[annatar1914]

If Belorussians do not resort to mass protest or riots then nothing can be said for them. They would deserve whatever shit coming, including the disestablishment of their country when Putin decides to cancel its independence (although both of us would agree Putin is actually the worse monster here).

''Monster''? I don't think you know what a monster is. And as far as Byelorussia goes, I think most Byelorussians would prefer to be reunited with other Russians by a significant majority.

[JohnRawls]

If Belorussians do not resort to mass protest or riots then nothing can be said for them. They would deserve whatever shit coming, including the disestablishment of their country when Putin decides to cancel its independence (although both of us would agree Putin is actually the worse monster here).

There are mass protests right now. Not really riots.

[Patrickov]

''Monster''? I don't think you know what a monster is. And as far as Byelorussia goes, I think most Byelorussians would prefer to be reunited with other Russians by a significant majority.

Fair enough. I think I made a mistake. I should have stopped at the sentence "They would deserve whatever shit coming".

[JohnRawls]

''Monster''? I don't think you know what a monster is. And as far as Byelorussia goes, I think most Byelorussians would prefer to be reunited with other Russians by a significant majority.

No, this is a lie. Belorussians have their own identity and the only reason why they might consider reunification with Russia is to get rid of Lukašenko. Otherwise their idea is that union with Russia didn't pan out the first time so why would it work now especially under Putin. Lukašenko played with Putin regarding this but ultimately people don't want this unless it is the only way to get rid of the dictator. Then again Putin is just slightly better.

They are kinda in a similar boat as HK. Just they are being oppressed by Lukasheko. So unless Russia becomes a beacon of prosperity and liberty, there is no real reason to be with Russia.

[annatar1914]

No, this is a lie.

Every Byelorussian i've ever met and every poll i've ever read says differently, so unless you have some compelling information otherwise...

Belorussians have their own identity

Yes, with the other Russian peoples

and the only reason why they might consider reunification with Russia is to get rid of Lukašenko.

Not only are you wrong with that, Velikorussians of the Russian Federation would actually slightly prefer Lukashenko to Putin were the countries reunited. Try harder

Otherwise their idea is that union with Russia didn't pan out the first time so why would it work now especially under Putin.

Funny, that's more of Lukashenko's narrative.

Lukašenko played with Putin regarding this but ultimately people don't want this unless it is the only way to get rid of the dictator. Then again Putin is just slightly better.

''the people''... Which to you means the handful of Western-style Liberals and would-be looters of a Belarussian ''color revolution'' as per the CIA/NGO playbook

They are kinda in a similar boat as HK.

HK is part of China. The remnants of Western colonialism need to be swept away. It's that simple.

Just they are being oppressed by Lukasheko.

You mean in reality, by saying ''oppressed by Lukashenko'', with not being raped by a Byelorussian version of Yeltsin and his handlers after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

So unless Russia becomes a beacon of prosperity and liberty, there is no real reason to be with Russia.

Russia is doing better than a lot of places, and only Anti-Russian geopolitics from the West hinders it's enormous potential in the future. It's why they broke apart the USSR to begin with.

[Patrickov]

HK is part of China. The remnants of Western colonialism need to be swept away. It's that simple.

China actually has no intention in that. In some sense they are imposing their kind of colonialism which, I dare to say, is worse than what the British did in their final years.

You mean in reality, by saying ''oppressed by Lukashenko'', with not being raped by a Belorussian version of Yeltsin and his handlers after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

Russia is doing better than a lot of places, and only Anti-Russian geopolitics from the West hinders it's enormous potential in the future. It's why they broke apart the USSR to begin with.

Yeltsin personally appointed Putin to succeed him, so maybe the three of them are actually the same.

[JohnRawls]

Every Byelorussian i've ever met and every poll i've ever read says differently, so unless you have some compelling information otherwise...




Yes, with the other Russian peoples




Not only are you wrong with that, Velikorussians of the Russian Federation would actually slightly prefer Lukashenko to Putin were the countries reunited. Try harder




Funny, that's more of Lukashenko's narrative.




''the people''... Which to you means the handful of Western-style Liberals and would-be looters of a Belarussian ''color revolution'' as per the CIA/NGO playbook



HK is part of China. The remnants of Western colonialism need to be swept away. It's that simple.




You mean in reality, by saying ''oppressed by Lukashenko'', with not being raped by a Byelorussian version of Yeltsin and his handlers after the collapse of the Soviet Union.




Russia is doing better than a lot of places, and only Anti-Russian geopolitics from the West hinders it's enormous potential in the future. It's why they broke apart the USSR to begin with.

Do you know Russian? I can give you interviews from most leaders in Belorus. Or their representatives. They all say the same thing. I am not sure what Lukašenko camp stands for but surely not for unification because he would loose power then. So my only proof is me talking to belorussians and watching what Belorus leaders say. Most of them are arrested by KGB right now though.

Edit: Your rhetoric is around decade or two old. That was the case back in 2000s but lack of economic or social progress changed that. Without liberalism the growth was too slow.

[Oxymoron]

About time Belarus goes back to Russia.

[annatar1914]

China actually has no intention in that. In some sense they are imposing their kind of colonialism which, I dare to say, is worse than what the British did in their final years.

Your philo-Western outlook is duly noted.

Yeltsin personally appointed Putin to succeed him, so maybe the three of them are actually the same.

Yeltsin had no choice but to pick someone from the ''Praetorian Guard'' of the State to succeed him, because at that time the foundations of Russia herself were collapsing and Yeltsin didn't want that kind of legacy on his conscience. Every developed country has a ''Praetorian Guard'' within the machinery of Government, by the way, those tasked by solemn oath with defending the nation against enemies foreign and domestic.

