseas territories.

[Zionist Nationalist]

If there are countries who cannot achieve a fair and democratic society on their own in the foreseeable future, they should (have) be(en) (kept) colonised, like those British overseas territories.

I agree. Colonialism was necessary and I would say unavoidable as part of humanity development

[Prosthetic Conscience]

Please cut out the one-line "you too" crap, people. If you have a particular obsession with another user that you have to reply to every thing they post even when you have nothing to say, then do it in your mind. Or write it on a piece of paper, look at it a day later, and you'll see how silly it looks.

[ckaihatsu]

If there are countries who cannot achieve a fair and democratic society on their own in the foreseeable future, they should (have) be(en) (kept) colonised, like those British overseas territories.

It boils down to the *economics*, Patrickov -- small formerly-colonized territories are not going to see *that* much difference in daily life, even after their national-liberation movements of the '50s-'70s. Economically they're still tied to their colonizers, for the most part.

[Tainari88]

Yeah lets give nukes to shitholes with careless dictators
what could go wrong?

India has nukes too. Why?

What is behind the nuclear weapons programs? It is part of the arms race and it is also fear of being invaded and taken over by other powers. But if every nation in the world acquires them to ward off an invasion? Will it then fall into the mentality of what Einstein talked about? Where if you put a lot of energy into creating, preparing and thinking about nuclear war? You will eventually use it.

I don't want my child or his children to glow in the dark or be incinerated.

There has to be another way to avoid imperialistic invasions and greed pig people from taking over the world.

There has to be a better way than annihilation of the human race as the only alternative to protecting oneself from aggressors.

@Zionist Nationalist colonization by racist Empires SUCK. You be colonized and suffer all that shit and come and talk crap or be killed as being hated for advocating racist, hate filled shit politics.

[Zionist Nationalist]

India has nukes too. Why?

What is behind the nuclear weapons programs? It is part of the arms race and it is also fear of being invaded and taken over by other powers. But if every nation in the world acquires them to ward off an invasion? Will it then fall into the mentality of what Einstein talked about? Where if you put a lot of energy into creating, preparing and thinking about nuclear war? You will eventually use it.

I don't want my child or his children to glow in the dark or be incinerated.

There has to be another way to avoid imperialistic invasions and greed pig people from taking over the world.

There has to be a better way than annihilation of the human race as the only alternative to protecting oneself from aggressors.

@Zionist Nationalist colonization by racist Empires SUCK. You be colonized and suffer all that shit and come and talk crap or be killed as being hated for advocating racist, hate filled shit politics.

India is fine its western friendly democratic country
Pakistan on the other hand is not democratic and not western friendly

Nukes have kept the world from going to WW3 without Nukes there could have been a major WW2 style war but (with more advanced weapons this time) in Europe that could slide to other parts of the world. but giving nukes to too many countries and unstable ones can lead to disaster
Nuclear energy is also a good thing when is being properly managed

Colonialism was unavoidable you can hate it all you want but its integral part of human development just like wars

[Pants-of-dog]

Yeah lets give nukes to shitholes with careless dictators
what could go wrong?

We would have to address the underlying factors that lead to corruption in the developing world?

[Tainari88]

India is fine its western friendly democratic country
Pakistan on the other hand is not democratic and not western friendly

Nukes have kept the world from going to WW3 without Nukes there could have been a major WW2 style war but (with more advanced weapons this time) in Europe that could slide to other parts of the world. but giving nukes to too many countries and unstable ones can lead to disaster
Nuclear energy is also a good thing when is being properly managed

Colonialism was unavoidable you can hate it all you want but its integral part of human development just like wars

No, Zionist, there is a good way of developing human societies and a bad way. Good way, science and vaccines to prevent small pox and measles. Bad way Nazi chemicals in gas chambers to kill the Jews in the holocaust. But hey Hitler did the Volkswagen and it is popular allover the world.

