Haaretz: America vs. China? In This New Cold War, The Choice Is No Longer Obvious - Page 2 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15108356
QatzelOk wrote:The USA puts a greater percent of its population in prison than any other dictatorship or democracy on Earth.

A filthy Marxist lie The international liberal lie machine keeps repeating this one.
#15108369
QatzelOk wrote:The USA puts a greater percent of its population in prison than any other dictatorship or democracy on Earth.


Well, if the US were to execute every drug dealer and put the rest in "reeducation" instead of prison, and generally adopt Chinese standards of legal process and punishment, that population would shrink drastically.

QatzelOk wrote:Indonesia and the Phillipines are good examples of capitalist Asian countries that contrast negatively with China or Vietnam - two communist countries whose governments are sworn to helping the vast majority of their populations.


If you think this is a comparison between capitalism and communism, you're delusional. They're all thoroughly capitalist. Vietnam doesn't particularly stand out in the region in terms of economic development or equality.
#15108446
Rugoz wrote:Well, if the US were to execute every drug dealer and put the rest in "reeducation" instead of prison, and generally adopt Chinese standards of legal process and punishment, that population would shrink drastically.

The USA puts black men into prison for smoking a joint, which is a very banal thing to do in the USA. Laws are different in every country on Earth.

You still can't explain why a much higher percent of people in the USA are in prison. In fact, what you wrote would suggest that China would have a higher percent (or number), but neither is true.


If you think this is a comparison between capitalism and communism, you're delusional. They're all thoroughly capitalist. Vietnam doesn't particularly stand out in the region in terms of economic development or equality.

The articles I quoted and provided links to earlier disagree with your opinion here. And your opinion here, is not followed up with a news article.
#15108580
Less talk, more action: Between Trump and Xi, the contrast is clear
As COVID-19 continues its devastating spread, two laws of nature are revealing themselves: The virus infects, and the U.S. deflects.

In a letter sent to the World Health Organization and posted online Monday, President Donald Trump gave the global health body a blistering ultimatum: agree to vague, undefined “improvements” within 30 days or lose its funding. As the U.S. is the WHO’s biggest contributor by far, this would strike a crippling blow to health systems all over the world.

It was a fiery broadside, unleashed at a time when the world is still reeling from the pandemic. The U.S. is no exception—in fact, it is still home to the largest outbreak on the planet. So the timing is counter-intuitive, to say the least. But the threat of de-funding and withdrawal was only the marquee offering; the undercard carried plenty of appeal for the baying jackals inside his administration looking for someone, anyone to blame besides themselves.

The letter was essentially a litany of allegations, each one more absurd than the last. Chief among them was the ridiculous assertion that reports of the virus’ spread in early December were ignored, both by China and the WHO. Trump mentioned The Lancet, a respected medical periodical, by name to bolster his argument.

That was one of many mistakes. In a refutation that must have been incredibly easy to write, the journal issued a categorical denial, pointing out their first piece on the virus was published Jan. 24.

But don’t feel too bad for Trump. We must remember he praised China’s epidemic response that same month, before a complete reversal later—coincidentally, just as the outbreak in the U.S. got worse. So it would seem chronology is not his strong suit.

The same day Trump posted his letter, Chinese President Xi Jinping gave a speech at the WHO’s governing World Health Assembly, providing the world with an undeniable contrast. Rather than blustery finger-pointing, Xi promised results. He pledged whenever China completed a vaccine, it would be a “global public good” and made available to all who need it. Xi also guaranteed $2 billion in funds to fight the virus, an eye-popping figure. In both announcements, he took care to emphasize developing countries as priority recipients.

Predictably, the U.S. press reacted with skepticism and scorn. Immediately after Xi’s speech, major media outlets painted the gestures as an attempt to “deflect criticism” and “save face” for what they deemed a botched response to the pandemic. Never mind that new daily cases remain in the low single digits here and the world was aware of the threat as early as January—it’s the media’s job to find an ulterior motive in China’s every deed. If they can’t, then they’ll just have to make one up.

This is the same strategy that’s used to undermine China’s donations of medical supplies to hard-hit countries, where nothing the country does can be seen as sincere. They won’t entertain the notion China is helping simply because it wants to. It must be the latest maneuver in a sinister plot, a dastardly scheme to make the Communist Party more popular by doing things people like. Looking at 70+ years of improved living standards, wages, and infrastructure in China, one can’t help but think U.S. workers facing a steady decline in all three might want such a conspiracy for themselves.

In any case, I doubt these ludicrous charges will stick. Xi has put forward bold, unambiguously good proposals. They will go a long way toward inoculating the world against a deadly pandemic and treating those afflicted with the disease, especially in Global South countries with overburdened health systems.

