[Finfinder]

Don't both parties basically bypass the constitution as much as they can?

One thing that is true is that politicians and people are only constitutionalists when it's convenient to them.

No both parties do not because the courts are stacked to the left. Why do you think every single executive order on immigration was shot down until it got to the Supreme Court? This is how the liberals have tried to reduce the power of the executive branch and the will of the people. After all immigration reform was a big reason whyTrump was elected in the first place. The Republicans are just too much of pussies to use the courts in the same way.

[Rancid]

No both parties do not because the courts are stacked to the left. Why do you think every single executive order on immigration was shot down until it got to the Supreme Court? This is how the liberals have tried to reduce the power of the executive branch and the will of the people. After all immigration reform was a big reason whyTrump was elected in the first place. The Republicans are just too much of pussies to use the courts in the same way.

Has immigration been reformed?

[Rugoz]

This is all a function of how the current economic system works, and not really anything specific and R or D can do. The most you could argue is that an R or D could reduce/accelerate this process, but fundamentally, it's a train that can't be stopped.

This is a lie. With a moderate wealth tax you could easily stop the increase in wealth inequality for example.

Furthermore, the US has one of the highest income inequalities before taxes and transfers. The market outcome itself is a lot more unequal than in many other places.

[Rancid]

This is a lie. With a moderate wealth tax you could easily stop the increase in wealth inequality for example.

Furthermore, the US has one of the highest income inequalities before taxes and transfers. The market outcome itself is a lot more unequal than in many other places.

I guess the communist would argue, that the wealth tax would only slow down the inevitable self destruction.

I'll post the same question to you. Sounds like you think capitalism can be be changed/evolved to deal with its current problems?

[Finfinder]

Has immigration been reformed?

You tell me did you not understand the overall point? What specifically besides the word “reform” do you take issue with? I assumed you understood that the Republicans failed when they had the majority of the Congress and the Democrats have decided to not have any agenda other than an anti-trump fake Russian impeachment, open boarders, and take legal executive branch decisions to friendly courts, only to be overturned at the highest levels.

[jimjam]

Yes rich get richer quicker then others.... nothing wrong with that.

bullshit straight from the mouth of Rush Limberg. Not even close to the point. we are discussing income shift.

[jimjam]

“The billionaire economy has been turbocharged by policymakers, who are now stalling on relief for the real economy,” said Chuck Collins, director of the Institute for Policy Studies’ Program on Inequality and co-author of the Billionaire Bonanza 2020 report. “The difference is stark between profits for billionaires and the widespread economic misery in our nation. Clearly, the priorities of elected officials in Washington, DC are completely upside down.”

Modern-day robber baron Elon Musk increased his wealth by $10.3 billion yesterday. At the same time, 30 million jobless Americans were denied $600 in benefits, 23 million have no health insurance, and 13 million are hungry.

American capitalism is off the rails.

[skinster]

Well then your point is dumb because while there is a lot of overlap there are crucial differences in many key areas.

Both parties serve the same corporations and that billionaire in power right now that you cheerlead for is in the same team as all of them, he doesn't care about people like you. At all. If he did, he'd give the people trillions or maybe even just medicare, but he gave those trillions a few months ago to corporations who quite clearly need that money huh, under the cover of the covid pandemic. Sorry these facts get in the way of your delusions, maybe stop watching Alex Jones and take a tab of acid instead.

It's not me who's "dumb" on this, you think all of a sudden because they've changed the distraction to not being black or not saying dumb things like GWB, that this new act is legit and anyone in U.S. power actually cares about working people. The system saw after Obama that people knew they were tricked and there was no hope or any real change, so they ran on the idea that there was a politician within the system who hated the system, despite very much being a part of it and showing us that throughout these last four years. You're being played, Sivad. SAD!

[Rugoz]

I guess the communist would argue, that the wealth tax would only slow down the inevitable self destruction.

I'll post the same question to you. Sounds like you think capitalism can be be changed/evolved to deal with its current problems?

Of course. Those problems are less severe in other countries to begin with. It's politics.