Colonialism is like the Nazi chemicals. Learn to not do what causes mass suffering. You keep thinking it is a good thing. I don't. You are advocating the same type of predatory dominant crap that the Jews suffered. You would think they being victims of the HOLOCAUST they would learn how bad it is to be right wing fascists and to not invade other nations and be oppressive. But instead the Right wing Jews are bad in that way. Instead of being decent human beings they advocate the same mentality that exterminated a huge chunk of their own ethnic and religious group.

You want colonization for poor people and Latin American people Zionist? I hate that with everything I got. Just because it is unjust. Period.

[Zionist Nationalist]

No, Zionist, there is a good way of developing human societies and a bad way. Good way, science and vaccines to prevent small pox and measles. Bad way Nazi chemicals in gas chambers to kill the Jews in the holocaust. But hey Hitler did the Volkswagen and it is popular allover the world.

Colonialism is like the Nazi chemicals. Learn to not do what causes mass suffering. You keep thinking it is a good thing. I don't. You are advocating the same type of predatory dominant crap that the Jews suffered. You would think they being victims of the HOLOCAUST they would learn how bad it is to be right wing fascists and to not invade other nations and be oppressive. But instead the Right wing Jews are bad in that way. Instead of being decent human beings they advocate the same mentality that exterminated a huge chunk of their own ethnic and religious group.

You want colonization for poor people and Latin American people Zionist? I hate that with everything I got. Just because it is unjust. Period.

Im talking about the past
today we can discuss whats wrong or right
in the old days life was different everything was different from daily activities to morals
saying that colonialism was wrong in the 19th century is kida ridiculous
same as saying public executions were immoral in the medieval ages
that was the spirit of those times nothing could be done about it

Today Colonialism is not necessary anymore and I dont support it

[ckaihatsu]

India is fine its western friendly democratic country
Pakistan on the other hand is not democratic and not western friendly

Nukes have kept the world from going to WW3 without Nukes there could have been a major WW2 style war but (with more advanced weapons this time) in Europe that could slide to other parts of the world. but giving nukes to too many countries and unstable ones can lead to disaster
Nuclear energy is also a good thing when is being properly managed

Colonialism was unavoidable you can hate it all you want but its integral part of human development just like wars

So you're *admitting* that it's all about the ongoing legacy of Western Civilization, even if that requires colonialism, imperialism, genocide, world wars, etc. -- there's just no other way, because *you say* there's no other way.

Here's what *history* shows us:

In the English, American and French revolutions, and again in 1848, large sections of the propertied classes had turned against the upheavals as they took a radical twist. But they had played some initiating role in the movements. In Russia in 1917 their fear of the industrial workers stopped them doing even this. As the Menshevik historian of the revolution, Sukhanov, wrote, ‘Our bourgeoisie, unlike the others, betrayed the people not the day after the overturn but even before the overturn took place’. 64

Leaders of the Duma like Rodzianko and Miliukov were negotiating to reform the monarchy right up until the very moment of the tsar’s abdication. Yet they nominated the government that replaced him—a government led by a Prince L’vov and dominated by major landowners and industrialists. It contained just one figure with any revolutionary credentials at all, a lawyer who had made his name defending political prisoners, Kerensky.

The workers’ delegates of the soviet met initially because of the need to establish some coordination between the activities of different sections of workers. Once rebel regiments sent their delegates to join the workers’ assembly, it became the focus of the whole revolutionary movement. Its elected executive had to take in hand much of the actual running of the city: providing food supplies to the mutinying soldiers; overseeing the arrest of the old police and officials; arranging for each factory to send one in ten of its workers to a militia to maintain revolutionary order; establishing a newspaper which would let people know what was happening at a time when the whole press was strike-bound. Groups of workers and soldiers would turn to the soviet for instructions—and all the time soviets which had sprung up elsewhere in the country were affiliating to the Petrograd soviet. In effect it became the government of the revolution. But it was a government which refused to take formal power and waited for the Duma leaders to do so.