Besides, at the moment it’s unlikely many are paying attention to narratives conjured up by the Western press. Does an ICU patient on the brink of death care where their ventilator came from? Would they lodge a complaint if they found out the ECMO machine filling in for their heart and lungs had a “Made in China” stamp? I think not.

But let’s talk about what we’re really talking about. These countries are exploited due to policies of deliberate underdevelopment, centuries of resource extraction, and an economic system that arbitrages wages to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. China’s $2 billion pledge will be an incredible boon for these vulnerable peoples, but the more advanced economies of the world—neocolonial powers, in less polite language—have a responsibility to pay as well. That the U.S. refuses even to match its previous levels of WHO contribution and has now threatened to leave the organization entirely, tells you how seriously that obligation is being taken.

The U.S. can talk a big game about its supposed “rules-based international order,” but actions speak louder than words. Hijacking medical supplies earmarked for other countries isn’t leadership, and neither is refusing to share vaccine data. All this does is set back the global effort to find a cure. That means more infections and more deaths, which are then used as political props to slander China. The cycle continues, and ordinary people suffer for it.

Tragic though it may be, this situation has revealed the emptiness of the high-minded rhetoric used by the U.S. to justify its place atop the global pecking order. As the increasing desperation of its attacks on China and the WHO shows, the U.S. government doesn’t give a whit about cooperation.
https://peoplesworld.org/article/less-t ... -is-clear/
#15108584
Oh, I would be very glad when the title of "global conflict zone" is handed over to Asia-Pacific by Middle East.

Suck it Taiwan, Japan, Korea, Philippines, etc! It's your turn!

And, patiently yet assuredly, I will be waiting for the day to say "F*CK YOU!", when western pundits, politicians and warmongers upgrade their "Judeo-Christian tradition" slogan into "Abrahamic Civilization". :lol:

Come the dawn! 8)
#15108903
QatzelOk wrote:In fact, what you wrote would suggest that China would have a higher percent (or number), but neither is true.


Read again.

QatzelOk wrote:The articles I quoted and provided links to earlier disagree with your opinion here. And your opinion here, is not followed up with a news article.


It's based on official GDP and inequality statistics (Gini). Your "news articles" from conspiracy theory sites are not worth reading.
#15108972
Rugoz wrote:Read again.Your "news articles" from conspiracy theory sites are not worth reading.

Rugoz, nothing is worth reading if you are just protecting your own self-interest.

I have absolutely no skin in this game. I don't live in Asia, and don't prefer one Asian government style over another. That I shared two articles from different sources that mention that Vietnam, China, and Kerala were much better organized for a social response against a social trauma than the capitalist countries they mention (Indonesia, Thailand, Laos) means that I have provided 100% more backup than you have.

Your "point" seems to hinge on whether or not I am a good person, rather than whether or not that articles had useful information in them.

If you want to make this all about "me," try to find me on Facebook. That's the more appropriate venue for character assasination, and no one expects any substance in your "arguments" there.
#15109137
skinster wrote:Ad-homs is all these people have, Qatz. How is it that so many grown men(apparently) on this board, some who've been here for many years, think calling someone names = anything but displaying their own childishness / political immaturity? :lol:

I think it's because we all grow up with the "put-down" humor of commercial media comedy.

This leads many people to "enact" the same joke structures with their friends, families, and online. I grew up with this kind of humor being regurgitated all around me, and it's sad that people don't realize how empty this is.

What people are actually doing when they imitate mass media is they are losing the ability to live a real life with real conversations by mimicking something fake and manipulative that has been produced to manipulate them.

This same "fake life" media has sold us "America: Taste the Difference!" for 70 years, and made all the other countries of the Earth look inferior.
#15109151
skinster wrote:I mean, I don't mind cussing and whatever and do do it, but on-topic issues, such as re: China right now, you have the whiners crying with ad-homs. It was like that at the beginning re: the war on Syria, although the ad-hom at the time only really amounted to ASSADIST! These people are laughably pathetic. :D

If you want to see how generally empty political discussion is in mass media, you just have to look at Bari Weiss, who made an entire career as an "opinion" writer by regurgitating smears of "yucky people" she heard from other people "at the office."

Her repeating inane, thoghtless things like: "Tulsi Gabbard is an Assad toady" isn't very different from adolescents (and perma-adolescents) regurgitating "put-down" jokes stolen from sit-coms.
#15109763
How would you see the America-China cold war play out in the Asia Pacific region? During the American-Soviet cold war, it was all about these two big boys protecting their allies and client states and preventing the other from encroaching into their respective turfs.

