Estonia “set to reject” Chinese-backed Tunnel-to-Helsinki Plan - Page 3 - Politics Forum.org | PoFo

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#15111718
I have already mentioned that Russia is part of the West and that if China goes close to the spot of global leader we will be able to rely on our Russian friends to be our allies on the new long cold road ahead. Your article confirms this in the best way possible. Thanks for sharing it. You will not find articles like these in the western press but the Japanese are a lot more honest, have more balls and have an interest in the game too, reading that article is merely prepping people for precisely this next battle ground against China while telling the Japanese that even Russia will stand with them if China creeps too close to the top spot by trying to overstep her limits. That is wonderful.

And of course we can rely on Russia as they are neighbours with China and they will be the first to fall when China takes the spot of the US as Russia has the space the Chinese require to expand. The Russians know this and everyone can understand it.

China is an extremely dangerous player for everyone. It is in fact astonishing that despite their well-organised buying sprees, steel dumping, Uighurs and Hong Kong the west has still not got a unified front against her belligerent attempts against us. They are not even afraid to show us that they are enemies and like many others they are testing our resilience and patience. The more we fail to respond the harder they will keep on hitting us.
#15111810
China isn't everyone's enemy though, a lot of states have good relations with it, including Russia.

noemon wrote:Uighurs,


The Chinese are not oppressing Uighurs in the way you imagine and the West doesn't care about Muslims.

The fact that Hong Kong deserves its own self-determination


Hong Kong is a part of China. It was never two countries one system, but one country with two systems. But that's changing.
#15111817
skinster wrote:


Hong Kong is a part of China. It was never two countries one system, but one country with two systems. But that's changing.


You don't deserve self-determination and any vote after those words nor the right to protest then.
#15111897
Remember when the CCP discovered there were poisonous chemicals in baby formula and didn't warn anyone because it didn't want any negative headlines during the Olympics? These are people who'd stand and watch babies die in order to save face.
#15111946
skinster wrote:Hong Kong is a part of China. It was never two countries one system, but one country with two systems. But that's changing.


The question should be why one country two systems had to be done in the first place.

My answer is: Even Deng Xiaoping knew that imposing their way here was not gonna work.

However,
1. Deng, or more accurately, his successors, especially Xi Jinping, see this as merely a stopover so that they can still impose their ways later.
2. Some Westerners and ongkongers, on the other hand, see this as a time buffer and wish that China would change its way before the 50 year-limit is over.

One may argue that when China finds out Hongkongers are going for 2, they eventually stop pretending. To some Hongkongers (including a portion of those born or coming after 1997), this defeats the legitimacy of "Hong Kong is a part of China", and thus the "unspeakable" starts.

While I have repeatedly stated that "it" is not the answer, China really cannot blame anybody but itself for having that thing happening in the first place.
#15112039
AFAIK wrote:Remember when the CCP discovered there were poisonous chemicals in baby formula and didn't warn anyone because it didn't want any negative headlines during the Olympics? These are people who'd stand and watch babies die in order to save face.


The Chinese government executed and imprisoned - some for life - those responsible which doesn't actually sound like standing by watching babies die.
#15112110
I have been thinking about this for quite a few years. My position has always been that China must be left to develop peacefully. Chinese sovereignty and territorial integrity must be respected. There should not be interference in Chinese internal affairs.

At the same time Chinese influence must be contained to the Asia-Pacific region and the Chinese must not be allowed to gain influence in the Mediterranean or the Middle East.

Chinese state firms have no business investing in European countries. If China develops entrenched investments and economic interests in Europe what follows will be political will in Beijing to defend these diplomatically and militarily. The result will be more Chinese influence in European affairs and I do not believe China fundamentally respects Europe enough to use such influence in the best interests of the latter. China has not forgotten the humiliations imposed on it by the Western powers in the 1800s.

This is not an anti-Chinese position. The Chinese should be free to choose their own type of government. Their internal affairs are theirs to manage and their sovereignty and territorial integrity must be respected without question. Europe and America should not interfere in internal Chinese affairs.
#15112119
Political Interest wrote:The Chinese should be free to choose their own type of government.


Unfortunately this is not what's happening.

In some sense, this being "an internal affair" is a fantasy at best. The majority of people having no means to even "feel" they are free means stability would be a concern sooner or later, and many countries face serious refugee problems at different points of history because of this.

Don't get me wrong, China could also be on the receiving end. They used to make the Yalu River a barren border comparable to the Berlin Wall, not without a reason.
#15112122
Patrickov wrote:
Unfortunately this is not what's happening.

In some sense, this being "an internal affair" is a fantasy at best. The majority of people having no means to even "feel" they are free means stability would be a concern sooner or later, and many countries face serious refugee problems at different points of history because of this.

Don't get me wrong, China could also be on the receiving end. They used to make the Yalu River a barren border comparable to the Berlin Wall, not without a reason.


Through the 20th century China did not produce many refugees in spite of suffering several revolutions, famines and wars.

Only the Chinese can choose what form of government they want to rule their country. The interference of foreign powers in China's political choices will deprive any opposition of legitimacy.

Remember, the communists were successful in large part because they were patriots. In actual reality they didn't even have much material support from the Soviet Union until the 1940s.
#15112161
Political Interest wrote:Remember, the communists were successful in large part because they were patriots. In actual reality they didn't even have much material support from the Soviet Union until the 1940s.


Most believe CCP are just patriots on the mouth, and they care their own asses more. Even Xi Jinping sent his daughter to the United States at one point.

In terms of international relationship the CCP more or less act as the second to USSR and Russia, especially after the collapse of USSR.

Also, for all the territorial "loss" in the 19th Century, the CCP has the weakest stance towards those lost to Russia (and that comprises of the biggest lot), although one might argue that they did fight the USSR in 1969.

Conclusion: CCP are patriotic my ass.

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