The workers’ delegates in the soviet were to a greater or lesser extent influenced by the underground socialist parties. Wartime repression had all but destroyed their organisational structures, but the impact of their ideas and the standing of their imprisoned, exiled or underground leaders remained. However, these parties did not use their influence in the first days of the revolution to argue against the soviet accepting a government chosen by the Duma leaders. The Marxist parties, the Bolsheviks and Mensheviks, disagreed repeatedly over tactics. In 1905 the Mensheviks had followed a policy of waiting for the bourgeoisie to take the initiative, whereas the Bolsheviks had insisted workers had to push the bourgeois revolution forward. During the war many Mensheviks had argued for the defence of Russia against Germany and Austria, while Bolsheviks and ‘internationalist’ Mensheviks had opposed any support for the war. But they agreed on the character of the coming revolution—it was to be a bourgeois revolution.

This led the first leading Bolshevik figures to arrive in Petrograd, Stalin and Molotov, to accept the bourgeois provisional government chosen by the Duma. From this it also followed that they could no longer call for an immediate end to the war, since it was no longer a war waged on behalf of tsarism but a war of ‘revolutionary defence’.

The only well-known revolutionary to have characterised the revolution differently, to insist it could be a proletarian revolution, had been Leon Trotsky. But he was in exile in America in February and had no party of his own, belonging instead to a loose socialist grouping standing between the Mensheviks and Bolsheviks.

The workers’ delegates to the soviet were not happy with the composition of the new government. They distrusted Prince L’vov and the collection of landowners and industrialists around him. But they did not have the confidence to tell experienced political leaders with an apparent knowledge of Marxism that they were wrong.

The soldiers’ delegates were even more easily won to support the government than the workers’ delegates. Most had never taken political action before. They had been brought up to defer to their ‘betters’, and even though bitter experience had made them turn against the tsar and the senior officers, they still deferred to those above who seemed on the same side as themselves—to the many regimental junior officers and the provisional government, which had learned to use the language of the revolution only a couple of days after themselves.

Harman, _People's History of the World_, pp. 414-416

The parties and the revolution

The October Revolution was not simply a result of the mechanical development of inhuman forces, however. It depended on the mass of people—the workers, peasants and soldiers—acting in a certain way in response to these forces. It was here that Lenin and the Bolsheviks played a decisive role. Without them there would still have been strikes, protests, the seizure of factories by workers, peasant attacks on the property of landlords, mutinies, and revolts among non-Russian nationalities. But these would not automatically have fused into a single movement attempting a conscious transformation of society.

Instead, they might easily have turned in on one another, allowing unemployed workers, desperate soldiers and confused peasants to fall prey to waves of anti-Semitic and Russian nationalist agitation promoted by remnants of the old order. Under such circumstances, success would certainly have been possible for someone like General Kornilov, who attempted to march on Petrograd in August, to impose a military dictatorship. Capitalist democracy had no chance of survival in the Russia of 1917, but that did not rule out a starving, despairing population allowing a right wing dictatorship to build on their despair. As Trotsky once observed, the fascism born in Italy in 1922 could easily have been born under another name in Russia in late 1917 or 1918.

Harman, _People's History of the World_, p. 418

[ckaihatsu]

We would have to address the underlying factors that lead to corruption in the developing world?

'Corruption', as you may already know, is just how the colonizing structure *works* -- even the purest of intentions will inevitably run up against the world's capitalist imperialist power structure. I'm immediately reminded of Lumumba, a tragic story:

UN response

Secretary-General of the United Nations Dag Hammarskjöld made an appeal to Kasa-Vubu asking that Lumumba be treated according to due process. The Soviet Union denounced Hammarskjöld and the First World as responsible for Lumumba's arrest and demanded his release.