[annatar1914]

Do you know Russian?

''Nemnogo''

I can give you interviews from most leaders in Belorus. Or their representatives. They all say the same thing. I am not sure what Lukašenko camp stands for but surely not for unification because he would loose power then. So my only proof is me talking to belorussians and watching what Belorus leaders say. Most of them are arrested by KGB right now though.

You mean, opposition leaders who necessarily are out to replace Lukasenko so begin with. No bias there, right?

Edit: Your rhetoric is around decade or two old. That was the case back in 2000s but lack of economic or social progress changed that. Without liberalism the growth was too slow.

What ''lack of economic or social progress''? I mean, first of all define ''Social Progress''; I'm certain you and I mean different things when we talk about that. Liberalism is a cancer that needs to be eradicated from every society it gets a foothold within, destroys the very basis for any peaceful and prosperous civilization at it's foundation.

[JohnRawls]

''Nemnogo''



You mean, opposition leaders who necessarily are out to replace Lukasenko so begin with. No bias there, right?


What ''lack of economic or social progress''? I mean, first of all define ''Social Progress''; I'm certain you and I mean different things when we talk about that. Liberalism is a cancer that needs to be eradicated from every society it gets a foothold within, destroys the very basis for any peaceful and prosperous civilization at it's foundation.

Well too bad that you don't know Russian and know it just a bit.

As for lack of social progress: no growth in salaries for almost 10 years, 100 USD salary outside of Misnk, 300 USD in Minsk, political prosecutions, cultural oppression, etc

Also lol, Lukashenko stated today that "Yes, i gave the order to arrest the opposition candidates! Is there something wrong with that?"

0.56 until 1.27 or so. Also promising that the elections will be interesting and election aftermath will also be even more interesting, this he promised to everyone.

[annatar1914]

Well too bad that you don't know Russian and know it just a bit.

I know enough to get around town and stores and not embarrass my wife too much in public, it's the Cyrillic that takes more getting used to, what with my mild dyslexia to begin with.

As for lack of social progress: no growth in salaries for almost 10 years, 100 USD salary outside of Misnk, 300 USD in Minsk, political prosecutions, cultural oppression, etc

That's because Belarus was never meant to be independent as a political or economic unit.

Also lol, Lukashenko stated today that "Yes, i gave the order to arrest the opposition candidates! Is there something wrong with that?"

Lol, indeed...

0.56 until 1.27 or so. Also promising that the elections will be interesting and election aftermath will also be even more interesting, this he promised to everyone.

Interesting video. Not much of a problem to me.

[Rugoz]

Liberalism is a cancer that needs to be eradicated from every society it gets a foothold within, destroys the very basis for any peaceful and prosperous civilization at it's foundation.

In Switzerland we had close to 200 years of liberalism and peace and prosperity.

[annatar1914]

In Switzerland we had close to 200 years of liberalism and peace and prosperity.

And for most of that time Switzerland was justifiably illiberal. I seem to recall also that Swiss military force makes it difficult for anyone outside Switzerland to make of with that wealth, although the terrain makes it difficult too.

[Rugoz]

And for most of that time Switzerland was justifiably illiberal. I seem to recall also that Swiss military force makes it difficult for anyone outside Switzerland to make of with that wealth, although the terrain makes it difficult too.

The composition of the federal council (the executive) since the foundation of modern Switzerland in 1848:


The liberals (FDP) had a majority or more for 100 years and the other parties aren't exactly illiberal either.

[annatar1914]

:eh:

The composition of the federal council (the executive) since the foundation of modern Switzerland in 1848:


The liberals (FDP) had a majority or more for 100 years and the other parties aren't exactly illiberal either.

Women weren't allowed to vote on a Federal Swiss level until 1971, and locally in all areas voting until 1989. And I suspect that the ''Liberals'' weren't very ''Liberal'' for much of that time by today's standards.

[Beren]

Unlike in the past, Russian elites - preoccupied, as they are, with their own problems - have not provided any support to Lukashenko this time around.

Russia has traditionally been a donor to the current Belarusian government, but with economic relations between the two countries tenser than ever, Russia has deprived Lukashenko of much-needed financial support at the moment when it is needed most.

Belarus should be part of the Russian Federation by now perhaps? It would make a new constitution even more opportune, I guess.

[JohnRawls]

Belarus should be part of the Russian Federation by now perhaps? It would make a new constitution even more opportune, I guess.

Lukashenko promised integration with Russia for the last 26 years since he became the leader of Belarus. But he didn't actually do it so Putin is telling him to fuck off of sorts. Nobody really asked the people by the way.

[JohnRawls]

Women weren't allowed to vote on a Federal Swiss level until 1971, and locally in all areas voting until 1989. And I suspect that the ''Liberals'' weren't very ''Liberal'' for much of that time by today's standards.

Liberalism changed over time. Ideologies are not static. America has been liberal for god knows how long now but they also had slavery and other horrible institutions or traditions can exist within liberalism and did exist. But same thing can be said for any ideology.

[Political Interest]

Liberalism changed over time. Ideologies are not static. America has been liberal for god knows how long now but they also had slavery and other horrible institutions or traditions can exist within liberalism and did exist. But same thing can be said for any ideology.

The liberalism you have in the former USSR and Warsaw Pact countries is for now a watered down version. You still have your national traditions and cultural conservatism to provide some balance.

I live in the West and do not have such luxuries. In fact liberalism is reaching such extremes that I fear for the future. That is why I am interested in different ideologies.

Or perhaps it is not so much a question of ideology as much as it is national history and cultural traditions that we have in the West.

In any case I do not want Russia as an enemy. It is simply a dead end.