The Chinese have never had a colonial past unlike the western powers. The Malay, Thai, Burmese, Vietnamese polities had existed and flourished in China's backyard for many centuries. Somehow I don't see them having intentions to intervene militarily in these smaller ASEAN states. Sure there might be some small overlapping claims on the Spratly Islands but it seems unlikely in the near future that a conflict will break out.
#15109767
fenster_84 wrote:The Chinese have never had a colonial past unlike the western powers. The Malay, Thai, Burmese, Vietnamese polities had existed and flourished in China's backyard for many centuries. Somehow I don't see them having intentions to intervene militarily in these smaller ASEAN states. Sure there might be some small overlapping claims on the Spratly Islands but it seems unlikely in the near future that a conflict will break out.


1. The Chinese colonies are more like Jewish colonies in Palestine and the Chinese usually end up directly annexing them into the (contiguous) Chinese state.

2. The Chinese population settling in Southeast Asia are essentially leaving China and do not see themselves representing their governments (Imperial Court).

3. I am afraid the "intervene militarily" speculation is inaccurate. China did fight with Vietnam and almost fought the Philippines a few years ago.

4. Although I do agree that the most probable place of fight (one initiated by CCP that is) would be Taiwan.
#15109774
Patrickov wrote:1. The Chinese colonies are more like Jewish colonies in Palestine and the Chinese usually end up directly annexing them into the (contiguous) Chinese state.

2. The Chinese population settling in Southeast Asia are essentially leaving China and do not see themselves representing their governments (Imperial Court).

3. I am afraid the "intervene militarily" speculation is inaccurate. China did fight with Vietnam and almost fought the Philippines a few years ago.

4. Although I do agree that the most probable place of fight (one initiated by CCP that is) would be Taiwan.



2. I wonder how the Chinese in Singapore and Malaysia will change in relation to China's rise. They haven't abandon their Chinese heritage. You might see on the surface they have embraced western values but dig deeper you see all their Chinese character coming out. Indonesian and Thai Chinese have assimilated into their host cultures. Perhaps these overseas Chinese will resist encroachment as what we've seen in Hong Kong recently.

3. Yes the occasional border/territorial skirmishes from time to time. I was comparing to a more prolonged campaign such as America's Vietnam or Soviet's Afghanistan.

4. It seems that Taiwan will be China's Cuba. Imagine the US trying to put nukes there and a "Taiwan Missile Crisis" will happen.
#15109797
fenster_84 wrote:I wonder how the Chinese in Singapore and Malaysia will change in relation to China's rise. They haven't abandon their Chinese heritage. You might see on the surface they have embraced western values but dig deeper you see all their Chinese character coming out. Indonesian and Thai Chinese have assimilated into their host cultures. Perhaps these overseas Chinese will resist encroachment as what we've seen in Hong Kong recently.


In some sense yes. They would be happy to keep themselves as "agents" on the trade route to / from China, but relatively free from direct interference from Chinese authorities.

Still, in my opinion, for the Southeast Asian countries' case, Western values like "freedom" may take a relatively minor role. Ethnically mixed countries like the Philippines, Malaysia and Indonesia have their own problems to solve; while more ethnically homogeneous ones like Singapore, Thailand, Cambodia and Vietnam seem not very "free" to begin with.


fenster_84 wrote:Yes the occasional border/territorial skirmishes from time to time. I was comparing to a more prolonged campaign such as America's Vietnam or Soviet's Afghanistan.

It seems that Taiwan will be China's Cuba. Imagine the US trying to put nukes there and a "Taiwan Missile Crisis" will happen.


I can only say the Chinese was not very experienced in prolonged external conflicts. Apart from the Second Sino-Japanese war, no external war with China taking part really lasted for more than a decade. All prolonged wars in China were essentially civil wars, like the unification wars of most Imperial Dynasties and the Taiping Rebellion. Even most other wars in China were rather "blitz".

Still, Taiwan missile crisis might mean the end of the world as we know it. I really don't see the current Chinese leadership as cool-headed as the Americans or even Russians, because they have made a considerable part of population quite hysterical, as seen in the following propaganda:

#15110466
Code Rood wrote:I've been talking about the bold part for quite some time now. The international clique is almost done with the USA as the superpower. Pretty much anything of importance has been squeezed out of that place. The USA has served its purpose. The Stalinist wet dream, a Pan-Eurasian Kalergi Superstate, being ruled from Jerusalem, is what they really want.



:lol: Jews are always to blame? :lol:
So the Left thinks the Jews are to blame for the current system, the Right thinks the Jews are to blame for the changing of the current system.... :lol:
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