[Rancid]

Of course. Those problems are less severe in other countries to begin with. It's politics.

If you were king of western democracy, what would you do?

[Oxymoron]

This gap widening would be happening regardless of an R or D in the whorehouse. I think that's what some of our Trumpsters are missing here.

This is all a function of how the current economic system works, and not really anything specific and R or D can do. The most you could argue is that an R or D could reduce/accelerate this process, but fundamentally, it's a train that can't be stopped.

Unless.... a communist revolution.

I would like to see the communists start one so we can finally annihilate this disease in this country, one bullet at a time.

[Oxymoron]

bullshit straight from the mouth of Rush Limberg. Not even close to the point. we are discussing income shift.

Income shift from low skill, to people with high skill.
More technology develops the more of a shift it will be... yes motherfuckers learn to code

[JohnRawls]

Source



Yet some will still look at this and somehow manage to claim Trump is doing great things for working people.

While Trump is not doing anything much about it, it still is something that his existence brought to light. So kudos and respect to Trump for that. The problem with this situation is that this has a lot to do with modern corporatist culture and the financial market. While this process existed even before those became a thing, the distribution was more reasonable. Basically what I am trying to say is that this is a modern problem of capitalism that grew out of the inherent capitalist model. Also it is the underlying cause for the rise of Trump and other alt-right/ring wing groups nowadays all across the world. I view it as a process of self-correction of sorts. What will this be exactly in the end, is hard to say. Will we revert back to after WW2 kind of capitalism? Perhaps but that is probably not the only possible solution.

[KurtFF8]

While Trump is not doing anything much about it, it still is something that his existence brought to light. So kudos and respect to Trump for that. The problem with this situation is that this has a lot to do with modern corporatist culture and the financial market. While this process existed even before those became a thing, the distribution was more reasonable. Basically what I am trying to say is that this is a modern problem of capitalism that grew out of the inherent capitalist model. Also it is the underlying cause for the rise of Trump and other alt-right/ring wing groups nowadays all across the world. I view it as a process of self-correction of sorts. What will this be exactly in the end, is hard to say. Will we revert back to after WW2 kind of capitalism? Perhaps but that is probably not the only possible solution.

I hardly think that Trump "brought to light" any of this stuff. Inequality was already a major issue, even in the 2016 elections.

[JohnRawls]

I hardly think that Trump "brought to light" any of this stuff. Inequality was already a major issue, even in the 2016 elections.

Yes inequality has always existed. It is inherent to any social-political-economic structure that we have and probably will have, even communism. The difference is how it is addressed and what is considered to be reasonable.

Since the end of the cold war, the situation has been getting worse and worse due to the absence of communist or any ideological alternatives to liberal democratic system. This means though that the situation doesn't have to be as it is right now if it was better before. We had similar shifts during the 1900,1910s,1920s etc. But after the great depression and World War 2 the capitalist system became more equal.

What Trump did, was bring up all of that rage up regarding this inequality. As time went by nobody really cared about it increasing at such a rapid rate compared to the past. Now we have what we have and our politicians stand at a simple choice: either do something about it or loose power and be supplanted by somebody else. Who that somebody else will be is hard to say. Will the alt-right do it? Will the communists/socialists solve their economic ideas and bring communism v2.0? Will it be the libertarians? People will accept it, as long as the life improves, the work is there and general wellbeing increases. Whoever can deliver that, will get their 20-30 years in power after we self-correct fully.

[Rancid]

Yes inequality has always existed. It is inherent to any social-political-economic structure that we have and probably will have, even communism. The difference is how it is addressed and what is considered to be reasonable.

Since the end of the cold war, the situation has been getting worse and worse due to the absence of communist or any ideological alternatives to liberal democratic system. This means though that the situation doesn't have to be as it is right now if it was better before. We had similar shifts during the 1900,1910s,1920s etc. But after the great depression and World War 2 the capitalist system became more equal.