The United Nations Security Council was called into session on 7 December 1960 to consider Soviet demands that the UN seek Lumumba's immediate release, the immediate restoration of Lumumba as head of the Congo government, the disarming of the forces of Mobutu, and the immediate evacuation of Belgians from the Congo. The Soviets also requested the immediate resignation of Hammarskjöld, the arrests of Mobutu and Tshombe, and the withdrawal of UN peacekeeping forces.[130] Hammarskjöld, answering Soviet criticism of his Congo operations, said that if the UN forces were withdrawn from the Congo, "I fear everything will crumble."

The threat to the UN cause was intensified by the announcement of the withdrawal of their contingents by Yugoslavia, the United Arab Republic, Ceylon, Indonesia, Morocco, and Guinea. The pro-Lumumba resolution was defeated on 14 December 1960 by a vote of 8–2. On the same day, a Western resolution that would have given Hammarskjöld increased powers to deal with the Congo situation was vetoed by the Soviet Union.

Final days and execution

Lumumba was sent first on 3 December 1960 to Thysville military barracks Camp Hardy, 150 km (about 100 miles) from Léopoldville. He was accompanied by Maurice Mpolo and Joseph Okito, two political associates who had planned to assist him in setting up a new government. They were fed poorly by the prison guards, as per Mobutu's orders. In Lumumba's last documented letter, he wrote to Rajeshwar Dayal: "in a word, we are living amid absolutely impossible conditions; moreover, they are against the law".[69]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrice_L ... N_response

[Pants-of-dog]

'Corruption', as you may already know, is just how the colonizing structure *works* -- even the purest of intentions will inevitably run up against the world's capitalist imperialist power structure. I'm immediately reminded of Lumumba, a tragic story:

Exactly.

And the international system of capitalism that creates and maintains (and is partially maintained by) multinational corporations also benefits from this corruption, and therefore has a vested financial interest in maintaining corruption.

You cannot simultaneously have a petty dictatorship that is willing to take bribes in exchange for robbing the country, and a transparent government with strong integrity that can be trusted with WMD.

And this is why capitalism makes it difficult to spread environmentally friendly nuclear tech.

[Tainari88]

Exactly.

And the international system of capitalism that creates and maintains (and is partially maintained by) multinational corporations also benefits from this corruption, and therefore has a vested financial interest in maintaining corruption.

You cannot simultaneously have a petty dictatorship that is willing to take bribes in exchange for robbing the country, and a transparent government with strong integrity that can be trusted with WMD.

And this is why capitalism makes it difficult to spread environmentally friendly nuclear tech.

Amidst everything going on Pants I remain optimistic about the future of a cooperative society and a government that can't be bribed off and corrupted. People grow tired of it. I see changes all the time. It is a long haul battle Pants.

That is the case for all of of human history.

When you think about the Planet of the Humans? The reality is we are all humans and we all got those beautiful creative gifts.

If we fail? Take comfort in trying again after defeat with some knowledge. If it all goes to pot? Think of it this way? We are just a tiny galaxy in a vast universe. If we are alone? As the quote from the movie Contact says, "It seems like an awful waste of space."

We are one among countless possibilities to get it right. The trick is to keep trying.

Besos Pants. Es un dia lindo. Me voy a caminar.

[ckaihatsu]

Exactly.

And the international system of capitalism that creates and maintains (and is partially maintained by) multinational corporations also benefits from this corruption, and therefore has a vested financial interest in maintaining corruption.

You cannot simultaneously have a petty dictatorship that is willing to take bribes in exchange for robbing the country, and a transparent government with strong integrity that can be trusted with WMD.

And this is why capitalism makes it difficult to spread environmentally friendly nuclear tech.

Yes, it's left to the likes of ZN over there to decide who's 'Western' enough to join the nuclear club.

How did *Pakistan* slip through? (snicker)

[skinster]

How was your walk, Tainari?

Today Colonialism is not necessary anymore and I dont support it

Uhhh, Palestine continues to be colonized ("Israel" is a settler-colony)