What Trump did, was bring up all of that rage up regarding this inequality. As time went by nobody really cared about it increasing at such a rapid rate compared to the past. Now we have what we have and our politicians stand at a simple choice: either do something about it or loose power and be supplanted by somebody else. Who that somebody else will be is hard to say. Will the alt-right do it? Will the communists/socialists solve their economic ideas and bring communism v2.0? Will it be the libertarians? People will accept it, as long as the life improves, the work is there and general wellbeing increases. Whoever can deliver that, will get their 20-30 years in power after we self-correct fully.

It's time for communism with Chinese characteristics. That's a quote from Xi Jingping by the way.

Side note:
This is largely sarcastic, but the funny thing is, if the west somehow started to operate more like China, that would actually remove China's leverage.

[JohnRawls]

It's time for communism with Chinese characteristics. That's a quote from Xi Jingping by the way.

Side note:
This is largely sarcastic, but the funny thing is, if the west somehow started to operate more like China, that would actually remove China's leverage.

Yes and no. Yes in sense that you are correct and no in sense that it can't be done. Limited access to our internal market will just hurt us economically in the end. We can start doing selectively but not overall like China does. Otherwise the West will become no more. This would destroy China and many other places of the world though.

[KurtFF8]

Yes inequality has always existed. It is inherent to any social-political-economic structure that we have and probably will have, even communism. The difference is how it is addressed and what is considered to be reasonable.

Since the end of the cold war, the situation has been getting worse and worse due to the absence of communist or any ideological alternatives to liberal democratic system. This means though that the situation doesn't have to be as it is right now if it was better before. We had similar shifts during the 1900,1910s,1920s etc. But after the great depression and World War 2 the capitalist system became more equal.

Yes, I agree with this. I wasn't disputing any of these things.

What Trump did, was bring up all of that rage up regarding this inequality. As time went by nobody really cared about it increasing at such a rapid rate compared to the past. Now we have what we have and our politicians stand at a simple choice: either do something about it or loose power and be supplanted by somebody else. Who that somebody else will be is hard to say. Will the alt-right do it? Will the communists/socialists solve their economic ideas and bring communism v2.0? Will it be the libertarians? People will accept it, as long as the life improves, the work is there and general wellbeing increases. Whoever can deliver that, will get their 20-30 years in power after we self-correct fully.

This is what I disagree with. Specifically to the political scene in the US: by the time Trump was even a viable candidate, wealth inequality was already a major political issue. The Occupy Wall St movement, for example, helped to make it one of the major issues of the day.

Bernie Sanders campaign was only viable because these kinds of issues were being brought to the forefront. Even Trump tried to play on working class attitudes towards the rich (although with less success than he's usually given credit to be honest).

It's certainly a less stable moment in American politics of course, which means that ideas that were considered "un-American" (like giving people health insurance) are now mainstream again.

[B0ycey]

Low skill Workers should not expect to grow much with the economy, as they are easily replaceable.

Funny. We in the UK were clapping for low paid workers. Seems under a crisis, the carer, postman, lorry driver, nurse and supermarket operator are more important to society than the CEO. Although it has been outsourcing for greater profits rather than skill levels being why wages have stagnated and once upon a time a family only needed one breadwinner.

But I digest, eventually if the cost of living exceeds wages to such an extent as seems to be happening in the US looking at the current trend, all that will do is cause dissent looting and eventually bringing down the establishment soon enough. It is only when the working class understand their class distinction and their numbers will the power evolve from the elite to the ordinary man.

[Oxymoron]

Funny. We in the UK were clapping for low paid workers. Seems under a crisis, the carer, postman, lorry driver, nurse and supermarket operator are more important to society than the CEO. Although it has been outsourcing for greater profits rather than skill levels being why wages have stagnated and once upon a time a family only needed one breadwinner.

But I digest, eventually if the cost of living exceeds wages to such an extent as seems to be happening in the US looking at the current trend, all that will do is cause dissent looting and eventually bringing down the establishment soon enough. It is only when the working class understand their class distinction and their numbers will the power evolve from the elite to the ordinary man.

During a Crisis, you need people who organize these people.. the actual people are easily replaceable aside Skilled workers like Firemen, Nurses, Doctors and Police men.